The Greensboro Triumph Center

[kmurphy19662003]

also if it had fizzled out the media would have found it since its such a big project. Back in May the developer did say it "could" take more than 6 months before a decision is made. That would put it around this time frame. Something this big will take alot of time. Its an EXTREMELY complex project. If you look at alot of big projects in Charlotte, after the initial announcement, it took som time before construction actually started and The Greensboro Triumph Center is bigger in scope than any single project in uptown Charlotte so it will take alot of time.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this project is D-E-A-D. It never was really alive, there is no final review going on. Time to move on. Citiboi, if you are telling me that this project was larger than the Wachovia project in Charlotte, then you have completly lost your mind.

This is from a certain member of the GSO city council who laughed out loud when I inquired to him about the mystery GSO Triumph Center

[cityboi]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this project is D-E-A-D. It never was really alive, there is no final review going on. Time to move on. Citiboi, if you are telling me that this project was larger than the Wachovia project in Charlotte, then you have completly lost your mind.

This is from a certain member of the GSO city council who laughed out loud when I inquired to him about the mystery GSO Triumph Center

well it appears that the city council has been in the dark about this the whole time. The city council member you are refering to is probabally either Mike Barber or Tom Phillips. No one but the mayor, city manager, DGI board members and a few other know the actual status of this project and if it were dead, they would be cleared to talk about it. It seems they are still not permitted to talk about it. I wouldnt be so quick to take the word from a city council member. I heard from another more reliable source that the project is not dead. Its really kinda like on hold.

Also I said the Triumph Center was bigger in scope, not size. The Wachovia project in Charlotte doesnt have all those elements in the Triumph Center.

[triadguy37]

After 32 pages of speculation now we can finally put the project to rest or do we still need to check with Ray Gibbs. Apparantely this project is DEAD.

[cityboi]

After 32 pages of speculation now we can finally put the project to rest or do we still need to check with Ray Gibbs. Apparantely this project is DEAD.

according to a RELIABLE source its not dead

The fact that city leaders STILL can not publically comment on it proves the project is still alive. City officials can certainly comment on a dead project but they are not talking. I'll bet if you email the mayor, city manager or DGI and ask them about it they'll say they cant discuss it. Im sure the News & Record continues to hound them on this and apparently city leaders arent saying anything to the media about it. Otherwise we would be reading in the News & Record that this project is dead.

[JerseyBoy]

You know, I'm really getting tired of this thread. Everytime someones asks a question, certain forumers always end up getting into arguments over the most minute things. The fact is nothing has been reported on this project in a few months. I have no clue as to whether it is dead or not, but given the current state of our economy I'd say it has either been shelved or cancelled. I'd love to see someone argue that...

Cityboi, why don't you just mention your sources (or at least what affiliation they have with this project) instead of talking in circles? Your lack of presenting your evidence makes me think you're making up false facts to support this development.

[cityboi]

You know, I'm really getting tired of this thread. Everytime someones asks a question, certain forumers always end up getting into arguments over the most minute things. The fact is nothing has been reported on this project in a few months. I have no clue as to whether it is dead or not, but given the current state of economy I'd say it has either been shelved or cancelled. I'd love to see someone argue that...

Cityboi, why don't you just mention your sources (or at least what affiliation they have with this project) instead of talking in circles? Your lack of presenting your evidence makes me think you're making up false facts to support this development.

I cant reveal who my source is because this person ask me not to reveal him. Just as others could not reveal their source. I know you can respect that. So far no one has gotten into an arguement and it doesnt appear to be headed that way. I also dont appreciate alligations that im making up false facts.

[JerseyBoy]

What do you expect your fellow forumers to believe if you just say "a certain source" or "an anonymous source" in order to back yourself up?

I am done arguing over this nonsense. Keep it civil and remain on topic please.

[twincity]

other forum members who got banned from UP shouldnt be seen as a reliable source.

[krazeeboi]

...The Greensboro Triumph Center is bigger in scope than any single project in uptown Charlotte...

That's a bit ambiguous. What does that actually mean?

And I can say that just because we haven't heard much about this project lately in no way means that it is dead. Given the state of the economy right now, it's probable that some elements had to be reworked, especially if residential is involved.

[cityboi]

other forum members who got banned from UP shouldnt be seen as a reliable source.

trust me....this person isnt a former UP member

[cityboi]

That's a bit ambiguous. What does that actually mean?

And I can say that just because we haven't heard much about this project lately in no way means that it is dead. Given the state of the economy right now, it's probable that some elements had to be reworked, especially if residential is involved.

I mean the number of elements that make up Triumph Center.

I agree...there are MANY projects in many cities that go quiet for a long time but it doesnt mean they're dead. Like I said based on my source, this project is sort of on hold. One example of a local project that has not been discussed about in the media for at least a year and half is Triad Tower yet its still planned. Triumph Center is no different. All we can do is wait. but yes the project could still go dead. No one is saying its a done deal here. But its not fair to assume a project is dead just because we havent heard anything publically about it or because some city council member, who is not privied to all the details btw, laughs and says its dead. Chances are he probabally never supported the project anyway.

[coastalmindset]

Whether it's dead or not who knows but I wouldn't expect to see this project get going anytime. Given the slow slide we are seeing in the economy and constuction/fuel costs this is probably not a good time to start this type of project. Add to that the over saturation of redisential structures in this market and as someone mentioned in another thread the retail vacancy rate in this area hovering around 40%. I can only imagine what the office vacancy rate is in Greensboro. I would say this project will at least be shelved for a year maybe two. I have no sources just my own thoughts on this one...

[twincity]

i think given the size, and this all-in-one package idea, made it a very risky proposal with a very slim chance of breaking ground. and like i stated from day 1, people were talking way too soon. Did we learn anything from W-S's Unity Place disaster? DGI and Keith Holiday should have waited until the proposal was more solid, and they had specific numbers, renderings, timeline etc. it may still be alive, but i wouldnt expect to see action for a few years.

[cityboi]

Whether it's dead or not who knows but I wouldn't expect to see this project get going anytime. Given the slow slide we are seeing in the economy and constuction/fuel costs this is probably not a good time to start this type of project. Add to that the over saturation of redisential structures in this market and as someone mentioned in another thread the retail vacancy rate in this area hovering around 40%. I can only imagine what the office vacancy rate is in Greensboro. I would say this project will at least be shelved for a year maybe two. I have no sources just my own thoughts on this one...

those are probabally the reason this project is kinda on hold.

[twincity]

trust me....this person isnt a former UP member

one of your sources is...i know that for a fact. lol

[JerseyBoy]

Not trying to be a hardass, but how is it "kind of on hold?" It either is or it isn't.

[suburban george3]

PLEASE, let's just all wait and see what comes out in the media. This thread has gotten ugly in the past, let's not let this thread slip into it's past quarrels again. If we don't have anything that we can report that CAN BE SUBSTANTIATED BY PRINT OR TV MEDIA, don't post it here. I agree, it is frustrating that everything seems like 'back-room whispers' or heard in the 'shadows', let' s just wait to post something we can actually verify.

[cityboi]

PLEASE, let's just all wait and see what comes out in the media. This thread has gotten ugly in the past, let's not let this thread slip into it's past quarrels again. If we don't have anything that we can report that CAN BE SUBSTANTIATED BY PRINT OR TV MEDIA, don't post it here. I agree, it is frustrating that everything seems like 'back-room whispers' or heard in the 'shadows', let' s just wait to post something we can actually verify.

I agree with some of what you said...this is getting rediculous. All someone did was ask what the progress is on this. Its beyond me why this thread gets heated when there is nothing to get heated about.

[coastalmindset]

I don't want to start any arguments here and while I agree that people shouldn't just speculate without a source or some facts, if we waited for and listened to everything the media reports we'd never get anywhere. This project is a topic on on UP because of the media and their need to unnecessarily hype development projects. If they wouldn't have hyped the project before it was actually a realistic possibility we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I know I'd like to hear from people who are not in the media, especially if they have sources (public or not), as long as they are giving us actual facts. Someone can say the project is on or off all they want and cite any sources they want but give us some actual facts as to why you are taking your position. "Someone told me it is still on" doesn't cut it. What we have gotten into is a discussion of "well I heard" without the facts to substantiate anyone's position.

As I had previously stated, while I have no inside knowledge, I think it's fairly safe to say this project is slowing down and possibly on hold due to the continued slow down in the economy (housing market, fuel cost, end of the year job layoffs).

[cityboi]

I think, whether someone says "a secret source told me" or not, there is no need for people to blow up over it. Take it with a grain of salt. If a person believes it fine. If a person dont believe it fine. However we shouldnt discount these "secret sources" because we found alot of stuff from them before the media found out. The media later confirmed things these secret sources said. But I agree we should wait. Someone asked a question of the status of this project. I responded to his question based on info I knew of and that should have been the end of that. Sarcastic remarks (which start all this) about a project being alledgedly dead was just not necessary. Bottom line lets wait to see the outcome.

[RALNATIVE]

Just my two cents worth here. I thought that the last article that came out in the N&R that revealed Cain as the developer was structured to say that this project was infeasible, if not a complete scam.

Wake up people. If GSO continues falling for shams like this, they city will NEVER acheive the reputation nor prosperity that it wants.

[cityboi]

Just my two cents worth here. I thought that the last article that came out in the N&R that revealed Cain as the developer was structured to say that this project was infeasible, if not a complete scam.

Wake up people. If GSO continues falling for shams like this, they city will NEVER acheive the reputation nor prosperity that it wants.

oh my god! the article never said the project was infeasible. If it were a scam, Im afraid our intelllegent mayor Keith Holiday and others are incompetent for not seeing it because all of them had knowledge of who the developer was before the media found out. At the same time of knowing who the developer was they were saying "there is a serious deal here". Lets face the facts. I think its suspect that some people stopped taking the project seriously when they found out it it was being spearhead by a small local minority developer. Some try to say well its because he doesnt have a track record of doing anything that big. But there are other examples in Greensboro where developers built large developements even though they didnt have a track record to do so. Roy Carroll had never done ay large luxury highrise condo building before, yet people didnt doubt his capabilty of doing it. Even still Issac Cain is just the one spearheading a project which involves other big time developers.

[RALNATIVE]

oh my god! the article never said the project was infeasible. If it were a scam, Im afraid our intelllegent mayor Keith Holiday and others are incompetent for not seeing it because all of them had knowledge of who the developer was before the media found out. At the same time they were saying "there is a serious deal here".

Again...WAKE UP. They are not going to come right out and say that it was a scam...why??? Because they (i.e. N&R, the mayor, etc.) were the ones reporting on it and may/or may not have at some point in time thought that it was credible. Instead of blatantly saying that it was a scam, they are going to put the revealed facts out there, and let people draw their own conclusions. There have been more inconsistencies with this effort than I have EVER seen with any city project. This whole affair has reached the highest levels of being absurd, and most rational people eventually realize when they have been taken for a fool.

[cityboi]

"I thought that the last article that came out in the N&R that revealed Cain as the developer was structured to say that this project was infeasible, if not a complete scam"

BTW here is that article you claimed the News & Record insisted it was infeasible

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...RSTAFF/70824025

[RALNATIVE]

"I thought that the last article that came out in the N&R that revealed Cain as the developer was structured to say that this project was infeasible, if not a complete scam"

BTW here is that article you claimed the News & Record insisted it was infeasible

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...RSTAFF/70824025

Actually, that is not the article that I was refering to. It wasn't published in the N&R (my mistake). The correct article was posted on digtriad:

http://www.digtriad.com/news/local_state/a...11&catid=57

No one in their right mind would read that article and come away thinking that this project has a chance of happening as stated. I'm not even going to bother listing all of the inconsistencies and concerns that cause me to see things this way, because it will only give me another migraine. I will mention though that it is time for GSO and its leadership to stop being so naive if the city ever expects to progress beyond where it currently is.