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The Greensboro Triumph Center


cityboi

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"hype about something that any credible investor would probably back away from very quickly." 

 

You mean like a number of projects in other cities in NC such as Trump Charlotte and the Soleil Center in Raleigh. Years before the Greensboro Triumph Center there was also some big scheme to build an entertainment destination with a Hard Rock Cafe' in downtown Winston-Salem by some out of town developer.  And what about that Major League Soccer stadium that was proposed for downtown Winston-Salem? I'm not even going to get into all the "world class city" hype and talk of Charlotte hosting the World Olympics games over in the Charlotte section of UP because there is a greater chance of the Greensboro Triumph Center becoming a reality than Charlotte landing the olympics. Greensboro is not unique when it comes to big hype and pie in the sky proposals. And if you go back and look through the forums and other sites on those projects, you'll see just as much as excitement from its posters along with the skeptics.

 

Im not arguing with you. Im actually agreeing with you. Mr Cain's plan is over the top.  I get that. But if you want to see over the top boosterism and blatant hatred of Greensboro, there is another posting forum dedicated to the city 28 miles west of Greensboro across the county line. You think I'm bad, You would think that place is Atlanta or Boston the way some people talk over there. But I guess you can't blame anyone for being excited about things going on in their community. We need more people with that kind of civic pride and engaged in what going on in the community.

 

As I said. a much scaled down version right for Greensboro without all the stuff I mentioned and with the help of an experienced developer, and the project is possible just like all the other projects going up downtown. Remember the planned Wyndham hotel started out under an inexperienced developer and it was laughed at. Once someone with some experience took over, the project came back from the dead, got some legs and the city is now working out a parking arrangement with the developer.

 

Also I wasn't the only one who thought the Triumph Center was Disney. People on other local blogs said that same thing. When you read things in the paper referring to the project as a mixed-use Southeastern U.S. entertainment destination link with an Orlando development company, I think most people will naturally think that. I was told by a DGI board member that a lot of people were thinking that at first. But you are right. There was a lot of hype in the media and fast reporting without gathering all the facts. As far as race goes, I have already responded to that in the previous post. Its not what I think. Its what I've heard people say, not some imaginary conspiracy theories. I agree, not everyone thinks that way. There are legitimate reasons outside of race to be skeptical of the project. However, after things that I have heard, i'm not going to pretend like race not an issue. Its all based on old stereotypes which i'm not going to get into. It may be 2014 and we have a black president, but there are still people around with that old mindset. Lets not stick our head in the sand and pretend we live in a colorblind world.

 

I didn't realize you kept editing your post last night until almost 1:00 a.m. so I want to respond briefly to some statements which dramatically changed what you originally wrote at 10 p.m. and I didn't notice until just now.   P.s. I edit posts all the time (just did now) - but I don't dramatically change what I'm writing about.

 

No one on the Charlotte forums is making the case for the Olympics in the near future so I'm not certain why you need to attack Charlotte for that.     It is something mentioned, debated and talked about - but if you read the posts you will note most of us are skeptical - something you never could claim about this project until long after you had stated that others expressing skepticism "needed to answer for" (exact quote - look it up) their beliefs as if there is something wrong with their healthy (and turned out to be correct) opinion.  All that said - I think you are wrong.   Charlotte does has a better chance of hosting the olympics than the Greensboro Triumph Center being a destination akin to Las Vegas, Los Angeles or any other place mentioned on the project website.  

 

No one would equate Trump with Issac Cain. Trump has a record of successful projects.  He also has a record of pulling out of projects.  The point though is he has a development record.    You trying to make Donald Trump and Issac Cain as being in the same league and thus why you are right and others are wrong is the very epitome of what the makes a number of us feel it is hard to respond to you.  As Zalo said "You look to counter other Urban Planet posters comments questioning your over the top boosterism by deflecting responsibility for your actions on the un-named blog that frankly has no relevance on Urban Planet. It is a non-issue. This is just another example of your having to be right in every instance and everyone else being somehow wrong."  

 

The point is that in this case (Greensboro Triumph Center) you were wrong for at least 5-6 of the 6-7 years this thread has been in existence.  I appreciate you admit that now - but the thing is that you kind of, sort of, conditionally, beat-around-the-bushes admit it while trying to attack other cities and their projects or deflect what you said as saying it stuff "you heard" (never with a actual source).  It is never you who made a false claim or overhyped something it is always only you repeating second and third hand rumors gossip from secret sources.  Can you not see why this has been an issue in this thread?

 

As far as Disney (and an example of the above) -  I may be wrong but I believe not once did you link a source that said Disney was even rumored.   I remember you linked Greensboring blog as talking about Universal, but I never saw a source that talked about Disney.  Even if you did, you were the first to bring it up and you repeated it for pages.   To claim it was said by others (those secret sources, again) and you just repeated it is not credible.     BTW I think we all agree that there are times people will post an occasional tidbit of information that they heard and cannot link to a source, but not once have I seen anyone do what you do and repeatedly use that anonymous/secret source for years on a project AND still take umbrage at people doubting it.

 

As annoyed as I am certain my tone comes across in this post, I still stand by my earlier point that this is not meant to be personal so much as I hope you will understand the frustration you incite by a few of us and why.

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Now this is a real conspiracy theory. Next thing you know, you'll be saying I'm Mr Cain  :rofl:

 

"it's very evident to me that he is more involved with this "Mr. Cain" than he will admit. It's funny how he pays both side when it suits his"

 

"Mr. Cain" this, and "Mr. Cain" that...

 

It's funny how most of the posts on his guestbook lament about the lack of highrises and skyscrapers in Greensboro, while W-S, Charlotte, and Raleigh all have nicer skylines. Not sure why skyscrapers are so pertinent to a development website devoted to an entertainment complex, but anyway...

 

Where have we seen this same level of focus and monologue on towers (and the lack thereof) in Greensboro? Well right here in this NC Triad forum, of course. And who seems to be the only person that is overly obsessed with that topic?  -----> YOU

 

Go figure..

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I didn't realize you kept editing your post last night until almost 1:00 a.m. so I want to respond briefly to some statements which dramatically changed what you originally wrote at 10 p.m. and I didn't notice until just now.   P.s. I edit posts all the time (just did now) - but I don't dramatically change what I'm writing about.

 

No one on the Charlotte forums is making the case for the Olympics in the near future so I'm not certain why you need to attack Charlotte for that.     It is something mentioned, debated and talked about - but if you read the posts you will note most of us are skeptical - something you never could claim about this project until long after you had stated that others expressing skepticism "needed to answer for" (exact quote - look it up) their beliefs as if there is something wrong with their healthy (and turned out to be correct) opinion.  All that said - I think you are wrong.   Charlotte does has a better chance of hosting the olympics than the Greensboro Triumph Center being a destination akin to Las Vegas, Los Angeles or any other place mentioned on the project website.  

 

No one would equate Trump with Issac Cain. Trump has a record of successful projects.  He also has a record of pulling out of projects.  The point though is he has a development record.    You trying to make Donald Trump and Issac Cain as being in the same league and thus why you are right and others are wrong is the very epitome of what the makes a number of us feel it is hard to respond to you.  As Zalo said "You look to counter other Urban Planet posters comments questioning your over the top boosterism by deflecting responsibility for your actions on the un-named blog that frankly has no relevance on Urban Planet. It is a non-issue. This is just another example of your having to be right in every instance and everyone else being somehow wrong."  

 

The point is that in this case (Greensboro Triumph Center) you were wrong for at least 5-6 of the 6-7 years this thread has been in existence.  I appreciate you admit that now - but the thing is that you kind of, sort of, conditionally, beat-around-the-bushes admit it while trying to attack other cities and their projects or deflect what you said as saying it stuff "you heard" (never with a actual source).  It is never you who made a false claim or overhyped something it is always only you repeating second and third hand rumors gossip from secret sources.  Can you not see why this has been an issue in this thread?

 

As far as Disney (and an example of the above) -  I may be wrong but I believe not once did you link a source that said Disney was even rumored.   I remember you linked Greensboring blog as talking about Universal, but I never saw a source that talked about Disney.  Even if you did, you were the first to bring it up and you repeated it for pages.   To claim it was said by others (those secret sources, again) and you just repeated it is not credible.     BTW I think we all agree that there are times people will post an occasional tidbit of information that they heard and cannot link to a source, but not once have I seen anyone do what you do and repeatedly use that anonymous/secret source for years on a project AND still take umbrage at people doubting it.

 

As annoyed as I am certain my tone comes across in this post, I still stand by my earlier point that this is not meant to be personal so much as I hope you will understand the frustration you incite by a few of us and why.

 

 

The point I was trying to make is that grand visions also fail in other NC cities and that posters in city forums do a lot of hype. just as you or others may be annoyed with "hype" in the Triad section, posters, at least on other forums from place like Atlanta often get annoyed with a lot of the hype that goes on in Charlotte forums. Not an attack on Charlotte, just pointing out that hype goes on everywhere on boards like Urbanplanet. If people get annoyed by it, tough. They can move on to another topic.. btw there were serious discussions among posters in the Charlotte forum about landing the world olympics and I think a few wanted Charlotte to bid in the near future. One could easily say thats just as ludicrous as a development like the Greensboro Triumph Center going up in Greensboro. I believe its crazy too. A lot has happened in Charlotte but the city is no New York or Los Angeles and Atlanta is still ahead of the city. How one views a city is a matter of perspective. I know someone from Thomasville who views Greensboro as 'the big city". Someone from Charlotte will look at Greensboro as a small city or town. I had a neighbor from Houston that flat out said Charlotte is a small city thats overrated. They tried the olympics in a smaller large city back in 1996 (Atlanta) and it failed there miserably. The city was not large enough to handle the event which lead to a number of problems. Charlotte will never host the summer olympics. It rarely comes to the United States and when it does come, cities such as Los Angles, Chicago, Philadelphia or New York will always host it. So yes I do think Greensboro has a greater chance of having a complex like the Triumph Center than Charlotte landing the summer olympics.

 

 

But me posting a sketch from the GTC site in an attempt to get a few laughs should not have brought up old arguments about things I posted in this thread 6 years ago and claims of "over the top boosterism". The intent was not to make any claims about the Greensboro Triumph Center moving forward. However SOME elements of the project could one day happen under different more experienced developers. Thats actually happening now in some cases. The reality is that we may never see one single complex with all those attractions and amenities. But I dont care if its one development or multiple projects under different developers. The impact on downtown Greensboro is the same. Greensboro is not the same city it was a decade ago. Things are finally happening in the city and this naysayer, Greensboro is too small for this kind of attitude is getting tired and old. There is plenty of evidence of things that have happened over the last 10 years that shows Greensboro is a forward thinking community and i'm not just talking about downtown.

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Ok, for all you posters here on Urban Planet that haven't grasped the concept that citiboi is always right, and everyone else is of varying degrees of wrong. Then his latest post should clarify that for you. Hopefully this concludes this episode. Everyone have a great day.

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  • 3 weeks later...
As an infequent poster on this fourm (but regular reader), it makes me sad (and embarrased) that 40 pages has been devoted to a project that for all intents and purposes is dead. All the bickering about Greensboro's merits vs. its neighbors does not hide the fact that the city is a pleasent low key destination for anyone wanting to raise a family with reasonable costs of living and great weather. I look forward to moving back someday.
 
Sure the city has fewer skyscraper than Winston-Salem, Raliegh or Charlotte and lacks the downtown desnity of High Point, but that's not what a city makes. The city has the most lively downtown outside of Asheville at night and the city is poised for future growth thanks to manufacturing - yeah that's right. Real people making real things that people want or need. Gas pumps, electronics, jet planes and hopefully cars down the road. 
 
This will in time lift all tides for the city's residents and bring with it an infusion of new capital that Charlotte and the Triangle now enjoy. The city has a diverse group of colleges that are the key to this new focus on high tech manufacturing and lodgistics.
I do have to make issue with the comments aimed at Cityboi's statement about the media looking the other way when they found out that the person behing GTC was black. Racism exists in Greensboro (like everywhere else). Its not always blaintant and often times is perputrated without the awareness of those inflicting the harm.  The people with the power in Greensboro are still white with a legacy of wealth and influence - reguardless of what the city council or mayor's seat might look like during any given year.
 
People can only go on what they have seen in the past and make assumptions about the future based on it. Greensboro has very few black developers of consequence. The East side of town has lagged for years, with no minority developer changing much of anything. So for a black man to come out of the blue and propose such a large project is gonna be met with skeptisim. That would be the case for anyone with no track record reguardless of color.  However, I do think Mr. Cain's race quietly figured into peoples perceptions.
 
All one has to do is look at the local news to see how coverage of the black community rates vs. other parts of town. The negative image wears on the subconsious over time, so I get Cityboi's point completly. That senario plays out nationally, so Greensboro is not special in that reguard.
 
 I often wonder if isolated academic types actually have friends who are of other races and income levels than themselves. If they did, they would be far less tension related to issues of race and class. I have always thought of Greensboro as having made some progress on this subject.
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