Jump to content

The Greensboro Triumph Center


cityboi

Recommended Posts


  • Replies 781
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Elm St. does have a good nightlife scene but good nightlife is not the one economic indicator people look for when backing a project of this scope. Several have gone to pains to say that this is a "Regional" draw but crowning a new project as some kind of destination won't make it one, even destinations tend to follow where there are gobs of money or there is already something of a destination in place (like Busch Gardens in Williamsburg) though Greensboro will be in that position, I simply don't think it can purport to be a regional destination when its still not THE city destination to go to (urban enthusiasts aside). The reason I think Greenville or Chattanooga could put this together is that they already are local destinations where visitors and residents alike go to first, a situation that makes spakrs a chain reaction of newer, and more ambitous projects.

Also, at the risk of fanning the speculative flames even more, there is a Louisville project posted over at SkyscraperPage (link here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=136575 ) which seems to be highly indicative of what one can expect. Most notably the project, while only 50 million dollars less than the Triumph Center, seems to consist of some decidedly more simple chain tenants than the ones suggsted here, despite being in a city with a stronger stranglehold on the respective region there. When comparing the two I have to wonder about the accuracy of the Triumph Center's price tag cause when one compares the two projects it seems that the project seems rather top heavy on features even at the 300 million dollar level, something which seems to underscore the abstract nature of this project.

Finally I take umbrage to the idea that those who are skeptical of this project simply aren't thinking big enough or underselling the area's potential. Listen, i'd like to think that the Triad can support all thse proposed urban projects and more but when I look at the progress in the market and the time it takes to get projects up and running I don't see how the market can support an urban project of this scale. I will be the first to say though that if this get built in its entirety, i'll gladly dine on crow for that day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Louisville project certainly seems to be similar to what is being discussed for Greensboro and the suggested tenants for that project seem more along the lines of what I'd expect to see in the Triumph project.

cityboi honestly I don't see why this project wouldn't work

Here are a few of the reasons I could think of for why this project might not work:

[*]The city doesn't approve the final project

[*]With an impending election and possible change in city leadership we could have different growth policies in place when this project actually is ready to be built

[*]The developer can't buy the necessary land (Lincoln isn't going to give it's land away, neither is the city of Greensboro or The Weaver Foundation)

[*]Financing falls through (money is becoming harder to get by the minute, even with talk of a possible Federal interest rate cut)

[*]The financiers or anyone else involved sees that the demographics of the city can't support the project

[*]The initial letter of credit is revoked due to the latest economic shift

[*]The financial organization that is involved goes bankrupt due to all the loan foreclosures occurring with the spreading credit crisis

[*]The economic feasibility studies come back unfavorable

[*]The environmental impact studies come back unfavorable

[*]Pre-sales of the residential don't start off well (there are still a number of unsold condos downtown and others that will be built before this project)

[*]The developers can't land any of these potential tenants for their office or retail space

[*]The economy takes a further negative slide (I know it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hey citiboi, i love your renderings with the additions to the city's skyline. now that is what Greensboro should look like in the next few years. i can't wait. i was actually thinking the high rise hotel would be over near the old chevrolet dealership. i wonder what is going to be built there???? great place for another tall skyscraper wouldn't you say? please do anther drawing and add the proposed federal courthouse and where it will possibly be located.

thanks man and please keep these great ideas and rendering coming. i love them and maybe, just maybe they will be a reality soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Louisville project certainly seems to be similar to what is being discussed for Greensboro and the suggested tenants for that project seem more along the lines of what I'd expect to see in the Triumph project.

cityboi honestly I don't see why this project wouldn't work

Here are a few of the reasons I could think of for why this project might not work:

  • The city doesn't approve the final project

  • With an impending election and possible change in city leadership we could have different growth policies in place when this project actually is ready to be built

  • The developer can't buy the necessary land (Lincoln isn't going to give it's land away, neither is the city of Greensboro or The Weaver Foundation)

  • Financing falls through (money is becoming harder to get by the minute, even with talk of a possible Federal interest rate cut)

  • The financiers or anyone else involved sees that the demographics of the city can't support the project

  • The initial letter of credit is revoked due to the latest economic shift

  • The financial organization that is involved goes bankrupt due to all the loan foreclosures occurring with the spreading credit crisis

  • The economic feasibility studies come back unfavorable

  • The environmental impact studies come back unfavorable

  • Pre-sales of the residential don't start off well (there are still a number of unsold condos downtown and others that will be built before this project)

  • The developers can't land any of these potential tenants for their office or retail space

  • The economy takes a further negative slide (I know it’s really not that bad and that the GDP for Q2 was up 4% but the credit problems will have their effect in Q3&Q4)

  • There really are no “big time developers or financers” involved with the project

  • The project has gone from a $150 million project to a $300 million large scale project and now it’s been mentioned that it could be on a smaller scale (vast changes in direction usually means there’s a lot of dreaming)

  • The city couldn’t support the few retailers that were open downtown so how can we support a large scale project of retailers

  • The necessary public funds and tax incentives are not enough to make the project happen

  • Cain doesn’t have the credentials or the knowledge to pull the project off

  • Cain simply can’t raise enough capital to make the project work

  • Actual land acquisition or construction costs come in higher than expected and there isn’t enough money to make the project work or it has to be scaled down in size

Those are just possibility NOT whats neccisarily going to happen. I could say a tornado could come through downtown and tear everything up next year.

hey citiboi, i love your renderings with the additions to the city's skyline. now that is what Greensboro should look like in the next few years. i can't wait. i was actually thinking the high rise hotel would be over near the old chevrolet dealership. i wonder what is going to be built there???? great place for another tall skyscraper wouldn't you say? please do anther drawing and add the proposed federal courthouse and where it will possibly be located.

thanks man and please keep these great ideas and rendering coming. i love them and maybe, just maybe they will be a reality soon.

Thanks! I believe they will be a reality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are just possibility NOT whats neccisarily going to happen. I could say a tornado could come through downtown and tear everything up next year.

Yeah, and it's not a sure thing this project is going to happen either. For everyone who has an interest in this, you don't, I repeat don't know that this is going to happen for sure. ANYTHING can happen. Some of you may want to look into all the pieces it takes to put a development together. It's not as simple as having a dream, getting a group of investors together, and then building (trust me).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cityboi Those are just possibility NOT whats neccisarily going to happen. I could say a tornado could come through downtown and tear everything up next year.

Well it is now clear that you have zero knowledge of how a large scale development is put together and that any attempt to explain some of the basic business points in such a project is useless.

I was simply answering the question of why this project might not happen in simple business terms, giving POSSIBLE obstacles that must be overcome.

Looks like I'll just wait for the groundbreaking............

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of the feasibility of this project including a new convention center, I'd definitely say there is a market for that. Other venues around town were mentioned, such as the Coliseum Complex, Koury Convention Center, and Grandover. And while those venues do have the capacity to accomodate loads of people, what's the draw to those places beyond that? For people who arrive to those destinations sans personal vehicle, what can they walk to? And please don't say Four Seasons Mall. I've been to three conventions at Koury and once you've done the mall thing once, it gets old. Greensboro is strengthening its urban fabric downtown, and I think it would be feasible to expose convention-goers to all of the urban amenities that Greensboro has to offer--which will be within walking distance from a downtown convention center.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well its interesting because Justin Catanoso with the Triad Business Journal reported this morning on WFMY about how local developers have said they think there is a market for all the elements in the Triumph Center and other projects downtown including the convention center. So Issac Cain's proposal might not be pie in the sky after all.

Justin also reported that a boutique hotel could be attached to the Elm Street Center which has a comedy club, Churhills' Resaurant and the Empire Room and 70,000 square feet of space for meetings. The folks at Elm Street Center want a hotel there. Now this could be the same developer that is scouting land for a 13-story condo hotel, spa and restaurant or maybe its another one which could mean the possbility of three new downtown hotels. But Justin said with confidence there will be a new boutique hotel downtown within two years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that happens, I hope the facade of the Elm Street Center gets a makeover. Actually it could use one whether that happens or not.

you never know....im guessing if they build a hotel onto it, they would likely do something to the outside of the Elm Street Center.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

also if it had fizzled out the media would have found it since its such a big project. Back in May the developer did say it "could" take more than 6 months before a decision is made. That would put it around this time frame. Something this big will take alot of time. Its an EXTREMELY complex project. If you look at alot of big projects in Charlotte, after the initial announcement, it took som time before construction actually started and The Greensboro Triumph Center is bigger in scope than any single project in uptown Charlotte so it will take alot of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.