Perception of Charlotte Nationwide

[Charlotte_native]

I don't think Atlvr was saying that Charlotte is devoid of multiple cultures and languages. We do have a growing mix of accents and languages on the streets that I hear quite often. But we certainly do not have a constant presence that is so pervasive to be the norm as is the case in top tier cities. Saying this is not bashing Charlotte or being negative. It's just the truth.

I depends on where you go in town. In center city I hear and see the smattering of other languages like I've posted and others have posted. Go down South Blvd past Woodlawn you'll find yourself in Little Latin Land where gringos are outnumbered probably 5 to 1 with many asians mixed in.

Head down Central Ave past Morningside you'll see Saigon Square, numerous asian markets and businesses for many blocks, Bosnian businesses and markets (we got a large influx of Bosnians and Croatians in the past couple of decades -- my step sister married one of them!), tons of Hispanic businesses, residents, and restaurants. I think this is where many of the Hmong settled when moving to the region a couple of decades ago.

Albemarle Road has almost NO businesses that are not international oriented from the Halal Market (think Islamic version of Kosher) that serves the large middle eastern and persian population in the area, there is a Hindu Center somewhere out there, there are, again, TONS of latin oriented businesses and cuban businesses.

Like most cities, these groups have found areas of town to congregate and live so you don't see their numbers if you stay or play in areas outside of their realm.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Charlotte_native

[Commoner]

Until MVA opens an office in NYC or London, or anywhere north of the NC state line, I'm sticking to my claim.

There are certainly firms in Charlotte that have good reputations, but still not a national presence. Let's face it, MVA closes large deals for BofA and Wachovia, whereas Cadwalader (with an office in Charlotte) closes deals for them as well as all the other top 10 largest banks in the world.

King & Spaulding and Alston Bird are examples of Atlanta firms that have become national in scope.

My point in all this is that Charlotte, is still mostly relavent as a regional power-house, but is still a way from being nationally significant.

I see your point. I can say with confidence, however, that the Charlotte offices of King & Spalding, Mayer Brown, Cadwalader, Dechert, Dewey LeBoef and Sonnenshein are extremely important to those Wall Street/Chicago/Atlanta/Philly powerhouses. It's unfortunate for all of the good local firms that they were/are late to the game with advanced platforms for deals this large/complex, but you can credit both banks for telling all of the above that if they want to play, they need to grow roots here.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Commoner

[atlrvr]

It's unfortunate for all of the good local firms that they were/are late to the game with advanced platforms for deals this large/complex,

Which I think is a fair statement for Charlotte in general....it's late to the game in terms of national cities and is trying to work twice as hard to catch up.....Atlanta has been the most successful of "new" cities, but it still was much more regionally important when it began its fervent cycles of investment/growth.

[cltheel.sdl]

I agree with you on most of them except #1.....I hear Greek, Indian, Russian, Arabic, German, etc all the time....the ethnic population in Charlotte is definately increasing constantly. I myself am Greek and I remember when they were saying the Greek population was like around 8,000-10,000 and now its like around 14,000-15,000, There was only one main Greek Orthodox church in CLT, and now there is a 2nd one that was just finished off Providence Rd.(although they had the congregation for 10 years), and also a 3rd congregation in Lake Norman area has been started last year. Not to mention the Armenian church on Park Rd. that is fairly new too. And I was suprised at how many Persians there are in CLT after my friend introduced me to so many. So there is a lot of ethnic population growth, maybe not like NYC, Boston or Miami, but compared to the other cities in the Carolinas trust me! Go to Columbia, everyone is either White, Black or Mexican! Rarely anything else. You also have to think, Charlotte didnt and still doesnt have the industries that Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit etc. had/has. Ethnic people, especially European immigrants back in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's found jobs easily in those places because of those industries. But now the Rust Belt is getting more and more Rusty, and so Charlotte(and Atlanta, and others) is somehow gaining attention from those immigrants because of oppurtunity situations.

The new Greek church (St. Nektarios I think) is so beautiful! It's located right outside my neighborhood. It's so strange to see such a unique architectural piece out in the middle of burbs, but you gotta love it. Most people have NIMBYist attitudes towards churches in their backyards due to traffic, noise, etc., but this new church is definitely an asset rather than a liability.

Here is a quite from their website regarding their new church building that is now open: "In June 2004, the General Assembly approved the conceptual plan for a Byzantine-style church which will cost approximately $4.5M to $5M and seat approximately 600 parishioners. The church will be proximate to the existing Spiritual Life Center. Master plans for the project include an athletic facility, outdoor plaza, additional classrooms, and meeting rooms."

I'll post some pics whenever I get a chance.

Edited November 2, 2007 by cltheel.sdl

[VistaLakes01]

I've never explored Charlotte on the street level but have passed through on the expressways many times. Charlotte is a big city, not because of the 600,000 city population but because it of it's metropolitan population, it's impressive skyline and growth and the addition of retailers that are above the norm of a medium sized city. If one went by the city population of Jacksonville would you really get the impression that it's a city of 800,000? And my hometown of Orlando would barely be medium sized with it's population aproaching 250,000. Orlando continues to grow without annexation which is impressive, and a couple of other Florida cities that were stagnant or losing population have begun to grow again in the past 7 years without annexation, Miami has finally made it over the 400,000 hump in it's very small city limits and Tampa is growing through the 300's. But the largest population growth city-wise in Florida was in Jacksonville although it's metro area is growing a lot less than Tampa or Orlando (not sure about Miami's stats.) I think once Charlotte gets 1.5 million in its current city limits it will be a huge city which could happen not too far in the distant future if the growth rate continues because I think (but i'm not sure) that most of metro Charlottes growth happens in the city proper. Same as Jax but you can tell by the skyline, etc that Charlotte is a bigger city and is destined to be one.

[VistaLakes01]

I've never explored Charlotte on the street level but have passed through on the expressways many times. Charlotte is a big city, not because of the 600,000 city population but because it of it's metropolitan population, it's impressive skyline and growth and the addition of retailers that are above the norm of a medium sized city. If one went by the city population of Jacksonville would you really get the impression that it's a city of 800,000? And my hometown of Orlando would barely be medium sized with it's population aproaching 250,000. Orlando continues to grow without annexation which is impressive, and a couple of other Florida cities that were stagnant or losing population have begun to grow again in the past 7 years without annexation, Miami has finally made it over the 400,000 hump in it's very small city limits and Tampa is growing through the 300's. But the largest population growth city-wise in Florida was in Jacksonville although it's metro area is growing a lot less than Tampa or Orlando (not sure about Miami's stats.) I think once Charlotte gets 1.5 million in its current city limits it will be a huge city which could happen not too far in the distant future if the growth rate continues because I think (but i'm not sure) that most of metro Charlottes growth happens in the city proper. Same as Jax but you can tell by the skyline, etc that Charlotte is a bigger city and is destined to be one.

[krazeeboi]

Like most cities, these groups have found areas of town to congregate and live so you don't see their numbers if you stay or play in areas outside of their realm.

I agree. For about two months, I worked in a warehouse in the quality department off Westinghouse Blvd, and that place was like the United Nations. Just off the top of my head, there were individuals from El Salvador, Nicaragua, Egypt, Kenya, Sudan, Liberia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Ivory Coast, Ghana, India, Panama, Guatemala, Laos, and Haiti working there. There were those from other countries as well. My friend (who was working there at the time as well) and I were really surprised to see such ethnic diversity in Charlotte, all under one roof. We pretty much came to the same conclusion: these folks don't venture much outside of their own ethnic enclaves, so it's pretty rare to rub shoulders with them in a random Uptown setting. They're definitely in the city, but just not highly visible. But I do believe that Charlotte will have reached another level when you begin seeing higher levels of cultural and ethnic integration throughout the city.

[Justadude]

^ I think we will see this in about 20-30 years. Charlotte is a remarkably easy place to become successful in business, and also a good place to raise a child if you've got your head screwed on right. I expect that many of these immigrants will raise their children to value the amount of opportunity at their back door, and many of those children will integrate successfully into the business community. At that point the city's culture will shift dramatically.

[nowensone]

Integration seems to be hit or miss, I've lived in several of Texas' largest cities and even several generations doesn't always do it, not sure what dynamic is different now than in earlier decades and centuries. Perhaps it was the same then too. And in all fairness, I'm not just referring to Mexican-Americans, I've seen the lack of integration in Houston's large Vietnamese community as well. Hell, there are even pockets of "home grown Americans" that haven't really integrated into mainstream America, I won't cite examples, but I think we've all noticed this before...

[HopHead]

Found this article on Yahoo Real Estate that talks about the Most Affordable Places to Live Well. It doesn't list Charlotte in its rankings, but makes mention of Charlotte as being a "once-secondary city" b/c it's become a cheaper alternative to Silicon Valley and Wall Street. I think we can most all agree on that

[Justadude]

My college alma mater (Sewanee) arranges week-long spring break trips for groups of students who are interested in business networking. In the past, these groups have gone to NYC and DC each year. This year, they are adding Charlotte. I was astonished at this move, considering Atlanta and Nashville are both much (3 hours plus) closer to the campus than Charlotte, but that's how much buzz the city is getting as a business destination.

[CapeFearRiver10]

Not to offend any other city in the "Mid-South" but I think Charlotte will become well known around the world. I know NC having a city like Charlotte means big money for the state & global attention. I believe Charlotte needs to create or find something (culture, things to do, or maybe skyline) that separates them from all the other U.S. cities. In 20-40 years Charlotte could become one those cities that everybody wants to move to start a career like.... NYC, SF, CHI, MIA, L.A., & D.C.. Plus its the hub of the Carolinatropolis (for right now).

[elvigy]

Found this article on Yahoo Real Estate that talks about the Most Affordable Places to Live Well. It doesn't list Charlotte in its rankings, but makes mention of Charlotte as being a "once-secondary city" b/c it's become a cheaper alternative to Silicon Valley and Wall Street. I think we can most all agree on that

Strictly a personal opinion, but I don't know that I'd necessarily want to live in any of their top 10. Some of them are the worst examples of unchecked sprawl (Houston, Dallas and Atlanta) in the US. And Cincinnati is referred to as the Queen City? I didn't realize we had competition for that title.

[VistaLakes01]

Strictly a personal opinion, but I don't know that I'd necessarily want to live in any of their top 10. Some of them are the worst examples of unchecked sprawl (Houston, Dallas and Atlanta) in the US. And Cincinnati is referred to as the Queen City? I didn't realize we had competition for that title.

How is sprawl in Charlotte? Is it under control somewhat or is it a developer's paradise. Orlando was voted the worst city in the nation for urban sprawl a couple of years ago and this year has the 8th longest commute in the nation due to the sprawl and distance and traffic. Hope Charlotte is doing a better job!

[kermit]

I know its still early but I have to wonder if outside observers will consider Charlotte to be one of the more progressive cities in the South as a result of the 70-30 vote? That was a very strong endorsement of modern urban development from a town that has a national reputation as a relatively conservative place. Afterall even Seattle rejected transit on Tuesday (I do know that that was a more complicated issue)

just thinking out loud....

[elvigy]

How is sprawl in Charlotte? Is it under control somewhat or is it a developer's paradise. Orlando was voted the worst city in the nation for urban sprawl a couple of years ago and this year has the 8th longest commute in the nation due to the sprawl and distance and traffic. Hope Charlotte is doing a better job!

Pretty bad actually, so I really have no cause to throw stones at other cities. But there is room for hope. Charlotte seems on one hand to be committed to developing density in its core (residential, office and retail) as well as trying to encourage density along the new light rail lines. And it does seem to be working to a degree. The downtown area has really made a 180 degree turn from where it was in the 80s, though of course there's always room for improvement. We'll have to see what happens with the light rail. That subject is done to death in another thread.

But then on the other hand you have the city approving ridiculously sprawl-inducing development plans on the outer edges of the city. It's almost schizophrenic to me.

[Charlotte_native]

But then on the other hand you have the city approving ridiculously sprawl-inducing development plans on the outer edges of the city. It's almost schizophrenic to me.

Though Charlotte and Mecklenburg County are both quite guilty of allowing this to happen, we also have the problem of our outlying counties doing so at a wholesale level. There is no comprehesive plan in the region for better planning and growth and nothing seems to be in line to create more of an atmosphere to work together.

On the other hand some of our suburban developments are at least becoming more self-contained with a decent mix of residential (single and multi-family), retail and commercial with walkability as part of the plan. These might not be perfect, but they are a far cry from typical cul-de-sac disconnected development of the past that requires a car for everything. Though most will still commute in and out of of these town-center developments, they can at least stay put if they choose, once they get there, and have most of what they need nearby.

[cinco]

in reality sprawl is as evident here as in most U.S. metropolitians. in my personal reality - it almost doesn't exsist @ all. i live within walking distance to many of my destinations and short commutes to others. most of the neighborhoods that my life revolves around are older, more established and denser ones...

i think it is apparent that the people of charlotte are well aware of the learning curve that has been given by bigger cities in regards to sprawl... as the pro-transit mandate (landslide) would indicate.

however, i do hope our leaders will continue to fine tune their progression towards transit. case in point: charlotte mayor pat mccrory has now referred to 2 traffic corridors as "corridors of crap." the problem i have with that - is that i believe he was mainly referring to the economic downtrodden appearance - not just the traffic.

now, i am all for our LTR trying to tackle both of those issues on 1 of the deemed "corridors of crap" - but as we move forward i hope we will tighten our definition of "crap" to mean traffic and lack of alternatives.

as i was driving (parking) in traffic the other day through a well-to-do part of south charlotte, on providence rd., i was reminded of the term "corridor of crap."

so, to answer your question on sprawl... damage has certainly been done, but i think the future looks optimistically progressive.

[Bynocerus]

Well, as an anecdote:

I was talking to my brother in law today about where my wife and I wanted to eventually wind up, and I told him that eventually we'd like to get away from VA back down to Charlotte. His response: Charlotte North or South Carolina?

Um, is there a Charlotte, SC???

At any rate, still some work to be done for the Northeasterners on where we are.

[abttown]

Charlotte is a big enough city that people should know where it is located. There really is no excuse for not knowing that Charlotte is in North Carolina unless you just suck with geography (which unfortunately applies to most Americans).

[krazeeboi]

Strictly a personal opinion, but I don't know that I'd necessarily want to live in any of their top 10. Some of them are the worst examples of unchecked sprawl (Houston, Dallas and Atlanta) in the US.

The title of the thread wasn't "Most Desirable Places to Live," but "Most Affordable Places to Live." Even then, the fact of the matter is that Americans like sprawl because it's affordable (in terms of housing prices).

And Cincinnati is referred to as the Queen City? I didn't realize we had competition for that title.

See this thread.

[VistaLakes01]

in reality sprawl is as evident here as in most U.S. metropolitians. in my personal reality - it almost doesn't exsist @ all. i live within walking distance to many of my destinations and short commutes to others. most of the neighborhoods that my life revolves around are older, more established and denser ones...

i think it is apparent that the people of charlotte are well aware of the learning curve that has been given by bigger cities in regards to sprawl... as the pro-transit mandate (landslide) would indicate.

however, i do hope our leaders will continue to fine tune their progression towards transit. case in point: charlotte mayor pat mccrory has now referred to 2 traffic corridors as "corridors of crap." the problem i have with that - is that i believe he was mainly referring to the economic downtrodden appearance - not just the traffic.

now, i am all for our LTR trying to tackle both of those issues on 1 of the deemed "corridors of crap" - but as we move forward i hope we will tighten our definition of "crap" to mean traffic and lack of alternatives.

as i was driving (parking) in traffic the other day through a well-to-do part of south charlotte, on providence rd., i was reminded of the term "corridor of crap."

so, to answer your question on sprawl... damage has certainly been done, but i think the future looks optimistically progressive.

They tell us that rail stations develope core areas around them. Here we are building a commuter rail first, that's how sprawled this area is, the north south route is 100 miles long. But as far as the core villages around the stations, are they just reffering to commuter rail or would light rail have the same effect?

[Commoner]

On page B6 of today's Wall Street Journal (and on the top half of the "Marketplace" section), are renderings of the new Wachovia Corporate Center. They are part of an article on Charlotte's exceptional downtown office space market. I would link to the article, but my firm provides the WSJ on Lexis Nexis, so I can't retrieve the URL. The title of the article is "Charlotte Rides Out the Woes in Finance"

Is copying/pasting (and giving credit) against UP rules?

[Neo]

On page B6 of today's Wall Street Journal (and on the top half of the "Marketplace" section), are renderings of the new Wachovia Corporate Center. They are part of an article on Charlotte's exceptional downtown office space market. I would link to the article, but my firm provides the WSJ on Lexis Nexis, so I can't retrieve the URL. The title of the article is "Charlotte Rides Out the Woes in Finance"

Is copying/pasting (and giving credit) against UP rules?

It is against our rules even if you give credit. In this particular case even though you can pull it off Lexis Nexis your company pays for that service which in turn pays WSJ, providing here would be against the terms with WSJ and Lexis Nexis since you are essentially providing a copy of the content for free which was not intended by either company.

[Charlotte_native]

Interesting article about our market, our pricing compared to other markets -- was emailed to me this morning by a friend in ATL

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2007/11/13..._1113value.html