The Greensboro Triumph Center

[cityboi]

I will say that I would be quite surprised if Disney chose to do this first-of-a-kind development in Greensboro. That's not to say that Greensboro would be "unworthy," but from a development and revenue-generating point of view, I could think of other locations that would make a bit more business sense to me (i.e., along the coast). But since we're still in the dark as far as details are concerned, it's theoretically possible.

one logic could be that there is nothing here to compete with it. Its a crowed market in big cities with all kinds of development and entertainment options. I think its the same reason the ACC tournament is more successfull in Greensboro than any other of the larger tournament cities. In places like Washington and Atlanta, its just another event but in Greensboro it the most important event on the calender.

Also alot of big cities already have entertainment complexes in or near downtown.

Disney could be seeking smaller niche destinations for medium-sized markets. they are always trying something new

[krazeeboi]

^That's another way to look at it.

[cityboi]

But im jumping the gun LOL like I said it may have nothing to do with Disney but it seems like it

[cityboi]

name things youd like to see in this development.

- I would like a concert hall to be included in this development. Since Greensboro city tax payers voted down upgrading War Memorial Auditorium at the coliseum.

- definately a mutliplex theater

- bowling alley

- at least two towers, one exceeding 30-stories

[roningreensboro]

I would like to see

- Concert Hall and School of the Arts High School

- 2 High rise mix condo office towers

- Hotel tower

- Midrise apartment tower with lower retail space

- House of Jazz Club

[krazeeboi]

A grocery store.

[jervais]

I would like to see...

a nice aquarium

IMAX

2-3 towers All mixed used with shops/restuarants, residential, office

Another park

[cityboi]

A grocery store.

lol...you want very little. Believe it or not a grocery store is very important. When you have these kind of services downtown, more people will want to live downtown. Another thing Id like to add is Id like a large school for elementary children, middle school and high school students. Imagining living downtown, working downtown and having your children go to school a few blocks away from home and then be able to walk to the super market, to the theater and to restaurants. Thats a rue urban lifestlye, and healthy because you would drive less and walk more

[krazeeboi]

I only mentioned a grocery store because just about everything else was mentioned.

[blburton]

Grocery store

Pedestrian friendly urban village with a residential component consisting of 3-6 story apartments and condominiums, an office/residential tower of at least 20 stories with a unique design, "retail row" with 10-15 mid-upscale mall retailers like Banana Republic, COACH, ALDO, Guess, etc or a mini-Target or Best Buy (Maybe a 2 story urban prototype?) and restaurants ranging from 'mom and pops' type places to upscale chains, and street improvements that make all gateways to downtown mesh well and look aesthetically pleasing. Somewhere in this village would be the entertainment nucleus which would be as close to an existing portion of downtown Greensboro as possible. This may include nightlife (clubs/bars), a bookstore, IMAX theatre, and a possibly incorporation of the Greensboro Historic or Children's Museum. Many walkways both ground level and suspended and/or a small monorail/underground rail system should be a part of this plan.

[cityboi]

Grocery store

Pedestrian friendly urban village with a residential component consisting of 3-6 story apartments and condominiums, an office/residential tower of at least 20 stories with a unique design, "retail row" with 10-15 mid-upscale mall retailers like Banana Republic, COACH, ALDO, Guess, etc or a mini-Target or Best Buy (Maybe a 2 story urban prototype?) and restaurants ranging from 'mom and pops' type places to upscale chains, and street improvements that make all gateways to downtown mesh well and look aesthetically pleasing. Somewhere in this village would be the entertainment nucleus which would be as close to an existing portion of downtown Greensboro as possible. This may include nightlife (clubs/bars), a bookstore, IMAX theatre, and a possibly incorporation of the Greensboro Historic or Children's Museum. Many walkways both ground level and suspended and/or a small monorail/underground rail system should be a part of this plan.

my bet is there would be at least a couple retails among the likes of the Gap. I also would like to see a downtown mini Target and a Barnes & Noble. Add a few big retail chains in that spurs more downtown residential. Certianly this helps the need for a streetcar system downtown. You have some good ideas.

[NCN8ive]

Yes, the State of Charlotte is great!

I realize you probably meant this in a positive way, but I for one am really proud to not only live in Charlotte but to also live in North Carolina. I want Charlotte to benefit from it's NC connection and vice versa. I don't know anyone here in Charlotte who wants to disgard Charlotte's NC connection (not to be confused with the idea that the "NC" shouldn't be necessary). I don't see that as wanting to distance ourselves from NC, but rather wanting to be well enough known, that everyone AUTOMATICALLY knows were are in NC.

Anyway, I know this is a digression.

I hope Greensboro gets this new development and I hope it's all it can be for the city and region.

[cityboi]

I realize you probably meant this in a positive way, but I for one am really proud to not only live in Charlotte but to also live in North Carolina. I want Charlotte to benefit from it's NC connection and vice versa. I don't know anyone here in Charlotte who wants to disgard Charlotte's NC connection (not to be confused with the idea that the "NC" shouldn't be necessary). I don't see that as wanting to distance ourselves from NC, but rather wanting to be well enough known, that everyone AUTOMATICALLY knows were are in NC.

Anyway, I know this is a digression.

I hope Greensboro gets this new development and I hope it's all it can be for the city and region.

What makes NC so great are the difference in the cities. Greensboro will never be like Charlotte and vice-versa. I think if you visit Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Durham and Fayetteville, you will immediately discover the differences in each city and thats a good thing. My god it would be so boring if all the cities were alike. In my opinion one is not better than the other but everyone has thier preference in terms of where they want to live. Its different strokes for different folks.

[KayR]

It was mentioned on the wish lists up there ^^^ that someone wanted a high school for the arts. We already have one, it's already downtown, and it's fantastic with 100% graduation and something like 98% of the graduates get scholarships to colleges. In case you haven't heard of it- it's called Weaver and it's the odd looking cement building on Spring St. where Washington St. dead ends across from the Y.

Additionally, it was "wished for" that there be a K-12 school built downtown. I suppose technically there would be space for a school (Imani was there until they were shut down) but it couldn't be a public school. They are required by various laws to have so much square footage and there's a required amount of land that has to be around the building- there isn't enough open acreage downtown to meet the requirements of the laws. This is why GCS is having so much trouble finding locations to build new schools.

[cityboi]

It was mentioned on the wish lists up there ^^^ that someone wanted a high school for the arts. We already have one, it's already downtown, and it's fantastic with 100% graduation and something like 98% of the graduates get scholarships to colleges. In case you haven't heard of it- it's called Weaver and it's the odd looking cement building on Spring St. where Washington St. dead ends across from the Y.

Additionally, it was "wished for" that there be a K-12 school built downtown. I suppose technically there would be space for a school (Imani was there until they were shut down) but it couldn't be a public school. They are required by various laws to have so much square footage and there's a required amount of land that has to be around the building- there isn't enough open acreage downtown to meet the requirements of the laws. This is why GCS is having so much trouble finding locations to build new schools.

I personally think the laws have to be changed for urban schools

[roningreensboro]

I personally think the laws have to be changed for urban schools

Urban schools should go upward just like buisnesses in downtowns. Square footage is not just horizontal. It's vertical too.

[cityboi]

Urban schools should go upward just like buisnesses in downtowns. Square footage is not just horizontal. It's vertical too.

true schools in urban cities such as New York have vertical schools

btw one of the sites being considered for the secret massive downtown project is the former Chevrolet property which is the large vacant lot in the foreground of this photo. That also includes the land where the tan building is sitting on which is next to the ballpark. Lots of potential for a few highrises (hotel & condos) and a number of midrise buildings. a school nearby would be nice

[cityboi]

More details mentioned about this mystery project...apparently several out of town developers are considering projects downtown including the one thats considered MASSIVE. The projects not only includes one hotel but two hotels and both would be luxury hotels which means they wont be your typical Marriott or Hilton. One would be a 50-room boutique establishment and the other luxury hotel would be a high-rise with rooms ranging from 250 to 500 rooms. The high-rise would be part of the largest project ever in downtown Greensboro.....very interesting that this is a luxury hotel. Disney's urban hotels btw would be luxury hotels....we are getting closser to finding out what these developments are. But the big story today is that multiple BIG development by separate developers are eyeing downtown and it could be the combination of these developments that make it work. This is really starting to sound bigger and bigger! But there is something MAJOR going on to have two LUXURY hotels projects. especially when just a few years ago hotels were doing poorly downtown. Luxury hotels in downtown Greensboro, especially with that many rooms just doesnt make sense unless there is a MAJOR tourist/entertainment attraction involved here. The highrise luxury hotel could potentially have more rooms then Greensboro largest luxury hotel Grandover Resort and could be larger than the downtown Marriott and half the size of the Sheraton Four Seasons. once again Ray Gibbs of DGI said that this project is Greensboro's to lose...so as long as city leaders step up to the plate, this project is likely ours. It was said that if the largest version of the project were built, it could dramatically alter Greensboro's skyline

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70513001

"This is your big chance," said John Gann, the head of Gann Associates, a Chicago-area development consultant. "There's a matter of what you do with it."

Could this still be Disney?

David Hoggard and Reporter Scott Powers from the Orlando Sentenial:

David: I was, however, able to contact the Sentinel reporter who covered that investor's meeting and relate to him the rumors about the prospects of Disney coming to Greensboro to try out some of their new ideas. I described our resurging center city, the availability of large tracts of land downtown and how we are conveniently located smack between New York and Miami.

Scott: "It wouldn't surprise me one bit", said reporter Scott Powers, "They want quick entry into new markets. What you describe seems just what they were looking for."

News& Record:

"A major developer sees merit in what we have created," said John Lomax, a downtown developer. "To me, it's sort of exciting. It is what we dreamed of from the beginning."

[nowensone]

"This is your big chance," said John Gann, the head of Gann Associates, a Chicago-area development consultant. "There's a matter of what you do with it."

This attitude, seen multiple times now regarding this project, really pisses me off. In the end, Gibbs and company are going to be bullied/overwhelmed into whatever this MASSIVE project and it's developers shove down our collective throats. Whether or not I'm reading into things with the above quote, that isn't really the point - just the attitude with which it is spoken. Anyone talking to me like that is going to be told where they can go have relations with themselves.

[roningreensboro]

"This is your big chance," said John Gann, the head of Gann Associates, a Chicago-area development consultant. "There's a matter of what you do with it."

This attitude, seen multiple times now regarding this project, really pisses me off. In the end, Gibbs and company are going to be bullied/overwhelmed into whatever this MASSIVE project and it's developers shove down our collective throats. Whether or not I'm reading into things with the above quote, that isn't really the point - just the attitude with which it is spoken. Anyone talking to me like that is going to be told where they can go have relations with themselves.

You have to remember that GSO did drop the ball on the company that wanted to build a 15 story tower beside the ballpark. So, John Gann could be referring to this and GSO inability at points to come through on big downtown projects or deals. I do agree that his comment does sound kinda a$%holish but at the sametime it doesn't.

[nowensone]

The term itself ("dropping the ball") implies that there is some positive correlation with development and growth and conversely a negative with the opposite. Not to be disingenuous, I understand the realities around that equation, and is of course partially the reason this site is a popular place, but let's get real here - it is no shortcoming to let pass development opportunities.

In reality everyone wants to see their cities grow, make best of lists, get tall buildings, have nice skylines, etc., but I'll be damned if developers should have the power they do in scenarios such as this project, or to make these kinds of comments regarding the city. Saying "this is your big chance" is an ethically questionable and patronizing sales pitch, especially when followed up with the veiled threat of "there's a matter of what you do with it" which is essentially saying give us everything we want or do whatever we want or we go somewhere else.

[cityboi]

The term itself ("dropping the ball") implies that there is some positive correlation with development and growth and conversely a negative with the opposite. Not to be disingenuous, I understand the realities around that equation, and is of course partially the reason this site is a popular place, but let's get real here - it is no shortcoming to let pass development opportunities.

In reality everyone wants to see their cities grow, make best of lists, get tall buildings, have nice skylines, etc., but I'll be damned if developers should have the power they do in scenarios such as this project, or to make these kinds of comments regarding the city. Saying "this is your big chance" is an ethically questionable and patronizing sales pitch, especially when followed up with the veiled threat of "there's a matter of what you do with it" which is essentially saying give us everything we want or do whatever we want or we go somewhere else.

unfortunately thats the real world. its the same scenario when cities dish out incentives to attract companies. If we dont give them what they want, they go elsewehere. I dont think no one likes the incentive game but its a game we have to play. Its corporate blackmail at its best

[krazeeboi]

LOL, yeah it does pretty much sound like, "Don't f$&* it up."

[cityboi]

here is an aerial of sites considered for this development. There are others but both these chevrolet lots are considered for the mega development. They would have to be combined. The project might also include the green grass lot (with one building) to the right of the bottom Chevrotlet lot. Also the former county tax building property. (brown building just to the left of the words Eugene)

lets recap. The project could consist of

1) two luxury hotels (50-room boutique and 250-500 room high-rise)One note: if the high-rise is built with 500 rooms it would be the second largest hotel in Greensboro after the 1,014 Sheraton Four Seasons.

2) entertainment complex (entertainment venues for families, children & singles)

3) ACC Hall of Champions & Museum

4) shopping/retail

5) restaurants

6) residential

7) office

The details are kind of hard to figure out because supposedly there is the MASSIVE development then there are 4 other big developments that could make this one mega development. Several out of town developers are involved here including the Florida development company. Several states including a number of cities are competing for this development and Greensboro is indeed the frontrunner. Apparently the developer is looking for a regional draw as one of the major reason Greensboro is a frontrunner has to do with its location between Charlotte and Raleigh which means these are major entertainment venues.

[krazeeboi]

I wonder what other cities/states are competing for this, because I haven't heard anything coming from other cities about a development like this. Then again, they may not be paying it as much attention.