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Perception of Charlotte Nationwide


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One of my favorite things about Charlotte these days are the people who live here from all over the place. On Sundays that we don't go to home Panther games (we show up, they don't!), we go to Picasso's on Church Street to watch all the games all day long and hang out with friends and neighbors. One of my favorite parts of that, now that it has become routine and we've gotten to know a lot of folks, is meeting the various people from various cities. Since it is a sports bar and shows almost every game that is on, including ones that aren't shown on any of our local channels, there is a HUGE contingent of folks that show up in jerseys for the team from wherever they are from. I've met people from all over. Inevitably I end up asking them how they ended up here and what they think. Could just be the crowd there, but the responses are overwhelmingly positive. Some might miss home, but almost all like it here.

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On page B6 of today's Wall Street Journal (and on the top half of the "Marketplace" section), are renderings of the new Wachovia Corporate Center. They are part of an article on Charlotte's exceptional downtown office space market. I would link to the article, but my firm provides the WSJ on Lexis Nexis, so I can't retrieve the URL. The title of the article is "Charlotte Rides Out the Woes in Finance"

I think that's primarily because Charlotte really isn't a financial center, just more of a banking center.

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I think that's primarily because Charlotte really isn't a financial center, just more of a banking center.

What is the difference? Even Forbes magazine refers to Charlotte as a financial center. I think it would be hard to say that, with 2 of the biggest banks in the nation headquartered here, that Charlotte doesn't offer a pretty broad range of financial services. Obviously not on par with NYC or what have you, but pretty significant nonetheless. And I'd venture to say that we're ahead of significantly larger areas, such as Atlanta, when it comes down to it.

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NYC, Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago are more financial centers than Charlotte.

LA, Seattle, Philly are probably at least equal or slightly greater financial centers than Charlotte.

Charlotte keeps getting named the 2nd largest banking center in the U.S., which is really just a measure of assets of company with HQs in Charlotte.

Financial Centers include more than retail banking/wealth management....they would be places that have high concentrationos of venture capitalists, asset management, stock brokers, investment bankers, fund managers, etc.

Charlotte is definitely diversifying into these areas, but the cities I listed above employ far greater numbers of people than Charlotte in "financial activies".

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Charlotte is not in the top 30 international financial centers. I cringe when I hear it called one of the largest financial centers; it's only home to two very large banks and TIAA-CREFF. It's progessing, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Edited by moonshield
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NYC, Boston, San Francisco, and Chicago are more financial centers than Charlotte.

LA, Seattle, Philly are probably at least equal or slightly greater financial centers than Charlotte.

Charlotte keeps getting named the 2nd largest banking center in the U.S., which is really just a measure of assets of company with HQs in Charlotte.

Financial Centers include more than retail banking/wealth management....they would be places that have high concentrationos of venture capitalists, asset management, stock brokers, investment bankers, fund managers, etc.

Charlotte is definitely diversifying into these areas, but the cities I listed above employ far greater numbers of people than Charlotte in "financial activies".

Help me out - how are Philly and Seattle even equal?

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Charlotte is not in the top 30 international financial centers. I cringe when I hear it called one of the largest financial centers; it's only home to two very large banks and TIAA-CREFF. It's progessing, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I wasn't speaking in international terms. If that's the standard, less than a handful of US cities could be considered financial centers.

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I wasn't speaking in international terms. If that's the standard, less than a handful of US cities could be considered financial centers.

It's an interesting question. As finance centers go, we surely trail NYC, LA, Chicago, and Washington, DC - Chicago, LA and Washington, to a significant extent, due to a robust and far-reaching private equity scene, not necessarily due to any significant consumer banking presence. If you stack Charlotte against all true money centers, however, Charlotte's really the only one that doesn't have much else that it's noteworthy for. I'm trying to come up with an analogy, but unfortunately the only one I can come up with is probably inappropriate. Oh well. The point is that it's a banking center and an up-and-coming finance hotspot, but it looks even more significant to outsiders because of the lack of anything else to divert attention.

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It's an interesting question. As finance centers go, we surely trail NYC, LA, Chicago, and Washington, DC - Chicago, LA and Washington, to a significant extent, due to a robust and far-reaching private equity scene, not necessarily due to any significant consumer banking presence. If you stack Charlotte against all true money centers, however, Charlotte's really the only one that doesn't have much else that it's noteworthy for. I'm trying to come up with an analogy, but unfortunately the only one I can come up with is probably inappropriate. Oh well. The point is that it's a banking center and an up-and-coming finance hotspot, but it looks even more significant to outsiders because of the lack of anything else to divert attention.

DC? Really would've never thought that... Everyone that I've ever known that lives in DC has some government related job not finanical. CapitalOne is the only finanical related company I can think of there and they are actually in NOVA. In fact, most of my DC friends think of Charlotte as the financial hub of the south.

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I wasn't speaking in international terms. If that's the standard, less than a handful of US cities could be considered financial centers.

It really depends upon what one means by financial center.

It should be noted that Bank of America and Wachovia as HQ'd here in Charlotte are actually holding companies. That is they are made up of subsidiaries that have different responsibilities such as the retail bank or investment banking which may not actually be based in Charlotte. So if you are talking about actual financial matters then more cities than one would think would make the list. For example when Nationsbank took over C&S, the actual retail bank was HQ'd in Atlanta and I believe there are still significant operations there, maybe more so than Charlotte. Likewise when First Union took over Wachovia, the retail bank was left in Winston-Salem. Could Atlanta and Winston-Salem be called financial centers as a result, most likely.

Another way to measure it is that BofA has 190,000 employees, yet less than 10% of this number works in CLT. Does this mean that 90% of the work they do actually takes place elsewhere?

I should imagine that much of BofA's and Wachovia's operations here in Charlote, in the HQ are all about bean counting, corporate management, and development activites. These are things that all large corporations do. Duke for example does all of this in Charlotte, and they are one of the largest energy companies in the world, but no one really would call Charlotte an energy center.

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Well if Charlotte isn't an important financial hub, then I'm not sure that it has any "claim to fame". I know when I think of Charlotte, the first thing that comes to mind is BofA and Wachovia. Then I think of its pretty downtown area, but I doubt that's something that will garner national attention.

I know this may sound strange, but I've always wished Charlotte would try to invest in attracting videogames headquarters :P .

Edited by brokenraven
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^I think it is better known for its ties to NASCAR. Maybe not as much so now that they renamed the Charlotte Motor Speedway into the Lowes Motor Speedway.

From growing up here, and looking at the time-line of Charlottes growth spurts, it would be hard to deny the links to the growth of NASCAR and the growth of the city. For all the talk on here about people around the country who do, or don't, know where Charlotte is or whether the NC attachment is still necessary, I bet if polled you'd find a larger percentage of NASCAR fans who can find us on the map than most others. I would almost guess the numbers would be considerably higher.

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What is the difference? Even Forbes magazine refers to Charlotte as a financial center. I think it would be hard to say that, with 2 of the biggest banks in the nation headquartered here, that Charlotte doesn't offer a pretty broad range of financial services. Obviously not on par with NYC or what have you, but pretty significant nonetheless. And I'd venture to say that we're ahead of significantly larger areas, such as Atlanta, when it comes down to it.

In addition to what's already been said, page 35 of this report also shows that Charlotte isn't really a heavy hitter in the financial services sector in the U.S.--at least not yet. Overall, I think Charlotte really does need to do a better job of developing stronger economic profiles in sectors besides banking.

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In addition to what's already been said, page 35 of this report also shows that Charlotte isn't really a heavy hitter in the financial services sector in the U.S.--at least not yet. Overall, I think Charlotte really does need to do a better job of developing stronger economic profiles in sectors besides banking.

Thanks for that report.

Charlotte's economy is somewhat interesting. Page 61. Look at its GDP compared to its peers.

Edited by moonshield
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We had family in town for the weekend. Their perspective of Charlotte is one of a LARGE city. They live in Louisville, KY. We had adults and also a 7 year old boy and 11 year old girl. It was the perfect weekend to have to keep everyone busy. Other than the typical Thanksgiving activities of eating and socializing, we had a parade at our doorstep (sadly I haven't been to a Charlotte Thanksgiving parade in over 30 years until this past week!). Additional activities that kept everyone busy and by the end of the day worn out...all without driving at all:

Ice Skating at The Green

Hockey Game friday night

Ride the free train on Saturday

Bobcats on Saturday

Lunch at Brixx

Discovery Place

They left with Homes & Land and Real Estate brochures...

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Alright, so it may sound like fudging, but you're all right.

Charlotte IS a finance hub while at the same time not. Here's how:

We all know Charlotte is home to BofA and Wachovia, as well as BB&T Investments. So, on that count, Charlotte is. However...

Columbia and Evergreen funds are still mostly run out of Boston, and with the exception of a few IB shops (Mr. McColl's various and numerous adventures come to mind) and even fewer botique investment management firms, Charlotte doesn't have much in the way of financial services.

Take Philly, for one example. Tons of hedge funds, PE, derivatives shops, defeasement outfits, etc. The only hedge funds I'm aware of in NC are in the Triangle, and the one Charlotte did have went bust when one of the Principals got sticky fingers.

If and when Charlotte starts to attract multi-billion dollar financial services firms not attached to BAC, BBT, WB or Mr. McColl, then it will become a major financial services player. Until then, it is both literally and figuratively a banking town.

Personally, I'm hoping this happens sooner than later, because I'm itching to get back...

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^ You appear to want to get back already, and it may be about that time for singles and young professionals. I have friends living in California (various), NYC and Boston who left Charlotte for reasons many have noted before such as the family town/little nightlife feel. They are in the financial [services] industry and without exception have a view of "waiting" for Charlotte to mature so they can return from their current locations and continue that "hip" lifestyle that CLT did not afford them 5 and 10 years ago.

One such friend never sold his house right outside of 277, and has watched it double and then triple in value. In 2-3 years he'll be able to convert that into a nice high-rise condo when current builds are all on the market. Perhaps at that time Charlotte will begin to become a hip place for a certain class of professionals which will really begin to change the national perception.

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I know its still early but I have to wonder if outside observers will consider Charlotte to be one of the more progressive cities in the South as a result of the 70-30 vote? That was a very strong endorsement of modern urban development from a town that has a national reputation as a relatively conservative place. Afterall even Seattle rejected transit on Tuesday (I do know that that was a more complicated issue)

just thinking out loud....

I was thinking the same thing but we have two things going against us IMHO - we're still perceived to be in the "old South" in the minds of so-called progressives in the Northeast and West and our primary competitor city-state is Atlanta - home to major media outlets that perpetuate the notion that the "new South" world revolves around Peachtree Street. Nevertheless it will become harder and harder to ignore Charlotte if she continues along this major growth spurt and successfully attracts outlets like RISD and major retail to her core. At that point, I would argue "how cares what other people think..."

Edited by Phillydog
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I have two stories...

I was in Jacksonville, Fla. for the weekend to watch the Jaguars masacre the Panthers (12.9.2007)...

1. A couple sitting in front of us at the game realized me and my buddy were from Charlotte. The guy said he'd been to Charlotte for a football game a couple of years ago and that he thought it was the MOST friendly city he'd ever been to. He talked about fans at the game and people he encountered out and about in the city. It was nice to hear...

2. The lady sitting down from me didn't like a call made on the field (hard to believe if you watched the game) and she asked aloud, "where did they get these refs from (sic), SC?" I leaned over and asked her, "you do know that Charlotte is in NC don't you?" She responded that NC and SC were all the same to her...Carolina. I'd like to note that several of her teeth were missing and she was about as rough a person (let alone lady) I've ever seen at a football game.

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I have two stories...

..

2. The lady sitting down from me didn't like a call made on the field (hard to believe if you watched the game) and she asked aloud, "where did they get these refs from (sic), SC?" I leaned over and asked her, "you do know that Charlotte is in NC don't you?" She responded that NC and SC were all the same to her...Carolina.

It's funny outside of NC and SC everyone else think of the Carolinas as one. I'm from Landover, MD now residing in Columbia,SC. And to be honest I've always thought of both Carolinas as one. But Charlotte is a new kid on the block and haven't had all the exposure other southern cities have experience such as Atl, Miami, NO, Memphis but is on it's way to leaving it's mark. I think when Charlotte's Uptown develops more into something unique more people will catch on. The city itself are taking the right steps into becoming something great but it takes time. It just isn't going to happen over night. But the way the entire south is growing right now I expect most of the Carolina cities such as Charlotte,Raliegh and Columbia to pass older cities such as Richmond and Baltimore. But for right now when people think of Charlotte they think of Bank of America and Wachovia.

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While the Panthers are located in Charlotte, the team is not supposed to be a "Charlotte" team, it's a regional team. That's why it's the Carolina Panthers, not the Charlotte Panthers. Remember that the Panther's logo (the panther head) is actually North AND South Carolina combined and tilted at an angle and that at BOA Stadium, we fly both the North and South Carolina flags. While I wish the Panthers were solely Charlotte's, the intent is for them not to be. I think that the woman at the game was mistaken, but actually correct in her miscalculations.

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Wow, talk about singing Charlotte's praises. According to them, we have arrived when it comes to luxury shopping and concentration of wealth. They give quite a nice synopsis of Charlotte's monetary statistics.

Some of the numbers listed:

  • Projected 2007 median household income for Mecklenburg County is $65,741
  • 6.7 percent of households will have income in excess of $200,000,
  • Nearly 70 percent of Charlotte's working population has white-collar jobs
  • 10 percent of the 855,100 residents has earned a master's, professional or doctorate degree
  • Last year, 6.5 percent of households had a net worth in excess of $1 million, excluding the value of their primary residences

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