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The Greensboro Triumph Center


cityboi

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150,000 square feet isn't enough space for a major corporate relocation, but it is large enough for a small to mid-sized company such as a community bank or a business around the sizes mentioned earlier in this sentence. I could see a company along the lines of RF Micro, Carolina Bank, or Lincoln Financial (if they're still committed to Greensboro) setting up shop in that space. It's not very likely at all they'll increase the square footage due to the lackluster office market in the Triad, but it is possible (if they have a tenant in mind that wants a larger amount of space).

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Ive added the 30-story Center Pointe II tower that developer Roy Caroll could build. Pretty impressive huh? and these buildings could actually get built. I think it will be at least 5 years before Roy Caroll decides to even move forward with Center Pointe II.

Center Pointe II would block the 21-story Wachovia Tower from this view though. I haven't even added the planned Federal Courthouse in the picture which could be between 15-18 stories. The problem is that funding has been delayed due to the Iraq war. otherwise this thing would have been under construction last year. But realistically if Triumph Center is built and Roy Caroll moves forward with Center Pointe II, Greensboro's skyline has a chance of looking similar to this.

The Boro

NEWCITYVIEW3.JPG

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Very nice! You might want to drop Center Pointe II about 100 or more feet. It looks like you have it at around 400 feet. Most residential buildings have 10 foot ceilings while office towers have 15 foot ceilings.

actually I based the height on the old Wachovia Building. If Roy Caroll builds Center Pointe II, the ceiling heights would likely be the same (to keep the scale of the two buildings consistant) which means What I have is about right. In other words at 30-stories Center Pointe II would be about twice the height as Center Pointe I. Remember Center Pointe use to be an office building so we are using office building ceiling heights. Roy Caroll's first vision rendering also reflects this. Not to get of the subject

park_central_plaza.jpg

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Downtown Greensboro Inc just reported that the center-city saw an estimated $110 million in renovations and new construction in fiscal year 2006-07. $345 million in projects are currently under consideration

Downtown additions included 26 new businesses and 77 new residential units, with nearly 500 more under construction. Several developers are considering projects downtown. If these projects are built, there would be an additional 600 housing units and several hundred thousand square feet of commercial space.

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Hopes aside, this prospects for this project seem to be FAR from being realized at any point in the near future. While I don't profess to know how the development biz works, some aspects of this project seem to defy common development practice. For one the aforementioned developer raised the price tag by 100 million dollars on the project, a significant amount, BEFORE having secured the land needed for the project, not to mention the fact that his communication with city leaders appears to be scant and I should think with any project this scale communication with city leaders at the initial stages is critical if everything is line up right.

More importantly, the project simply seems to be way too ambitous and a lot of the aspects of the project don't seem to make any economic sense at all. The conference center and hotel for one seem way too ambitous given that Greensboro already has Koury Convention Center, Grandover, and the facilities at the Coliseum to accomodate meetings and convetions, more than enough given the demographics of the area. Any consideration of high end retail too would have to contend with Four Seasons, The Shops at Friendly as well, both within a short distance of downtown. If this where Charlotte, the Triangle or even Greenville SC, for that matter, I think this project would make some sense but as downtown development stands right now in the Triad I don't see how Greensboro or Winston could support something of this scale.

While I know many love all that is implicated in the project (and who wouldn't) I think that one must be a tad skeptical about any project that purports to bring all the keys to redevelopment in one nice, neat package. Greensboro has some good things going for it and it would be a shame if it were to chase after one mega-project that will be VERY difficult to conceive. The city can't afford to divert too many precious resources to a project on such precarious ground and if the track record of other projects this size is an indicator this is precarious ground indeed. While I think most people here would love to see this come to fruition I think there is, in all fairness, plenty of room to be skeptical about the project.

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I disagree that its too ambitous. I think people have been under-estimating Greensboro and Winston-Salem quite frankly, and these two cities are capable of so much more. I think people need to get rid of old perceptions about the Triad cities because time after time they have proven people wrong. If this were proposed anywhere else, even smaller cities like Greenville, SC, Chattanooga TN, people would have the feeling it would happen. Why there is a perception Greensboro seems to be the only mid-sized city in the south that cant have these kind of things beats me. I do think this project has been handled out of the ordianary, but at the same time its not an ordinary project. I think there is a reason this project is so secret. Maybe disclosing everything too soon would kill the project. We just have to be patient. I think Greensboro can support two convention centers in my opinion. I think there are times when the Koury is booked on certain dates, the downtown convention center can handle other conventions. Consider the fact that Raleigh's downtown conventon center will have 500,000 square feet of convention space. The Koury Convention Center and the downtown Convention Center combined would equal aout 500,000 square feet. Its not about the number of convention centers, its about the amount of convention space. Just look at the two convention centers as being one facilty with 500,000 square feet.

As for the entertainment and restaurant venues in this project, there wont be a problem there. certainly downtown and the Triad for that matter could support more restaurants, a bowling alley, skating rink and the other entertainment attractions mentioned.

In the residential aspect of it, people are imediately skeptical when they see this project has over 200 units. But keep in mind the bulk of those units are apartments and there is a pretty good demand for downtown apartments. In actuality there are only about 50 condos in this project which is defiantly doable.

As for the office space, yes 150,000 square feet is quite a bit of space in a soft office market but keep in mind there may be a company or companies looking to locate downtown and see this project as a means to do it. There are a number of things we dont know about just yet. and maybe some companies dont want it to be known yet they are looking at downtown, much like the 15-story office tower that was suppose to be built next to First Horizon Park. Nobody knew about the company's interest in downtown or the tower itself until after the deal fell through and most still dont know about it. and we still dont know the identity of the company that was interested.

All in all this project is doable. Apparently the finacing for this is there. There are enough big time developers and financing companies involved in this to make it work. I think the developers and the community just have to have the will to make it happen.

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I keep hearing about all these big time developers and financing companies that are associated with this project but I have yet to see any names. It's all speculation. While it's always nice to dream I'd say basket1058 is heading in the right direction by being skeptical. Once we get some cold hard facts then we can talk about the feasibility of this project and what it means for Greensboro's future.

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I keep hearing about all these big time developers and financing companies that are associated with this project but I have yet to see any names. It's all speculation. While it's always nice to dream I'd say basket1058 is heading in the right direction by being skeptical. Once we get some cold hard facts then we can talk about the feasibility of this project and what it means for Greensboro's future.

The big developers are there. Their names are just not public. LOL this is not some secret conspiracy. What you dont see, doesnt mean its not there.

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If this project is built as proposed it will be a regional draw. That region will be southern VA, The Triad, and occasionally the Triangle and Charlotte. I don't care what Greensboro and Guilford County's demographic are. Downtown Greensboro is a regional draw from Thursdays to Sundays and its only going to get better. Any time you can't drive down a downtown's main street (Elm St) at 2 and 3 in the morning, and the police have to shut it down due to the high volumes of people after 3, you know that area is special.

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If this project is built as proposed it will be a regional draw. That region will be southern VA, The Triad, and occasionally the Triangle and Charlotte. I don't care what Greensboro and Guilford County's demographic are. Downtown Greensboro is a regional draw from Thursdays to Sundays and its only going to get better. Any time you can't drive down a downtown's main street (Elm St) at 2 and 3 in the morning, and the police have to shut it down due to the high volumes of people after 3, you know that area is special.

Amen to that! I think downtown Greensboro has already proven itself its downtown can attract people from afar.....maybe thats the basis for why the developers involved think this project will be a success in downtown Greensboro.

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Any time you can't drive down a downtown's main street (Elm St) at 2 and 3 in the morning, and the police have to shut it down due to the high volumes of people after 3, you know that area is special.

Actually, you know that area's main street is only two lanes and has an insufficient # of cross streets. Elm street congestion at any time of day (like during work hours when delivery trucks park in the middle due to lack of alleys & intersections) isn't a sign of Greensboro's being big-time so much as poorly planned. I agree that downtown nightlife has certainly boomed in the past few years, but you'll see congested main drags in college towns across America when the bars close.

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Actually, you know that area's main street is only two lanes and has an insufficient # of cross streets. Elm street congestion at any time of day (like during work hours when delivery trucks park in the middle due to lack of alleys & intersections) isn't a sign of Greensboro's being big-time so much as poorly planned. I agree that downtown nightlife has certainly boomed in the past few years, but you'll see congested main drags in college towns across America when the bars close.

true but its rare to see that kind of traffic 3 am in the morning.

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I disagree that its too ambitous. I think people have been under-estimating Greensboro and Winston-Salem quite frankly, and these two cities are capable of so much more.

I completly agree. People are continuing to move to the Triad and we need to look to the future. I am still shocked at what things other areas have that the Triad has not attracted. I really like Old Salem, but the Triad is more than just our history. We need to be respectful of what we have been, but not willing to live in the past. Residents get excited when we get a new Target or Wal-Mart. We need to stop acting like Mt. Airy (lovely small town that it is) and think bigger.

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Creasy336

Any time you can't drive down a downtown's main street (Elm St) at 2 and 3 in the morning, and the police have to shut it down due to the high volumes of people after 3, you know that area is special.

I would agree that downtown nightlife is really picking up but the city needs to do something about the cruising and loitering on the weekends. Elm Street is fast becoming similar to how High Point Road or Main Street (High Point) were years ago with people not patronizing the establishments and instead hanging out on the streets. I have heard from a handful of women that say they no longer feel safe going out downtown on the weekends in Greensboro because of all the people hanging out on the streets yelling at them. It seems many of them are heading in the direction of Battleground to hangout at Tap Room, Backstreets and the like. I have heard that some downtown bars and businesses are looking to get some type of "no loitering" laws established for downtown.

If they want all these people to start buying downtown condos (just to stay on topic here) they need to keep a close eye on the nightlife in this area an make sure that it doesn't become a headache to go out downtown.

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Creasy336

Any time you can't drive down a downtown's main street (Elm St) at 2 and 3 in the morning, and the police have to shut it down due to the high volumes of people after 3, you know that area is special.

I would agree that downtown nightlife is really picking up but the city needs to do something about the cruising and loitering on the weekends. Elm Street is fast becoming similar to how High Point Road or Main Street (High Point) were years ago with people not patronizing the establishments and instead hanging out on the streets. I have heard from a handful of women that say they no longer feel safe going out downtown on the weekends in Greensboro because of all the people hanging out on the streets yelling at them. It seems many of them are heading in the direction of Battleground to hangout at Tap Room, Backstreets and the like. I have heard that some downtown bars and businesses are looking to get some type of "no loitering" laws established for downtown.

If they want all these people to start buying downtown condos (just to stay on topic here) they need to keep a close eye on the nightlife in this area an make sure that it doesn't become a headache to go out downtown.

There are alot of people hanging out, but at the same time the existing resturants, bars, and clubs are packed. There is also a heavy police force out there in the midst of crowd that makes its prescence known. Cruising and loitering are usually bad, but in this case I think its a good thing. hear me out...Some people just like to be walking around enjoying themselves in an urban or park environment. Greensboro city center park was full of people at the 3 in the morning, no one was causing trouble, everyone was enjoying the atmosphere that no other city in the state provides. As far as crusing goes parking is tight, plus people want to be seen. Whether they're riding in a Phantom or just on a motorcycle. Elm St is really a spectacle at night. As the downtown activity spreads to other streets downtown Greensboro will become even better.

In response to an earlier post. Downtown Greensboro street grid is over done for its core. As far as North South Streets you have 5-6 Lane Elm-Eugene, and 4 Lane Spring/Edgeworth Street ( 2 lanes 1 way ), and lastly 6 lane Morrow Blvd. Any time you make a street pedestrian friendly you are going to have problems with traffic. If you don't believe me go on Spring Garden St near UNC-G during almost anytime of the day. This road had its turning lanes removed and was made narrow for bike lanes removing space for cars to make turns out of the way. Traffic jams backup from Holden Rd all the way to UNC-G

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personally I dont think all downtown roads need to be pedestrian friendly because there should be some roads to help carry heavy traffic throughout downtown and the more development we see downtown, the more traffic there will be, especially if the Triumph Center is built. I think that one development can start a chain reaction for other big things. But there should be alot of pedestrian friendly roads downtown for street level development which I think is very important to the success of downtown. I think there needs to be alot more work around that ballpark.

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Creasy336 As far as cruising goes parking is tight, plus people want to be seen.

Parking is not tight (even the city report said there was adequate parking) with the multiple street front parking spaces, the Mcgee/Greene Street Lots, and the various parking decks. If you can't find a parking space there are a few places that will valet your car for you so you don't have to worry about parking it yourself. And if you want to be seen go into a club/bar and buy some drinks or go dance.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with going to the park or walking around with some friends at night. It's one thing if you are out for walk in the evening to enjoy the scene or moving from bar to bar but when you are camped out in your car/motorcycle in a parking space or on a street corner you aren't helping the downtown scene. It doesn't bother me any as I usually hang out at the local pub but it is disheartening to hear that people are already beginning to get turned off by downtown. Downtown Charlotte started to have this same problem a few years ago and the city had to step in and take charge. Maybe the congestion will get better as places open up off Elm Street. If this Triumph Center ever happens it could be a good draw to spread things out.

Sorry if this is :offtopic: but I think it all has to do with the future development of downtown and the success of projects like the Triumph Center.

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