cityboi

The Greensboro Triumph Center

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Folks...what we thought was dead may still be alive..... Its back!

I came across the developers website and it shows preliminary plans for his Greensboro Triumph Center which had been shelved. The plan actually includes a performing arts center called "Ardent Square" and it appears to be the anchor of the project. Coincidentally the talk of the town now is a new downtown performance arts center so something is going on behind the scenes ;) I had no idea he had this website showing plans. He gives a lot more detail about the project then what was revealed in the media. It looks like he is trying to bring this project back on the table. One thing I did notice is that on the website it mentions that the hotel rooms has changed from 500 to 300 due to market conditions and that fact that "another downtown hotel" is being proposed. The Wyndham is the only downtown hotel being proposed and he has a 2010 date at the bottom of the website. The developer also mentions the recent opening of the Civil Rights Museum which opened earlier this year...interesting ;) Since everyone one wants a downtown performance arts center now and no one knows whos going to pay for it, Issac Cain could use that as leverage to get his project off the ground again because before the focus wasn't a performing arts center. He states he is raising private capital to build the performing arts concert hall. The entertainment and convention component would make the 300-hotel feasible and would help bring even more business to the planned downtown 10-story Wyndham hotel. The Koury Convention Center may see a little competition if the convention part of it gets built. He may have to scale back the number of condo units since the housing and banking crisis has led to slow condo sales in the central business district, but there is a great demand for downtown apartments. However it would likely take a number of years before the this project gets off the ground and by that time there may be an increased demand for downtown condos as the economy improves. This project would also be built in phases. Obviously the local media hasn't picked up on his plans to resurrect the Greensboro Triumph Center...stay tuned folks!

The performing arts center/concert hall portion will be supported by "entertainers such as ,James Taylor, Sting, Bon Jovi, Vanessa Williams, and Natalie Cole to name a few" Other amenities of the Greensboro Triumph Center include NASCAR simulators, fighter jet simulators, children's rides and a double decker carousel. All he needs is a roller coaster LOL

http://www.greensbor...mphcenter.info/

http://exemptinc.com...ifications.html

preliminary renderings and site plans of the Greensboro Triumph Center (these renderings and plans represent the "smallest version" of what he had originally proposed. The larger version would have taken up more than two city blocks and because of the economy the larger version seems to be off the table. But this project would be in a great location because it would create energy along Church Street and it would be adjacent to the rail road tracks. A commuter or light rail stop could easily be put here in the future. The site is also about a block a way from the planned 10-story downtown Wyndham hotel. If this project really does take off, we could see a dramatic change in Greensboro's skyline. No longer would all the tall buildings be located around Elm Street.

The Entertainment Destination Project Specifications:

Mixed Use Project:

PERFORMING ARTS CONCERT HALL:

4000 Seats

10,000 square feet Restaurant

10,000 square feet Retail

HOTEL TOWER : (Franchise to be determined)

300 Rooms

10,000 square feet Retail Shops

ENTERTAINMENT PAVILION:

200,000 square feet total

Bowling Lanes

Roller Skating Rink

8 Screens (IMAX) 3D Theaters

Video Arcades

Shops and Food court

RESIDENTIAL MIXED USE TOWER

251 units

50,000 square feet Commercial space

50,000 square feet Retail space

CONVENTION CENTER:

100,000 square feet

These are not final renderings but it looks like the tall building is suppose to be the hotel. Originally the hotel was suppose to be 20-stories but since the rooms have been reduced to 300, this hotel should be around 15-stories.

triumph_center_-performing_arts_hotel_.jpg

This portion is located on three different properties. The city owns the land where the convention center is, Lincoln Financial owns the land where the hotel sit and the Weaver Foundation owns the land where the entertainment complex is located. I do know the city wants to sell this piece of property to a developer. The Greensboro Children's Museum is located on property next to the entertainment complex portion. Obviously DGI is still working with this guy because Downtown Greensboro, Inc even outlines this property for a potential performing arts center in the report they released a few weeks ago.

development_drawings_002_fovx_r4lz.png

This portion which would be part of the last phases of the project shows 3 towers.

development_drawings_003_xrx6.jpg

Wow. I had a feeling this project wasn't dead. The renderings and website look amazing, too! The website looks like its brand new and well updated. I really wanna hear the medias take on this project, too. Maybe they'll reveal even more because I didn't see a start or completion date. Hopefully its soon. BTW I thought a ESPN Zone was to be included with the project? Maybe thats another project I'm thinking about...

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Wow. I had a feeling this project wasn't dead. The renderings and website look amazing, too! The website looks like its brand new and well updated. I really wanna hear the medias take on this project, too. Maybe they'll reveal even more because I didn't see a start or completion date. Hopefully its soon. BTW I thought a ESPN Zone was to be included with the project? Maybe thats another project I'm thinking about...

It looks as though everything is still preliminary so as of this point there are no signed on tenants such as ESPN Zone. Once investors climb on board again we should see things begin to unfold quickly. The performance arts center will really help get his project of the ground because there is such broad support for it. Its great to see that he didn't give in to naysayers who didnt take his project seriously. People didnt take the planned downtown Wyndham seriously and now it looks like construction on it will begin at the end of the year. The Greensboro Triumph Center would be the biggest development downtown has ever seen and if built as planned, we will see some big changes in Greensboro's skyline.

Edited by cityboi

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Cityboi, I hate to always be the negative one, but I wouldn't put much stock into this website as it is very amateur looking. The renderings are also NOT of the Triumph Center. The developer is using renderings of the completed 1010 Peachtree condo tower in Atlanta and passing them off as the Triumph Center. See for yourself:

http://www.liverealtygroup.com/1010_Midtown_Atlanta_Condos/page_2087527.html

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Since that page was mentioned I though I should add that the top picture isn't even of a performing arts center but rather the Main Branch library of Vancouver!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Public_Library

Putting that into consideration with what JerseyBoy previously posted along with the website's poor design it's very difficult to put much stock into it.

Edited by basket1058

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Cityboi, I hate to always be the negative one, but I wouldn't put much stock into this website as it is very amateur looking. The renderings are also NOT of the Triumph Center. The developer is using renderings of the completed 1010 Peachtree condo tower in Atlanta and passing them off as the Triumph Center. See for yourself:

http://www.liverealtygroup.com/1010_Midtown_Atlanta_Condos/page_2087527.html

Thats not uncommon. The first rendering for the planned downtown hotel was the design of another hotel. Sometimes developers do this when they don't have architectural drawings yet. They are trying to present a "concept" to investors. As for the website looking amateur, Im sure if this project moves along It will look more professional. I remember when CityView Apartments first launched their website, it looked very amateurish. Because of the poor website design, it seemed as though that project could have been a joke. As the project moved forward the website looked more professional. I wouldn't base the way a website looks on whether or not this project has a real chance. But perception wise I see what you mean. A performance arts center really is key because it has broad support in the community and is on the front burner as far as downtown projects go. The timing of DGI's announcement for a downtown performing arts center and the launch of Mr Cain's website happened around the same time. On top of that DGI pointed out the building site for Mr Cain's proposed project as a site for a performing arts center. So far Mr Issac Cain is the only one to step forward with some kind of plan for a performing arts center and is currently raising private capital for it. If he can get the support he needs for the performing arts center, he'll get support for the rest of the Greensboro Triumph Center. When you look at the individual amenities in the Greensboro Triumph Center, there is nothing unrealistic about it so i'm not sure why some have their doubts. Now some parts of it may have to be scaled back like the number of condo units. Maybe the proposed condos will have to be changed to apartments. But that all depends on the economy and the housing market over the next several years. Adjustments can be made to get this project off the ground based on market demand as we've seen with the planned downtown hotel. It seems as though Downtown Greensboro, Inc. is still working with this guy but don't underestimate Mr Cain. People underestimated Ms Bridget Chisholm with her proposed downtown luxury hotel. It was a "ludicrous" idea. People thought the project would never get off the ground. Some argued that maybe this hotel will get built but it would never be a luxury brand like Wyndham or Westin. The "ludicrous" idea is becoming reality and it looks like construction on the hotel will begin at the end of the year. But like Ms Chisholm hotel project, the Greensboro Triumph Center would likely go through a number of changes before it becomes reality. As I said before, I talked with a DGI board member and this person told me, this project was extremely close to happening back in 2007 and that the bonds (funding) where ready to be placed. Mr Issac Cain had a letter of credit for his project and serious reputable investors were ready to move forward. But the economy started slowing down and his project got too much press coverage before it could get off the ground good enough. He is making a second attempt and I have no doubt this project will be built (eventually) in some form or fashion. But I have noticed that SOME in the community seem to be judging a project based on the way the developer looks and their gender if you get my drift. While Bridget Chisholm is spearheading the downtown Wyndham project I find it interesting that she stepped out of the spotlight and let Mr Randall Kaplan become the spokes person for it towards the end and thats when people started looking at the project more seriously. The person thats spearheading the project has taken a background role and thats very unusual. The reality is that an African-American female developer is bringing a 10-story luxury Wyndham Hotel to downtown Greensboro. Some have even said the hotel will fail just because of Skip Alston's (who is African-American) MINOR role in the hotel project. He was just the broker.

Edited by cityboi

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IF built as planned, I could see something LIKE an ESPN Zone here. But dont look for an actual ESPN Zone...theyre all shutting down except for the ones on Disney properties.

Glad to finally see an envisioned site plan to go with all the rumors, though.

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this is pure gold! 36 pages and counting.... can we hit 70?! this thread needs some renderings of downtown log flume.

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It looks as though everything is still preliminary so as of this point there are no signed on tenants such as ESPN Zone. Once investors climb on board again we should see things begin to unfold quickly. The performance arts center will really help get his project of the ground because there is such broad support for it. Its great to see that he didn't give in to naysayers who didnt take his project seriously. People didnt take the planned downtown Wyndham seriously and now it looks like construction on it will begin at the end of the year. The Greensboro Triumph Center would be the biggest development downtown has ever seen and if built as planned, we will see some big changes in Greensboro's skyline.

And what investor or bank is going to climb on board and fund this project with no guarantees that it will be succesful in this recession? Yeah...nobody is going to. This project is nothing more than proposal by a no-name developer with no money blowing smoke out of his rear end who thinks he's going to build the latest, biggest thing. I've seen it time and time again throughout other cities in this country over the last few years. Not gonna happen.

Edited by citylife

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And what investor or bank is going to climb on board and fund this project with no guarantees that it will be succesful in this recession? Yeah...nobody is going to. This project is nothing more than proposal by a no-name developer with no money blowing smoke out of his rear end who thinks he's going to build the latest, biggest thing. I've seen it time and time again throughout other cities in this country over the last few years. Not gonna happen.

People were saying the same exact thing about the "proposed downtown luxury hotel" and its developer. There are a lot of parallels here. Bridget Chisholm is a "no name developer" with little experience. Like Issac Cain, Bridget Chisholm is a minority developer with a vision that people in the community laughed at. They didn't believe this hotel was going to get past the preliminary phase.

In fact I think you said the downtown luxury hotel wasn't going to happen. Despite the fact that Ms Chisholm is a "no name developer" with little experience, she managed to accomplish something that the local and more experienced big boys in Greensboro thought was not possible. If you have a negative, can't happen attitude, nothing will ever get done which is what Bridget Chisholm has proven. The well known local hoteliers sat on their hands because they thought they knew what was best for Greensboro and lost out on an opportunity.

Investors seem to be climbing on board for the downtown Wyndham and there are no guarantees there. These certainly aren't the best times yet banks are backing this hotel.

Keep in mind construction on the Triumph Center would likely be a number of years away. Not something thats going to happen in the next few years and the economy will eventually rebound unless you believe we will be in a permanent recession......(btw the recession is technically over according to economists) This is something that is likely 5 or more years down the road and there is nothing in this project that in unrealistic for downtown Greensboro. So there should be no reason as to why one would believe this project can't happen. When it comes to downtown Greensboro, you can't go wrong with entertainment venues even in today's economic climate. We can argue about the size of it which can be adjusted based on what the market will allow, but this project is certainly doable in Greensboro and would certainly help other downtown investments such as the future Wyndham hotel and all the other downtown establishments. Downtown Greensboro has defied the odds on a number of levels and that tract record proves that people with a vision can make things happen for our downtown. Hopefully people in this community will start being positive about this project and hope that it happens instead of being negative about it as if they don't want it to happen. This can only help downtown, not hurt it. There were many people on the blogs who did not want to see the downtown Wyndham happen for what ever reason. There will always be C.A.V.E.s in this city. I think we may see a similar situation with the Greensboro Triumph Center where Mr Cain may partner with other local developers and get access to more resources.

Edited by cityboi

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thanks all, this is wonderful entertainment!

gotta think big, gotta think fantastic! we're hitting the speculative 'big time', we can now rub elbows with the promoters of meadowlands xanadu!

i haven't seen this kind of unrestrained optimism and capricious imagination since elkington's 'planned' redevelopment of downtown winston-salem.

we need to get our local media outlets talking about this!

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thanks all, this is wonderful entertainment!

gotta think big, gotta think fantastic! we're hitting the speculative 'big time', we can now rub elbows with the promoters of meadowlands xanadu!

i haven't seen this kind of unrestrained optimism and capricious imagination since elkington's 'planned' redevelopment of downtown winston-salem.

we need to get our local media outlets talking about this!

If you want great things to happen, you have to have a vision and you have to be optimistic. Some bold projects happen, some don't. Some get put on hold. Some die and come back in the future. Maybe Elkington's planned development in Winston never made it past planning stages but whos to say the plan won't be revived in the future. Even if its not by Elkington, Another developer will likely propose something similar. Its only a matter of time. There is a reason Charlotte is the city that it is today. People there supported bold visions even when people thought Charlotte was too small for some of those ideas. The mindset there has always been a glass half full instead of a glass half empty. In the case of the Greensboro Triumph Center, this is not too bold for Greensboro. Its the right size project for this market. If Greensboro can support an IMAX theater, bowling alley, skating rink, performance arts theater, hotel, ect, then the city can support this project. I think we all know in these economic times, nothing like this is getting built today. The economic meltdown put downtown development to a crashing halt in cities nationwide. But I seriously doubt our economy is going to bad forever. The economy will rebound at some point in the future. This country has seen worse economic times than this and we rebounded.

Edited by cityboi

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we can get to page 37! remember when disney was secretly exploring the triumph project? come on, let's do this!

in total, the skepticism and pragmatic reservation voiced in this thread is in rough proportionality and scale with the speculation and optimistic conjecture.

for selfish reasons, i really want to see our local media outlets chase this story.... its just good, cheap entertainment!

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we can get to page 37! remember when disney was secretly exploring the triumph project? come on, let's do this!

in total, the skepticism and pragmatic reservation voiced in this thread is in rough proportionality and scale with the speculation and optimistic conjecture.

for selfish reasons, i really want to see our local media outlets chase this story.... its just good, cheap entertainment!

You're wrong. Disney is not going to build there. Instead, Cedar Fair is going to pack up Carowinds and move it to downtown Greensboro. They're going to have a brand new rollercoaster that goes across the top of all the highrises. It's going to be 500 feet tall, go 200 mph, and do 25 different inversions. I can't wait. Are you as excited as I am? :D:silly:

Edited by citylife

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You're wrong. Disney is not going to build there. Instead, Cedar Fair is going to pack up Carowinds and move it to downtown Greensboro. They're going to have a brand new rollercoaster that goes across the top of all the highrises. It's going to be 500 feet tall, go 200 mph, and do 25 different inversions. I can't wait. Are you as excited as I am? :D:silly:

does the business journal know about this latest development? justin catanoso where are you?

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And what investor or bank is going to climb on board and fund this project with no guarantees that it will be succesful in this recession? Yeah...nobody is going to. This project is nothing more than proposal by a no-name developer with no money blowing smoke out of his rear end who thinks he's going to build the latest, biggest thing. I've seen it time and time again throughout other cities in this country over the last few years. Not gonna happen.

It's obvious that you mean you've seen it in Greenville a few times over the last few years. Well, Greensboro is not Greenville. And certain projects do get scrapped, and certain projects do come to fruition, like they have in Greenville and several other cities. Eventually time will tell, but no one should be holding their breath in this current economic climate.

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It's obvious that you mean you've seen it in Greenville a few times over the last few years. Well, Greensboro is not Greenville. And certain projects do get scrapped, and certain projects do come to fruition, like they have in Greenville and several other cities. Eventually time will tell, but no one should be holding their breath in this current economic climate.

Agreed. I dont think anyone has any illusions that this project is getting built anytime soon because of the scope of it combined with the economic climate. Eventually I believe it will in better economic times and the developer is continuing to push this. People thought the hotel project was dead when it didnt get the first round of bonds. Center-City park was dead for several years before it was brought back up again and finally built. Despite the economic climate and the size of this project, as a community I think we should all at least hope that it happens and not ridicule this concept. We should be supporting anything postive for our center-city. People wonder why we can't compete on the same level as Charlotte and Raleigh and thats because of our mindset. We still have a small town mindset and we believe Greensboro can't be more than what it is. So when some one proposes something grand, we laugh at it. If you want to play with the big boys, you have to act like the big boys.

Edited by cityboi

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Now let's be honest: Charlotte and Raleigh didn't get to where they are now just due to positive self-imaging. There were actually political, civic, and business leaders who built the foundations for future growth in those cities and that created a demand for the large projects they've gotten off the ground. I don't know what the future holds for Greensboro, but as of right now, I think the city just needs to naturally flesh out from an urban development standpoint since that is in direct correlation to the city's economic development presently. If the city hits an economic growth spurt, you'll see that mirrored in urban development. If not, then you won't; it's that simple. But I do think that Greensboro has some untapped potential in its downtown that can be exploited even under present circumstances.

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Now let's be honest: Charlotte and Raleigh didn't get to where they are now just due to positive self-imaging. There were actually political, civic, and business leaders who built the foundations for future growth in those cities and that created a demand for the large projects they've gotten off the ground. I don't know what the future holds for Greensboro, but as of right now, I think the city just needs to naturally flesh out from an urban development standpoint since that is in direct correlation to the city's economic development presently. If the city hits an economic growth spurt, you'll see that mirrored in urban development. If not, then you won't; it's that simple. But I do think that Greensboro has some untapped potential in its downtown that can be exploited even under present circumstances.

Exactly! Greensboro has also laid foundations as well which is why we've seen the success that has unfolded downtown in recent years. But before cities can lay foundations for future economic development opportunities, cities have to have a positive forward thinking mindset or cities will never get to that point. Charlotte and Raleigh have had that forward thinking mindset for a long time now and Greensboro is just now starting to have that forward thinking mindset. 20 years ago city council members would have turn down a new swim center at the coliseum and now our leaders are taking bolder steps and are supporting these kind of large economic projects. But The Greensboro Triumph Center concept is not out of reach for Greensboro. I think downtown has proven itself to be ready for a project like this. The others who have invested in downtown have paved the way for it. The more projects that are built downtown, the larger in scope they become. We have to walk before we can run. Momentum is still growing in downtown Greensboro despite the economic slump. Downtown Greensboro, Inc says on their website that five "conceptual development projects" are underway (not yet publicly announced). I'm sure the Triumph Center is one of those projects. When the economy improves I look forward to seeing what the rest of those projects are.

Many developers scrap projects all together when they can't immediately get their projects off the ground. But the difference with Mr Cain is that he is persistent in making this happen. Thats why I think it eventually it will happen in some form. We're gonna eventually get an entertainment complex. Downtown Greensboro has a reputation for being an entertainment hot spot. The Triumph Center may not happen exactly as planned and it could be 5 to 8 years before we will ever see a shovel turn dirt over for this project, but I think it will happen. Its like the downtown hotel project. That project changed two or three time from location to size. Its also possible that Mr Cain may abandon the idea of this being a major regional destination and focus more on this as a local downtown attraction. Only time will tell. Whether it has a local or regional draw, this will be great for downtown. In the past there has been a lot of speculation on this topic and now we know exactly what Mr Cain has planned, at least for now.

I think the performing arts center gives Mr Cain the perfect opportunity and political support for his entire project. I would like to see Mr Cain join forces with other developers for this though. That way the community feels more comfortable about the project in general and he'll gain access to more resources and others can share the risk. Also I understand the reasoning for naming it the "Greensboro Triumph Center" but I would like to see a better name for it. I hate to say this but if this is to be a regional attraction, especially if the project is meant to attract people from beyond the Triad, "Greensboro" should not be in the name of it. I don't care for the word "center" in the name as well. I like "Triumph Square" better. Mr Cain has named the performing arts center in his project "Ardent Square". That name would work for the entire project.

Edited by cityboi

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Both krazeeboi and cityboi hit the nail right on the head. The only way we're gonna progress as a city is to BELIEVE that we can do it. That "We can't" mentality we have needs to GO. There is no other way around it. Its about time this city stops sitting down, acting like its a small town. The fact of the matter is, Greensboro is a city, not some rural-hick village! We have been making some great strides in the past and present. So that alone should tell people what this place can truly become. I see alot of that pessimistic mentality on this board and sometimes it makes me shakes my head. Sometimes its almost as if the people here don't want Greensboro to grow. We have to start having a little more faith and respect for our city. Despite a small handful opportunities it has missed in the past, Greensboro is STILL managing to grow day by day. Not every city can say the same (I can list many examples). We already have the tools for major growth in our universities, companies, geographic space, cheap land(outside of downtown anyway...), proximity to other major cities, etc. I believe that this project will take off in the future. As far as our economy goes, I think we do need to diversify it more. American Express has already agreed to build a $400 million data center here in Guilford County ( See here ) and that could possibly create momentum to land more centers HERE. We can use those opportunities as stepping stones.

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You are absolutly right Lee Street Bully. Greensboro has a perception and identity issue that has plagued the city for over 30 years. I don't think people can call Greensboro "Greensboring" anymore but the perception still lingers among many people. Charlotte has its own perception issue as it tries to stand toe to toe with the other big metropolitan cities across the country. Charlotte has over 600,000 people, a large corporate portfolio, thousands of high paying jobs, an impressive skyline, major league proffesional sports, mass transit (light rail), is a culturally diverse urban center and yet some people still refuse to call Charlotte a major U.S. city. When people refer to Charlotte they still say Charlotte, NC instead of just Charlotte. Like Charlotte, some people are ignoring all of the growth and development that has happened in the Gate City. We do need to diversify our economy and we are making the steps to do that. But it will take time for the perception to catch up with all the growth and changes. Greensboro has come a long way but we still have a long way to go. I think our leaders need to try much harder in attracting companies downtown. That will lead to urban office development. But to attract these white collar jobs in the first place we need to focus on our stregnths in education as a college community. We have so much talent here and Greensboro is in a great location. But having a great quality of life is also a factor in attracting these high paying white collar jobs and the Greensboro Triumph Center is a quality of life development. I think our greatest downtown success over the past 10 years is the ballpark simply because its no easy task to build a multi-million dollar sports venue without taxpayer dollars and there are cities larger than Greensboro that have not been able to pull that off. Its a great example how Greensboro can muster up the support it needs to make things happen. Southside is the other great success which beat the odds. Its a pretty big feat for any city to turn a crime driven area into a unique upscale urban neighborhood and this happened over night. The Wyndham hotel is another example. To have a 10-story luxury hotel (with a national luxury name brand) built in downtown Greensboro and in poor economic times is a pretty big feat. Greensboro is finally attracting upscale retailers such as Brooks Brothers. Considering all this, I have no doubt the Greensboro Triumph Center can be built and become another great downtown success story.

Edited by cityboi

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Thats exactly how I feel, too. But sometimes I wonder how long will it be until those negative perceptions are almost non-existent. I still hear them from time to time. Its not very often, tho. Not too long ago I was on Facebook and one of my friends was talking about how he met this guy who didn't know where Charlotte was. And the man was from D.C.<_<...I believe that alot of the times those perceptions are spawned from snobbishness and ignorance.

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looks like Mr Issac Cain isn't giving up on his Greensboro Triumph Center project. He says he will have actual renderings around May and has identified a hotel chain and hotel development company. The interesting thing is that his project calls for a performing arts center and for some reason or another the community is ignoring him despite the fact the downtown is being considered for a performing arts center. To be blunt it seemed like the community was excited about this project until they found out the developer was a black man. All of a sudden people stopped taking it seriously. We saw this with the Wyndham Hotel project which originally was being planned by Urban Hotel Group (run by two African-Americans) The Wyndham hotel project is still on hold but is no longer associated with Urban Hotel Group.

http://www.greensbor...ifications.html

http://charlotteraleighrealestate.citybizlist.com/14/2011/1/13/Will-Exempt-Triumph-in-Greensboro.aspx

Edited by cityboi

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Anything more current? That article is over a year old.

Well it appears Mr Cain updated the website this year and he makes references to renderings being available after May 2012. There is certainly nothing unrealistic about this project as long as its done in phases. He has a performing arts center in his plan for phase one which would be privately funded yet city leaders are ignoring him and trying to build a tax payer funded facility. It makes no sense to me. You would think the community would get behind his effort. But it was so blatantly obvious. As soon as Mr Cain was revealed as the developer, the News & Record stopped reporting on it, the community at large lost interest and the excitement evaporated. I believe the project would get a different reception if someone like Roy Carroll were planning this. I think it is unrealistic to expect his plan to be built all at once but it certainly can happen in phases over a period of time even if it were scaled back in size a little bit. Today's economic climate does make it difficult but some portions of the project could be built today such as the performing arts center and high-rise apartments. Because of the high demand for downtown apartments, developers would not have a difficult time getting these type of residential projects financed. By generating some income from high end apartments, that can provide a source of funding for future phases. The office and entertainment complex could be built in phase 2 and I would probably build the hotel and conference center in the 3rd phase. In terms of the hotel size, I would adjust it based on the size of the convention space. If a 300 room hotel is going to built, its going to need larger convention space to help support it. Of course the entertainment complex is a selling point to help attract conventions and that helps fill up hotel rooms. Cain has condos in his plan but I would just make them all apartments. Downtown condo sales have been slow over the last 3 or 4 years. Besides apartments attract a younger crowd which would help support his entertainment complex. Typically the 40 year old crowd and empty nesters are buying the downtown condos. One key feature that would set his apartment complex aside from the other downtown apartments is that it would be a high-rise. His plan calls for more than 250 residential units in a few high-rise buildings and in a few mid-rise buildings combined with office, retail and restaurants. There are a total of about three high-rises in the whole project (11 stories, 15 stories and the 20-story hotel) In the residential/office/retail portion of the project, a parking deck would be hidden in the center of the block based on early conceptual plans. This part of the project would be built on the block surrounded by Davie St, Friendly Ave, E Market St and Church Street. (Governor's Court is in that block as well) The entertainment complex portion would be built on Duke Power site (northeast corner of Friendly Ave and Church St). The performing arts center/hotel/conference center would be built in the block surrounded by Friendly Ave, Church St, and E Market St (across the street from the residential portion). Realistically the project could take as long as ten years to be built in its entirety. It really depends on the economy. This is certainly not something that would happen over night. But the first hurdle is just getting any part of the project off the ground.

Edited by cityboi

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Honestly, I think it has little to do with race, but the fact that this guy is not a reputable developer who has a track record of large scale mixed use projects. No one comes out the blue and reports their plans for not 1, but 3 highrises plus more on expensive downtown land. The website isnt professional. The links in that Jan. '11 article do not work. I really think we should let this one go. It has never really had any signs of being a genuine proposal...only one man's dream for Greensboro.

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