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Hillsborough & Morgan St


Beth Y

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The article says that it will incorporate the IHOP, which means that it is not being torn down, but rather, having the development built around it and possibly its exterior renovated to blend it in with the new buildings. Certainly a much needed project for this area!

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I can't seem to reconcile what Zanoni does with what he says. He's an assembler, not a developer from what I know. 712 Tucker was built by people who do almost only residential rentals. The Bolton Property definitely needs help and is key to this whole area. Not having seen any of FMW's final products, I worry about the final product.

Oh, and if you ever go to Jackpot, you know the hipsters almost never go to IHOP...that is the land of glenwood overflow....jackpot people are heading straight to the latenights,

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While I'm all for taking the old warehouses and Bolton buildings, I'm sad to see other parts not renovated instead of just being torn down. But maybe that's too much to ask. The green house behind Jackpot is probably beyond repair at this point I'm guessing. The apartment building that Jade Garden is in...that could be saved seeing as it's sturdy brick and mortar. And the architectural details on the frontage of the upper floors is pretty well-done. I hope they consider renovating that.

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While I'm all for taking the old warehouses and Bolton buildings, I'm sad to see other parts not renovated instead of just being torn down. But maybe that's too much to ask. The green house behind Jackpot is probably beyond repair at this point I'm guessing. The apartment building that Jade Garden is in...that could be saved seeing as it's sturdy brick and mortar. And the architectural details on the frontage of the upper floors is pretty well-done. I hope they consider renovating that.

FMW owns neither the 3-story building on the corner of Ashe and Hillsborogh, nor the 1-story building with Jade Garden and Cycle Logic, nor the parking lot next to Jade Garden. So we can be pretty sure those buildings will stay.

But as I mentioned, I wish FMW DID own the Jade Garden parking lot. When the roundabout is done, that will be the most prominent corner on the block; if it's not included in FMW's project it will probably forever remain a parking lot since it's too small to redevelop on its own.

I don't particularly care for the Jade Garden or Cycle Logic building, but the businesses are priceless to the area.

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I don't particularly care for the Jade Garden or Cycle Logic building, but the businesses are priceless to the area.

I think that we're on the same page orulz. I hate seeing areas in the core of the city, that are also prime spots for retail, go underutilized. That area desperately needs more retail, and with its proximity to Glenwood South, new apartments and condos, businesses, and colleges, this could be a booming retail district as long as there is the right mix of businesses.

I totally welcome the wrecking ball.

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I think that we're on the same page orulz. I hate seeing areas in the core of the city, that are also prime spots for retail, go underutilized. That area desperately needs more retail, and with its proximity to Glenwood South, new apartments and condos, businesses, and colleges, this could be a booming retail district as long as there is the right mix of businesses.

I totally welcome the wrecking ball.

I hope that the development will include a variety of businesses. What's great about this ares is the mixture of housing type and the ability to attract people from different backgrounds. If done right, this may be a good spot to put in a grocery. The grocery chains really need to step up their game with smaller formats. Take the salad bar, deli, and bakery from harris teeter; put in the drink station from sheetz; put it in a format similar to a cvs (one of those big dollar trees) and you're easily drawing in people for multiple things.

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The Green House (a Briggs family house) is trying to find a home. Preservation NC is working hard to get someone to take it. I tried getting Blount Street Commons interested but they were in no shape to pay for the move. Would have been a great fit over there. The building that has the convenience store is a treasure and only needs a landlord that gives a crap. The one with Cycle Logic I *think* has a hundred year old building beneath the plaster and 1950's crank windows, based on an old pic I stumbled across. Both these would benefit from having hundreds of customers living behind them. Anything FMW does will not have great street frontage for new shops in phase I...the Morgan front might work, but the Ashe frontage would be better served with residential stoops. I would be for moving the Green House and putting in a nice mid-rise from Ashe to Park...say 4-5 stories ala Tucker but with commercial space on the ground floor facing Hillsborough Street for phase II.

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This brings up another subject. There are a bunch of undistinguished 1-2 story 60's-70's commercial buildings along the north side of Hillsborough from Crest to Oberlin. (Across from the Holiday Inn, YMCA, and Velvet Cloak.) Is there any reason those couldn't be torn down and replaced with 4-5 story buildings with ground floor retail? There are a few historic homes still there I'm certainly fine with keeping them, but the ones where they've already been replaced with cheezy commercial structures should get something better. Raleigh has very little in the way of urban corridors, Hillsborough should be one.

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^ You can thank Cameron Park for the low density, and you can thank politicians and their willingness to rezone for their friends who owned a lot of this strip for having this zoning to begin with which allowed the wrecking of about a dozen of the finest gingerbread homes this city had. The south side of Hillsborough lost about 20-30 such homes. The big oak tree in front of Velvet Cloak would have been in one those front yards and you can still most of driveway cuts and clay storm pipes from these homes. The part of the Flint Street right of way is still there though the Y has managed to make it look they own it and another dozen homes were lost there too.

Flint Street Zoom out once to see it.

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Nice job DPK on putting that together. I'd guess they probably also have some type of "option" on some of the surrounding properties. That key little square piece in the middle is owned by 1215 Hillsborough Street LLC and they appear to own a few other adjacent properties.

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Nice job DPK on putting that together. I'd guess they probably also have some type of "option" on some of the surrounding properties. That key little square piece in the middle is owned by 1215 Hillsborough Street LLC and they appear to own a few other adjacent properties.

Here's an updated version which highlights various properties of interest around the FMW sites. There's about five groups of people that FMW would have to contend with that would help them unify their project. What's interesting is that 1215 Hillsborough LLC (orange on map) has 4 properties (there's a sliver along the north of one of their sites by St. Mary's School) and of those 4, only 1 has any development on it (at Ashe and Hillsborough). The other 3 are portions of parking lots.

BUpgt.png

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Hey Jones, not to hijack the thread, but what is the "Tryon Hill" of "Tryon Hill Drive" refer to? I've noticed it is sort of uphill as you walk up that street away from Irregardless...was there once some grand estate where that street deadends at the top of the hill?

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I remember when it was Tryon Street. I believe it was changed because there was address confusion with Tryon Road, after the city annexed down to Tryon Road. Both are in the 27603 zip code, and the USPS had some confusion. So they modified the name of the smaller of the two, to keep it more clear.

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Hey Jones, not to hijack the thread, but what is the "Tryon Hill" of "Tryon Hill Drive" refer to? I've noticed it is sort of uphill as you walk up that street away from Irregardless...was there once some grand estate where that street deadends at the top of the hill?

Sanborn 1914 Sheet 74 (St Marys Area).pdf

Here is the 1914 Sanborn of the area. The only house visible (that I am familiar with) is the Cameron estate. Earlier Sanborns don't go this far west and I have not researched the area well. It does look like the Harrison/Tryon intersection was a subdivided chunk of land, though it could just as easily be Cameron heirs trying to make some cash as it is that it was a separate antebellum mansion. Cameron Park across the street and Boylan Heights were both just beginning around the time of this map as the city pushed west along the trolley line to fill the gap towards NC State. Mr Brown may be able to lend some insight. I know Confederate General William Ruffin Cox had an estate where Cox avenue is and that Avent Ferry Road used to bend south from Hillsborough Street here and pick up where Ashe Ave is around Wake Drive, so it seems logical an estate fronting Avent Ferry here would have filled the gap between the Cox and Cameron estates.

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The article says that it will incorporate the IHOP, which means that it is not being torn down, but rather, having the development built around it and possibly its exterior renovated to blend it in with the new buildings. Certainly a much needed project for this area!

glad to hear the ihop will be around in some form

i'm one of the 'local hipsters' from the second post

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Seems to me that's not so much a site plan as a survey of what's currently there.

It says on it the sole purpose was to show the 4 or so other surveys on a single plat. Its definitely dated as two of the houses shown on Ashe have already been torn down including the cool stone one.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 5 months later...

The FMW project successfully got the land rezoned and continues to move forward:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/10/20/750348/land-near-ncsu-rezoned-for-mixed.html

Also looks like they're still buying up even more land in that area. This project is going to be massive if it does keep step with what they plan to do. I also like how the city basically made the developer promise not to "cheap out" on materials used.

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