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Gangway1111

Shops, housing planned for Kmart site in Troy

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Troy officials need to realize (incase they don't) that this isn't going to be completed in their lifetime. You cannot just create a downtown out of nowhere. Downtowns are historic and business districts that are the origin of a city, and a suburban Troy isn't that, with Royal Oak and Birmingham as exceptions. And by that time, Downtown Detroit will be the crown jewel of southeast Michigan, not Big Squirrel, or Skunk, or Beaver.

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Wow, what a heated response. :blink:

Troy has just as much of a chance to develope a strong downtown as any other city. It already has the wealth to do so. Downtown Detroit may and will be the crown jewel of southeastern Michigan, but that dosn't mean that other down towns cant develope as well. Troy specifically has the most chance to develope a new downtown due to its wealth and exsisting institutions. There is a lot of parking lot space on 16 mile between the roads and the tall office buildings that is more than enough space to develope streetside perdestrian friendly reatial and mixed development. As far as history goes, all history has to start somewhere, and it looks like downtown Troys starts here. :silly:

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I personally doubt that this development will foster the same kinds of downtown social interactions that they think it will. It's nice that they're trying though.

But at the same time, the developer could just go to the real downtown. Why reinvent the wheel.

But like it has been said before here, first people move out of the city to get away from work and the city and everything. Then they bring their work with them, and now they're brining the city with them. In the big picture, it just looks like a waste of billions of dollars, and tons of land.

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I'm not saying it won't happen, just not in our lifetime. Troy will have a so-called downtown -- I'll tell my children to enjoy it.

Are you noticing how long Detroit is taking to even develop one block. Woodward hasen't even come close to a world-class blvd, and planning/work was supposed to have started since Hudson's was demolished. What we're noticing in Detroit is how long it takes for something to move from vision to reality, and Detroit has an established downtown, unlike Troy.

Can some urban planner(s) here confirm or deny my unexperienced theory? :)

sorry about my first post, seems like I responded to the issue of downtown Troy and not the K-mart Development. I think that one looks great, but Fountain Walk, Main St. Novi, and other fake downtowns make me wonder how likely this will not be as successfull as perceived. Don't get me wrong, I love Troy. I live there.

By the way, welcome to the thread. ;)

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I'm not saying it won't happen, just not in our lifetime. Troy will have a so-called downtown -- I'll tell my children to enjoy it.

Are you noticing how long Detroit is taking to even develop one block. Woodward hasen't even come close to a world-class blvd, and planning/work was supposed to have started since Hudson's was demolished. What we're noticing in Detroit is how long it takes for something to move from vision to reality, and Detroit has an established downtown, unli Troy.

Can some urban planner(s) here confirm or deny my unexperienced theory? :)

sorry about my first post, seems like I responded to the issue of downtown Troy and not the K-mart Development. I think that one looks great, but Fountain Walk, Main St. Novi, and other fake downtowns make me wonder how likely this will not be as successfull as perceived. Don't get me wrong, I love Troy. I live there.

By the way, welcome to the thread. ;)

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Those blocks aren't being developed really fast because downtown Detroit has some problems. Troy doesn't have a lot of these problems. Even aside from these problems, it easier to develop a huge empty lot than it is to develop something in a downtown, which is one of the reasons why suburbs are so popular.

But even though doing something downtown would be more difficult, I think it would be more rewarding, but that's just me. :)

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Wow, my first topic thread is getting more attention than I thought. :tough: Thanks.

What Big Beaver lacks right now is street side retail. The Retail that exsist is behind massive seas of parking lots. However from what I have heard form people who live there and attend development meetings is that they plan on expanding the sidewalk to 30 feet wide, with enough space for Royal Oak Style alfresco dinning areas. Retail and mixed use structures of the nature one would find in a more traditional mainstreet setting would be built on the parking area between exsisting development ( the many office towers) and the new side walks, leaving less parking between. On the otherside would be new parking structures to make up for the loss of parking. So it would be (going from 16 mile out) Street in the middle, 30ft side walks on both sides, then retail and mixed resedental, then some surface parking(reduced in size), then exsisting office towers, then new parking structures. I would think you guys would be thrilled about this, they are replaceing inefficent surface parking lots with retail and mixed use development (Something they should be doing in Downtown Detroit) and they are making 16 mile more pedestrian friendly.

Troy is also planning on connecting 16 mile and downtown Birmingham with some kind of system (bus, trolleys, not sure which) to the new transit center in Troy, which coupled with the inevetable epansion of the AA/Metro Air Port/ New Center Commuter Train service up to Pontiac with stops at Royal Oak and Birmingham, it will mean that a lot of people will be able to access this new Downtown area with out a car.

Maybee I have an easier time envisioning this, and not much ability to convey that vision to others, regardless, it all sounds pretty exciting to me. :thumbsup:

Thanks again for paying attention to my post.

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Nothing quite like sitting at a sidewalk cafe along Big Beaver. Cant wait.

From the rendering I saw of this project it looked like it was surrounded by parking structures. Not quite urban when you walk 10 feet outside the inner ring to find suburban sprawl and parking structures. The scale of Big Beaver is also a problem imo for creating an urban feeling. I just wish that these developers, mostly the in state ones, would realize that SE Michigan has an authentic urban setting in downtown Detroit, where they could get a lot more bang for their buck if they are gonna invest this kind of money. Existing roads, parks, and urban authenticity, instead of creating and "urban island" surrounded by sprawl and Big Beaver. Hopefully the market continues to show that people want that authenticity and not the glorified lifestyle centers that are being proposed.

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Can some urban planner(s) here confirm or deny my unexperienced theory? :)

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Michi, no opposing viewpoint here. I am from Troy, but I'm pround to say that I'm from Detroit. I don't need to listen to that outsider that says "no, really, where are you really from?" everytime I say I'm from Detroit.

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http://www.birchlerarroyo.com/Clients/troy.htm

http://www.birchlerarroyo.com/Clients/Troy.../Part%20Two.pdf

Here's gangway's vision into perspective. Seems like Big Beaver would be further expanded by adding pedestrian friendly side lanes on each side, each with it's own island seperating it from the main street. Personally, I don't like the street layout, mainly because I don't like islands in downtowns. Michigan Avenue in Chicago is a perfect example of a world-class boulavard, and it's not even a boulavard. Oh hell, this whole this is wrong -- wrong, wrong, wrong. :angry: ............ :( ............ :) ........... ;)

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Reminds me of the Easton Center in Columbus. Except Easton is more complex and more interesting than what this appears to be.

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The "side streets" wouldn't expand the overall width of the road. And it won't be any different than what you see in Europe or South America.

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yeah it wont be downtown like....i see it more like FountainWalk in Novi, which is cool since its different from the rest of troy i guess...it'll give troy a spot for people to chill at and hang out

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I don't think it'll be anything like Fountain Walk. This is incorporating hundreds of residential units as well as lots of other "mixed-used" features. It's the next step in "lifestyle centers" in that it is bringing more than just commercial retail.

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I'm really excited for this development, but I just wish it incorporated more high-density development. I frequent Troy often, and it definitely needs to be more pedestrian friendly.

By the way, here's the (really crappy) website for the project.

link

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I'm really excited for this development, but I just wish it incorporated more high-density development. I frequent Troy often, and it definitely needs to be more pedestrian friendly.

link

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When I think of Troy developing a downtown, I envision something along the lines of Mississauga in Metro Toronto.

They should send a few representatives.

060328L.jpg

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I don't think the people in Troy would want to do something like that though. After all, where would everybody park?;)

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Just pretend those trees in the background are actually a landscaped parking lot. :)

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I think parking for most of those buildings is on the lower floors. Really, being high up is the only think marketable in those high rise units. Might as well start the first floor of condos as high up as possible.

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