PSC Metals scrap yard

[markhollin]

What folks need to remember is that PSC is only part of the challenge for that site.  CITGO Petroleum controls several acres right next to the river and KVB, including 5 large oil/fuel tanks.  And O'Neal Steel controls at least 5 acres that butts up against KVB between 1st and 2nd streets (see the screen shot from Smeagolsfree's excellent development map below) . I would think that, long-term, we would want to see the massive warehouse further east along the river that houses Music City Indoor Karting and Nashville Airsoft, would have to go as well in order to fully beautify/modernize the riverfront.

My dream is that entire area would be home for the state-of-the-art retractable roof football stadium/entertainment district (including many large garages that would be wrapped with at least street-level activation, and in many cases hotels, multi-level restaurants, etc) that would allow Nashville to become a fairly regular host of Super Bowls, NCAA Final Fours, year-round major concerts, huge conventions, etc.  Once it was complete, then Nissan Stadium would come down, and a major league baseball stadium would be built in its place facing across the Cumberland for a view that would rival Pittsburgh's PNC Park as it looks across the Allegheny River towards  the Golden Triangle. Both facilities would share the same parking garages. Of course, the new Titans football stadium would be about a decade off, and the baseball stadium a few years after that...so we'll have to see what the city's appetite would be for those sorts of financial outlays, and if a MLB franchise would be willing to relocate here (would think that Oakland and Tampa Bay would still be likely candidates down the road).

 

[Pdt2f]

It seems appealing but I just don’t want any more big stadiums with massive parking lot deserts in the core. TBH I’d rather a new retractable roof stadium be built somewhere else in Davidson and the land where Nissan stadium currently is be developed to bridge the chasm between east Nashville and downtown. Nissan stadium was supposed to spur development on the east bank, but I honestly think it’s holding that area back. 

[japan]

2 hours ago, markhollin said:

What folks need to remember is that PSC is only part of the challenge for that site.  CITGO Petroleum controls several acres right next to the river and KVB, including 5 large oil/fuel tanks.  And O'Neal Steel controls at least 5 acres that butts up against KVB between 1st and 2nd streets (see the screen shot from Smeagolsfree's excellent development map below) . I would think that, long-term, we would want to see the massive warehouse further east along the river that houses Music City Indoor Karting and Nashville Airsoft, would have to go as well in order to fully beautify/modernize the riverfront.

My dream is that entire area would be home for the state-of-the-art retractable roof football stadium/entertainment district that would allow Nashville to become a fairly regular host of Super Bowls, NCAA Final Fours, year-round major concerts, huge conventions, etc.  Once it was complete, then Nissan Stadium would come down, and a major league baseball stadium would be built in its place facing across the Cumberland for a view that would rival Pittsburgh's PNC Park as it looks across the Allegheny River towards  the Golden Triangle. Of course, the new Titans football stadium would be about a decade off, and the baseball stadium a few years after that...so we'll have to see what the city's appetite would be for those sorts of financial outlays, and if a MLB franchise would be willing to relocate here (would think that Oakland and Tampa Bay would still be likely candidates down the road).

 

How did we get all of those businesses to move when we built the stadium or the conversion center?  The sticking point here is Icahn being a hard-ass and not a guy the city wants to tangle with.  These other businesses would go a lot easier in my opinion.

Edited June 2, 2018 by japan

[TNinVB]

My question is even if these buildings were to go, how long would it be before the land could be developed because of the heavy industrial sites that are there now. Wouldn’t the land have to be cleaned and checked for contamination? 

[MLBrumby]

It took over 3 years for the Atlantic Steel site to be cleared for Atlantic Station before EPA certified as ready for construction. An article in the NYTimes quotes  Brian Leary, VP of Design/Development for chief investor AIG that the only way it could have been more complicated is if the site had  "been hovering above water." 

[Guest]

MLS and the local MLS ownership group are adamant the fairgrounds site is best location for future fan growth...it is close to downtown and the I24-Antioch-Murfreesboro corridor containing fast growth ethnic neighborhoods who culturally support soccer. In addition the development profits from ancillary development (residential, retail) is helping  ownership group pay for the stadium.

 

20 hours ago, troyboytn said:

Should this happen, I can see the soccer stadium in the fairgrounds plan  scrapped in favor of this location.

 

[bnacincy]

4 hours ago, TNinVB said:

My question is even if these buildings were to go, how long would it be before the land could be developed because of the heavy industrial sites that are there now. Wouldn’t the land have to be cleaned and checked for contamination? 

It would end up being an EPA Superfund site. 

Personally I would love to see a massive urban park developed on that location that stretched all way to what is now Cornelia Fort Airpark. There are neighborhoods outside of the East Bank that are crying out for redevelopment and I think Nashville needs more green space downtown anyway so let's see more residential development in the neighborhoods that need it and a park system that is centrally located so everyone can enjoy it.

[nashwatcher]

14 hours ago, bnacincy said:

It would end up being an EPA Superfund site. 

Personally I would love to see a massive urban park developed on that location that stretched all way to what is now Cornelia Fort Airpark. There are neighborhoods outside of the East Bank that are crying out for redevelopment and I think Nashville needs more green space downtown anyway so let's see more residential development in the neighborhoods that need it and a park system that is centrally located so everyone can enjoy it.

This is genius IMO. Having a huge downtown park for residents and tourists to enjoy would be an incredible asset for our city long term. I can imagine a lively, vibrant park with people laying out on the lawn, beach volleyball, small stages for local artists, food trucks, dog parks, etc etc etc

It would stimulate development on the east side and be incredible for East Nashville, downtown, tourists, and all of Nashville to enjoy!

[Neigeville2]

I don't have a problem with some of it being a park but I would like to see high rise office and residential buildings on the east bank with people walking back and forth on pedestrian bridges.

I really want the idea proposed long ago, to dig a 90 foot wide canal that would create an island out of the stadium area  with small inlets in the north part and have a small area of wetlands, boating and fishing along the canal and inlets.  Some buildings with terraces overlooking the canal would create a great atmosphere.

I've always thought it was astonishing they allowed those gas storage tanks downtown.  Those things blow up.  They should be out in BFE someplace.

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, Neigeville2 said:

I don't have a problem with some of it being a park but I would like to see high rise office and residential buildings on the east bank with people walking back and forth on pedestrian bridges.

I really want the idea proposed long ago, to dig a 90 foot wide canal that would create an island out of the stadium area  with small inlets in the north part and have a small area of wetlands, boating and fishing along the canal and inlets.  Some buildings with terraces overlooking the canal would create a great atmosphere.

I've always thought it was astonishing they allowed those gas storage tanks downtown.  Those things blow up.  They should be out in BFE someplace.

I've always thought it would be awesome to build a canal and turn it into a "Riverwalk" (ala San Antonio) with retail, hotels, etc building up along the canal.  I was always thinking it would be cool to be able to do that on the west side...but you're right, the east side makes more sense.

[WebberThomas4]

 

[bigeasy]

Wouldn't this mean they have something in the works? I don't know why the city would push to get PSC moved unless they were trying to market that area for development. Maybe they are trying to push for a relocation, or could there be some "threats" by the Titans about moving? I just don't see the city offering any incentives to PSC unless they know they could get something in return. Could they potentially say that they will give them the prison yard for the scrap yard if they use the current site for their headquarters?

[titanhog]

32 minutes ago, bigeasy said:

Wouldn't this mean they have something in the works? I don't know why the city would push to get PSC moved unless they were trying to market that area for development. Maybe they are trying to push for a relocation, or could there be some "threats" by the Titans about moving? I just don't see the city offering any incentives to PSC unless they know they could get something in return. Could they potentially say that they will give them the prison yard for the scrap yard if they use the current site for their headquarters?

Actually wouldn't be a bad compromise if PSC agrees to move and the city gives them incentives to develop the current land into a business / entertainment district  with a PSC tower included.

[Pdt2f]

Is PSC a big enough company where they’d need that kind of square footage? I don’t know much about the company. 

[smeagolsfree]

Right now they are in a 3 story suburban office building in Mayfield Heights OH. Several other offices in there as well.

[Armacing]

Here is the best way to get PSC and all the others (Citgo, steel place, etc.) out of the east bank:  Raise up the value of their land so that selling their land is more profitable than running their business.  Think about it:  if PSC realizes they can make way more money by selling their property for millions versus their low-margin scrap operation, they will go out and voluntarily seek buyers / investors.  Take a look at what Kennecott/Rio Tinto did with the west valley region of Salt Lake.  It was a mining company that owned large tracts of land and I think they did some kind of partnership with investors or the city to develop a massive new neighborhood.

Now you may be wondering:  How do we raise the value of that land?  Easy:  The city needs to confiscate all the projects/government subsidized housing around there in east Nashville, then divide it into lots, build houses on it, and literally deed the houses to the former project tenants.  Not a monthly rent subsidy - - full title and ownership.  They also need to confiscate the rainbow-colored houses in the TSU area and Jo Johnston corridor and deed them to the tenants.   This is called building wealth around the core:  home owners are richer than rent-subsidized tenants.

[nashvylle]

12 minutes ago, Armacing said:

Here is the best way to get PSC and all the others (Citgo, steel place, etc.) out of the east bank:  Raise up the value of their land so that selling their land is more profitable than running their business.  Think about it:  if PSC realizes they can make way more money by selling their property for millions versus their low-margin scrap operation, they will go out and voluntarily seek buyers / investors.  Take a look at what Kennecott/Rio Tinto did with the west valley region of Salt Lake.  It was a mining company that owned large tracts of land and I think they did some kind of partnership with investors or the city to develop a massive new neighborhood.

Now you may be wondering:  How do we raise the value of that land?  Easy:  The city needs to confiscate all the projects/government subsidized housing around there in east Nashville, then divide it into lots, build houses on it, and literally deed the houses to the former project tenants.  Not a monthly rent subsidy - - full title and ownership.  They also need to confiscate the rainbow-colored houses in the TSU area and Jo Johnston corridor and deed them to the tenants.   This is called building wealth around the core:  home owners are richer than rent-subsidized tenants.

getting a buyer that will want to deal with environmental hazards is the bigger issue

[bnacincy]

2 hours ago, nashvylle said:

getting a buyer that will want to deal with environmental hazards is the bigger issue

As I mentioned, this will probably end up being an EPA Superfund site or else there won't be any buyers.

Come to think of it, a good portion of the East Bank should probably end up being a Superfund site.

My dream is to deindustrialize the Cumberland River From Opryland to Cockrill Bend and relocate industries to the vacant land that's available in Cockrill Bend. There's quite a bit of it if you look at a map. Then the cleared land could be used for parks and residential development.

Edited June 6, 2018 by bnacincy
Additional Material

[Brownfield]

13 hours ago, bnacincy said:

As I mentioned, this will probably end up being an EPA Superfund site or else there won't be any buyers.

Come to think of it, a good portion of the East Bank should probably end up being a Superfund site.

My dream is to deindustrialize the Cumberland River From Opryland to Cockrill Bend and relocate industries to the vacant land that's available in Cockrill Bend. There's quite a bit of it if you look at a map. Then the cleared land could be used for parks and residential development.

This won't be a superfund site, it won't meet the listing criteria for EPA. That said, it's a perfect brownfield site and a savvy, motivated buyer won't be discouraged from purchasing and reusing the property safely. 

[nashvylle]

32 minutes ago, Brownfield said:

This won't be a superfund site, it won't meet the listing criteria for EPA. That said, it's a perfect brownfield site and a savvy, motivated buyer won't be discouraged from purchasing and reusing the property safely. 

given your username, I trust you.

[titanhog]

5 hours ago, Brownfield said:

This won't be a superfund site, it won't meet the listing criteria for EPA. That said, it's a perfect brownfield site and a savvy, motivated buyer won't be discouraged from purchasing and reusing the property safely. 

So...you're admitting you're buying this land as soon as it goes on the market.   Call it "Brownfield's Brownfield" 

[bnacincy]

What criteria would this site have to meet to qualify as a Superfund Site?

[Brownfield]

13 hours ago, bnacincy said:

What criteria would this site have to meet to qualify as a Superfund Site?

Prepare to get into the weeds... The EPA uses a system called HRS to score site for listing to the National Priority List (Superfund). The Hazard Ranking System (HRS) evaluates the relative risks to human health and the environment posed by uncontrolled hazardous waste sites. The HRS evaluates three things; 1) the likelihood that a site has released or has the potential to release contaminants into the environment, 2) the characteristics of the waste (toxicity and waste quantity), and 3) the people or sensitive environments affected by the release.

So for this site in particular you'd have to identify a release to the environment (the contamination that's undoubtedly present), it would have to be toxic (it likely would be), and you would have to have the contamination impact people. This is where the potential listing of the site would fall apart. Based on its location and land use, there won't be enough people impacted. In Tennessee, we get sites listed primarily by two exposure routes; impacted groundwater supplies (which are not used in Nashville) and impacted soil with residents nearby/on the property (which is not the case here).

I hope this explanation is clear enough. Obviously, its a complex federal program. For those interested, TDEC works closely with the EPA on sites where people are actually at risk from uncontrolled hazardous waste sites. FYI, there are no Superfund (NPL) sites in Nashville.

[bigeasy]

Have there been any studies on the water quality in the river? I have always wondered how much of that is making it's way into the river. It is one reason I have never done the Music City Tri. I just have zero desire to be swimming in the river downtown. 

[Brownfield]

43 minutes ago, bigeasy said:

Have there been any studies on the water quality in the river? I have always wondered how much of that is making it's way into the river. It is one reason I have never done the Music City Tri. I just have zero desire to be swimming in the river downtown. 

I'm sure there are. TDEC's Division of Water Resources and/or Metro Water would have those reports.