The Mall at Green Hills

[jeb1974]

Shoot, Macy's could keep some out of the market if it upgraded it's stuff. The one in Green Hills is awful. Dillard is better. The Macy's needs to be on par with the one in Phoenix at the Biltmore Fashion Park.

I also have not been overwhelmed by any of the Macy's stores in the Nashville metro area. They have plenty of sales but when I've been, I haven't found much of anything I really wanted; too much of the merchanside is too ordinary or too trendy to me. In this market, I also think Dillard's has better merchandise than Macy's. I tend to go to Dillard's stores at Green Hills the most and next to that the Dillard's at Cool Springs.

[dragonfly]

I also read the article and agree 100%. Although, I'm very spoiled when it comes to shopping. Atlanta doesn't even do it for me. There's only four or five cities in the US that I find myself shopping in and they are New York, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, and maybe Miami.

Really??? Not positive, but I've always heard next to Chicago; Altanta has the most (upscale) shopping per capita in the US.

Anyone confirm?

With all of the talk on the forum about upscale shopping, I never hear mentioned the (2.4 M sq. ft. retail) Houston Galleria. After they razed and took over a whole city block 5 years ago and built over the street to connect the addition, it became the 5th largest mall in US in sq. ft. and the largest luxury mall. People from all over Latin America fly here just for shopping there. There are 2 high rise hotels rising out of the complex, as well as dozens of large hotels within blocks. Nordstrom, Nieman's and Saks are there in addition to 2(!!) Macy's. There are 3 office towers in the complex and the 60 floor Williams tower across the street connects with a skywalk. For what it's worth Lord & Taylor threw in the towel there, don't know why, space was turned into more mall area including a 2 story Borders. Surrounding the Galleria are other upscale shopping centers featuring similar stores and local fashion houses: Fashion Centre, Uptown Collection, Uptown Park and Highland Village. If you want to do some serious shopping come to Houston. Consider spending freely at Nordstrom, maybe the company will see the connection and open a store in Nashville.

[Rural King]

I have not read the article about folks traveling to Atlanta, but I find it an interesting tidbit of info. Who is the demographic traveling four hours to shop in Atlanta? I assume its higher end/luxury consumers more so than your run-of the mill middle class shoppers.

I would think the city's retail mix meets the expectations and needs of the majority of the city's consumers. Gaining Nordrstrum's would be nice amenity for the Green Hills Mall and segment of the city's consumer base, but I can't imagine its a pressing demand or outlet of choice for most shoppers.

[nsvlbimmerguy]

As a born and raised Nashvillian, I can say I've been going to Atlanta to shop for probably 10+ years now. While I also enjoy the city as a whole, the primary purpose in most cases is to shop. While I'm not an addict, I find myself seeking out the things we don't have anytime I'm in another city. I think Chicago has better shopping overall, but for a spread out city like ATL, the gist of it is pretty isolated. (Unlike Miami where it's spread all over Miami-Dade county)

[ATLBrain]

...but for a spread out city like ATL, the gist of it is pretty isolated.

Isolated? Don't you mean concentrated?

[FromParkAveToTN]

Atlanta is not one of my favorite places to travel to. It seems like every place I've been to in Atlanta, the customer service has been horrible. So, when I want to travel or want to take a shopping trip, Atlanta never comes to mind because of the lack to quality customer service. The last time I was in Atlanta, I had to take my car in to the dealership there and the service was so horrible, I had to get an attorney to rectify the situation.

[eastofnowhere]

I've been to a lot of cities, and I'm still pretty content with Nashville's shopping. Other than Ikea, possibly Crate & Barrel, and the aforementioned Nordstrom, and obscure shops unique to other cities, what does Nashville lack, really, that makes people drive to Atlanta?

[franktown]

Who is the demographic traveling four hours to shop in Atlanta? I assume its higher end/luxury consumers more so than your run-of the mill middle class shoppers.

I live in Williamson Cty, and almost everyone I know ( I know that anecdotal evidence isn't good evidence, forgive me!) either has gone or goes regurally to either Chicago or Atlanta for their shopping. Many of my friends in Belle Meade go to NYC....I would say that destination shopping is pretty big.

[Justiceham]

I've been to a lot of cities, and I'm still pretty content with Nashville's shopping. Other than Ikea, possibly Crate & Barrel, and the aforementioned Nordstrom, and obscure shops unique to other cities, what does Nashville lack, really, that makes people drive to Atlanta?

Besides the stores you mentioned, I'll add Bloomingdales, Neimen Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Barney's, True Religion, Kenneth Cole, Hermes, Gucci, Prada, Armani or even Armani Exchange, Urban Outfitters, Trader Joes, etc. Most of these stores should already be at Green Hills Mall, and more so, Cool Springs or the McEwen Development. Until these stores come to the area, high end and savvy shoppers will continue to drive to Atlanta. (Even if they come here, which they will some day, you can find me in the back of T.J. Maxx or Marshall's finding the real deals.)

[Rural King]

I live in Williamson Cty, and almost everyone I know ( I know that anecdotal evidence isn't good evidence, forgive me!) either has gone or goes regurally to either Chicago or Atlanta for their shopping. Many of my friends in Belle Meade go to NYC....I would say that destination shopping is pretty big.

So in essence we are talking about the more affluent upper middle class portions of metro Nashville's populace? I just don't see the average middle class Nashvillian family making 50-60K per household heading to Atlanta, Chicago, etc. to shop or finding Nashville lacking in options to meet their shopping needs.

I don't think its unusual for a city the size of Nashville to lack the amenities cited. I think in near to short term Nashville will start to gain many of the aformentioned establishments as the city's size and demographics warrant their entry into the market.

As for Birmingham acquiring a Nordstrom's before Nashville, I would have to postulate that it had to do with some issue that is unrelated to a direct comparision of the two cities' markets and more to do with some internal business decision affected a local aspect/attribute found in the Birmingham location.

[111wall]

The high-end demographics are already here (especially in Zip Codes 37205, 37215 plus all Williamson County Zips) to lure important stores to Nashville. These areas of Nashville, along with all of Williamson Co., are the highest per capita income areas in all of TN.

Tiffany, Louis Vuitton, etc. would not be in the Mall at Green Hills otherwise. Besides the Mall itself, the Green Hills area now has the Hill Center, with Whole Foods, Market, West Elm, Le Creuset, Mitchell Gold+Bob Williams, Anthropologie, etc. Many of these are the only such stores in Tennessee and these companies obviously did their research before locating here.

Similar development is underway nearby with both the Belle Meade Town Center and Hill Center Belle Meade now under construction. Brentwood is also upscale and has a lot of unique stores --the Maryland Farms area is undergoing further development in downtown Brentwood. Cool Springs is already huge and continues to grow, with a recent announcement by the Southern Land Co. to develop and entire new section of CS anchored by another Whole Foods. The opening of Nissan's Headquarters in Cool Springs will take place next year and spur even more development of offices, retail and residential. During the next two years, the Bellevue Center Mall is scheduled to be largely torn down (except for anchor stores Macys & Sears) and replaced with a mega-development.

I think 'destination' shopping mostly happends when people area on a business trip or vacation. Let's face it, there is not that much you can't already find here. The luxury dept. stores are nice, but you can find a lot of their designer clothing at boutiques and specialty stores like Jamie in Belle Meade.

So in essence we are talking about the more affluent upper middle class portions of metro Nashville's populace? I just don't see the average middle class Nashvillian family making 50-60K per household heading to Atlanta, Chicago, etc. to shop or finding Nashville lacking in options to meet their shopping needs.

I don't think its unusual for a city the size of Nashville to lack the amenities cited. I think in near to short term Nashville will start to gain many of the aformentioned establishments as the city's size and demographics warrant their entry into the market.

As for Birmingham acquiring a Nordstrom's before Nashville, I would have to postulate that it had to do with some issue that is unrelated to a direct comparision of the two cities' markets and more to do with some internal business decision affected a local aspect/attribute found in the Birmingham location.

[eastofnowhere]

Besides the stores you mentioned, I'll add Bloomingdales, Neimen Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Barney's, True Religion, Kenneth Cole, Hermes, Gucci, Prada, Armani or even Armani Exchange, Urban Outfitters, Trader Joes, etc. Most of these stores should already be at Green Hills Mall, and more so, Cool Springs or the McEwen Development. Until these stores come to the area, high end and savvy shoppers will continue to drive to Atlanta. (Even if they come here, which they will some day, you can find me in the back of T.J. Maxx or Marshall's finding the real deals.)

Well, there's a Sak's outlet here, but it's kind of bizarre that it's the only Sak's store in Tennessee given that the company is based here. Also, I'm a little surprised we don't have an Urban Outfitters, especially since there's one in Birmingham, but most of what they sell you can find at other local shops here anyway. And Trader Joe's... between Publix and Whole Foods, surely we have enough quality grocery stores?? Kenneth Cole you can buy at a lot of stores already, same with Gucci, Prada, etc. Having the full store adds a bit of prestige and convenience for the brand-loyal, but if someone were looking for those products they could easily find them around town.

[ATLBrain]

Saks is based in Birmingham. Its CEO is a Tennessean, and the predecessor of what would become its owner (Saks has been around for years), Proffitts was a TN (Maryville/Knoxville) company.

BTW, Trader Joe's is nothing special. I'll drive past TJs and Publix to go to Costco.

[eastofnowhere]

Saks is based in Birmingham. Its CEO is a Tennessean, and the predecessor of what would become its owner (Saks has been around for years), Proffitts was a TN (Maryville/Knoxville) company.

The Proffitts company changed its name to Saks after they purchased the stores/brand, so it's basically the same company (rather than a predecessor, but I guess that's semantics). I didn't know about the Birmingham office, but they still have a corporate presence in TN anyway - their customer service & investor relations dept's anyway still have knoxville area phone numbers. Anyway, to get back on topic, it's odd that we don't have a Sak's Fifth Ave. store here other than the outlet at Opry.

[ATLBrain]

The point is that they are currently based in Birmingham, but they're in the process of moving the HQ back to NYC.

[Justiceham]

BTW, Trader Joe's is nothing special. I'll drive past TJs and Publix to go to Costco.

Trader Joe's is something special. Their prices are much cheaper than Whole Foods and they don't carry as much clout. I have to agree with you, though, Costco is sinful.

[Manolos]

Saks has already moved to NYC, it is no longer based out of Birmingham

Besides the stores you mentioned, I'll add Bloomingdales, Neimen Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Barney's, True Religion, Kenneth Cole, Hermes, Gucci, Prada, Armani or even Armani Exchange, Urban Outfitters, Trader Joes, etc. Most of these stores should already be at Green Hills Mall, and more so, Cool Springs or the McEwen Development. Until these stores come to the area, high end and savvy shoppers will continue to drive to Atlanta. (Even if they come here, which they will some day, you can find me in the back of T.J. Maxx or Marshall's finding the real deals.)

Even many large markets do not have a Prada or a Giorgio store.

[Richard Lawson]

richard lawson-

I was reading your article the other day about Nashville shopping. I found it interesting that so many Nashvillians will drive four hours and spend hundreds of dollars in Atlanta shops. I think Nashville definitely has the market for a Nordstroms and what not, I think Nashville needs to do whatever to make that investment now.

My question is if the new convention center gets built as planned, do you think we could kill two birds with one stone by converting the current convention center into a Nordstroms? We could.... 1.) Get a Nashville Nordstroms and 2.) get some serious downtown retail and another incentive for people coming downtown. I think this would be incredible. Everyones thoughts....?

hey sorry for taking a week to respond. I didn't see this until now. The downtown retail thing is a challenge. First, you have people who still say, well, we already had a mall downtown and that didn't work. When they say that, I want to smack them up side the head. The days of going downtown to shop ended when Castner and all opened in the suburbs. There was nothing at Church Street Centre that you couldn't get in the burbs so why come downtown? Secondly, in talking to real estate folks, the stores that have been discussed on this thread are more inclined to go to Green Hills first. And even then, the stores likely wouldn't go anywhere else in Nashville for some time. They would go to Cool Springs before downtown.

That said, in order for Nashville to get those stores downtown, the city would have to cut a very sweet deal. In Norfolk, Nordstrom's has a store downtown and the company pays virtually nothing in rent. It doesn't do the revenue as it's other stores but the profit margin is huge. By comparison, a Lord & Taylor had opened in downtown Norfolk (why is really beyond me) but didn't have the same sweet deal as Nordstrom and closed something like a year or so later.

The current convention center would be a great site for redevelopment. It would just take some creative thinking and financing to convince one of the big stores to come. The top of a new convention center could work as well. At least then, it's inside that development zone and there may be some financing flexibility. All of this would require some serious creativity. Now, look at the downtown library and the new symphony center and decide whether that creativity exists.

[producer2]

Richard,

I think it exists, the question is at what level does it exist? The problems in the past have been funding. Many people are already upset about the cost of the new facility. Many want a green space and LEED certification. I think we can have it all and great retail space that makes it a win win for both tourists and locals. The 64,000 question is how can we get it all financed in the beginning instead of having a building that has good intentions but no quite complete. Had we the same fortitutde when we built the arena we would not be looking at additional funding to complete the rehersal hall and other additions which were a part of the original plan but cut for budgeting purposes.

[nashvillebillionare]

so what is the chance and when do you all think nashville will get a long overdue Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Lord and Taylor, Nordstrom, or Bergdorf Goodman?

[Justiceham]

so what is the chance and when do you all think nashville will get a long overdue Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, Lord and Taylor, Nordstrom, or Bergdorf Goodman?

After everyone else.

[samsonh]

I would be shocked if one does not start construction in the next 3 years. Although all of you guys fascination with one and its "importance" on a city is odd. Who the hell cares. They sell the same crap Dillards sells at a higher price. And yes, I have been to the ones in bigger cities like Chicago. It is bizarre to see you guys argue over the importance of having one of these stores.

[Rocky@theTop]

Where is this incredible upscale Dillard's? *note sarcasm*

[Lexy]

I would be shocked if one does not start construction in the next 3 years. Although all of you guys fascination with one and its "importance" on a city is odd. Who the hell cares. They sell the same crap Dillards sells at a higher price. And yes, I have been to the ones in bigger cities like Chicago. It is bizarre to see you guys argue over the importance of having one of these stores.

Well, you can't buy luxury boats and private jets at Dillard's, but you can at Neiman Marcus. There is some difference in those two for sure.

[StevenRocks]

I would be shocked if one does not start construction in the next 3 years. Although all of you guys fascination with one and its "importance" on a city is odd. Who the hell cares. They sell the same crap Dillards sells at a higher price. And yes, I have been to the ones in bigger cities like Chicago. It is bizarre to see you guys argue over the importance of having one of these stores.

The only thing that Neiman Marcus and Dillard's have in common is that they're both department stores. Other than that, they differ greatly. If they have similar merchandise, it's at the same price, but Neiman Marcus sells more luxury oriented merchandise and tends to have a higher level of service.