Cap over Belk Freeway (277)

[NCMike1990]

While on the subject of Brooklyn, this video from the Observer gives us a look back at that community.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by NCMike1990

[Durhamite]

13 hours ago, NCMike1990 said:

While on the subject of Brooklyn, this video from the Observer gives us a look back at that community.

 

That is a damn shame. Imagine if those urban renewal  a$$holes had kept viable structures intact and developed around those historical buildings, uptown would be viewed much differently.  That is really the missing piece in uptown, a few blocks of a historical stretch of buildings.  Ironically, every city in NC has this type of area or stretch of buildings  but Charlotte.  And seemingly Charlotte leaders have a hard time understanding to replicate that feel doesn’t require massive corporate style developments.  

[Windsurfer]

On 4/24/2022 at 6:36 AM, Durhamite said:

That is a damn shame. Imagine if those urban renewal  a$$holes had kept viable structures intact and developed around those historical buildings, uptown would be viewed much differently.  That is really the missing piece in uptown, a few blocks of a historical stretch of buildings.  Ironically, every city in NC has this type of area or stretch of buildings  but Charlotte.  And seemingly Charlotte leaders have a hard time understanding to replicate that feel doesn’t require massive corporate style developments.  

One comment stands out: "every city in NC has this type of area or stretch...."  .  This is so true, and I submit one reason Odell and the others were so anxious to bring out the bulldozers was in order to differentiate ourselves from the old South.  The same guys, remember, were the ones who lobbied for banks and headquarters. 

I vividly remember Brooklyn. I'm sure it was home for many of those folks, but it's easy to romanticize.  Anyone else remember the outhouses extended out over Sugar Creek?  Anyone remember the murder rate?    I went to First Ward Elementary in the early 70s.   I can still remember the locals trying to scare us through the chain link fence.

Whenever someone has a plan, like Odell and those guys, it's going to affect others and often in a negative way.  I sound like a broken record, but, one day we'll wake up and wonder why we didn't do more to save the trees. Even now, on another thread someone posted a picture of a beautiful 210 acre tract of wooded land that would make an awesome natural area for Rock Hill.  Instead the voices are, "Great potential practice field!"  We get all giggly when Google, Amazon, or Wamart and Beacon bulldozes another hundred acres......just like the urban planners in the 60s did with urban renewal.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Windsurfer
spelling

[JRCLT]

One comment stands out: "every city in NC has this type of area or stretch...."  .  This is so true, and I submit one reason Odell and the others were so anxious to bring out the bulldozers was in order to differentiate ourselves from the old South.  The same guys, remember, were the ones who lobbied for banks and headquarters. 
I vividly remember Brooklyn. I'm sure it was home for many of those folks, but it's easy to romanticize.  Anyone else remember the outhouses extended out over Sugar Creek?  Anyone remember the murder rate?    I went to First Ward Elementary in the early 70s.   I can still remember the locals trying to scare us through the chain link fence.
Whenever someone has a plan, like Odell and those guys, it's going to affect others and often in a negative way.  I sound like a broken record, but, one day we'll wake up and wonder why we didn't do more to save the trees. Even now, on another thread someone posted a picture of a beautiful 210 acre tract of wooded land that would make an awesome natural area for Rock Hill.  Instead the voices are, "Great potential practice field!"  We get all giggly when Google, Amazon, or Wamart and Beacon bulldozes another hundred acres......just like the urban planners in the 60s did with urban renewal.

Good Point!

[Boricua]

6 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

One comment stands out: "every city in NC has this type of area or stretch...."  .  This is so true, and I submit one reason Odell and the others were so anxious to bring out the bulldozers was in order to differentiate ourselves from the old South.  The same guys, remember, were the ones who lobbied for banks and headquarters. 

I vividly remember Brooklyn. I'm sure it was home for many of those folks, but it's easy to romanticize.  Anyone else remember the outhouses extended out over Sugar Creek?  Anyone remember the murder rate?    I went to First Ward Elementary in the early 70s.   I can still remember the locals trying to scare us through the chain link fence.

Whenever someone has a plan, like Odell and those guys, it's going to affect others and often in a negative way.  I sound like a broken record, but, one day we'll wake up and wonder why we didn't do more to save the trees. Even now, on another thread someone posted a picture of a beautiful 210 acre tract of wooded land that would make an awesome natural area for Rock Hill.  Instead the voices are, "Great potential practice field!"  We get all giggly when Google, Amazon, or Wamart and Beacon bulldozes another hundred acres......just like the urban planners in the 60s did with urban renewal.

Never got the love for Brooklyn. From pictures I've seen and what I've read the Brooklyn that was demolished was a slum that took up a quarter of uptown. Not the Brooklyn of vibrant shops, schools and churches that it was back in the day

[Guest]

I feel like some people are being obtuse about the Brooklyn thing. The neighborhood received little investment from the city and wider community for decades due to the race of its inhabitants. No one is arguing that the buildings that were demolished should have all stayed or were architectural marvels, the problem is that the people were displaced on a large scale when it was demolished, and that people of any race have not lived in the area in a significant capacity ever since. We aren’t mourning the loss of buildings, but of a community, one that has still not been mended or even replaced. 

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, MothBeast said:

I feel like some people are being obtuse about the Brooklyn thing. The neighborhood received little investment from the city and wider community for decades due to the race of its inhabitants. No one is arguing that the buildings that were demolished should have all stayed or were architectural marvels, the problem is that the people were displaced on a large scale when it was demolished, and that people of any race have not lived in the area in a significant capacity ever since. We aren’t mourning the loss of buildings, but of a community, one that has still not been mended or even replaced. 

It's happening today in North Charlotte.  Albeit by private enterprise.  I had more than one church member come to me (business was on Statesville Ave) asking me if it was true that the city was going to condemn their property. Apparently, more than one investor gave to their church and convinced their pastor of this in the hopes the homeowners would sell their property.  Several of my ex employees were given 30 days notice, despite having lived in the neighborhood for over 30 years.  "Progress" can be ugly.  All those nice new brewpubs are doing to increase the value of surrounding land and adjoining neighborhoods.

[Guest]

I try not to blame our successes in development for our failures in gentrification, because I know that displacement can be properly and justly addressed without negatively affecting development. It isn’t a zero sum game, you can make a lot of money by investing in an area and make it livelier and safer while also providing affordable units in the neighborhood for the residents you are physically displacing. I hate seeing people complain about development rather than complain that our local government and  developers aren’t doing anything about its negative effects. I’m not saying you’re @Windsurferdoing this at all by the way your post just made me think of it 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Guest

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, MothBeast said:

you can make a lot of money by investing in an area and make it livelier and safer while also providing affordable units in the neighborhood for the residents you are physically displacing.

That would be ideal.  Where have you seen that done here in NC?

[JRCLT]

Gentrification is a complex concept. Simply building something new doesn’t always translate to displacement.

Cool video about about new development and gentrification:

If you have time to watch do so!

Also there’s a short segment on people sh*ting on brick buildings in contrast to the wooden buildings that came before it. I was mentioning this in the uptown hotels thread.

[Guest]

NC is obviously not the best example for that but my point still stands I think. It can be done, not saying it is feasible

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, MothBeast said:

I try not to blame our successes in development for our failures in gentrification, because I know that displacement can be properly and justly addressed without negatively affecting development. It isn’t a zero sum game, you can make a lot of money by investing in an area and make it livelier and safer while also providing affordable units in the neighborhood for the residents you are physically displacing. I hate seeing people complain about development rather than complain that our local government and  developers aren’t doing anything about its negative effects. I’m not saying you’re @Windsurferdoing this at all by the way your post just made me think of it 

I get it.  This is the spirit of urbanplanet, no?  Find the grey areas and improve on the good things.  While I disagree with a lot of things said on here, I find all of it thought-provoking.

Regards.

 

[kermit]

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by kermit

[kermit]

There is talk in Durham about removing 147 (Durham Expressway) which cut a similar scar through downtown Durham as did 277.  I don't have a sense of how serious those discussions are.

Lets get these roads gone and return the city to people who actually live there.

Edited June 28, 2022 by kermit

[kermit]

The Belk River proposal is serving its purpose!

We all know it is unpossible but it has gotten people (including important ones) to think about all we can have if we remove the Belk. (And that a cap is an expensive bullcrap half measure)

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by kermit

[ertley]

I would honestly settle for just capping the single smallest possible section--that between Tryon and College. It would be SO worth it, in unifying downtown and upper South End, and I can't believe, after Queensbridge is built, that the rights for developing such a block wouldn't far outweigh the costs of adapting the infrastructure. 

[Reverie39]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:28 PM, ertley said:

I would honestly settle for just capping the single smallest possible section--that between Tryon and College. It would be SO worth it, in unifying downtown and upper South End, and I can't believe, after Queensbridge is built, that the rights for developing such a block wouldn't far outweigh the costs of adapting the infrastructure. 

I really like this idea because it feels like something that could actually happen. And despite its small size I’d say it’s a much closer outcome to capping several blocks than not capping any at all, just because of that unification you talked about. 

[go_vertical]

If they were going to do that they might as well go all the way to Church. College to Church would open up enough space for five or six towers. 

[kermit]

The river meme continues to be in the minds of important people. The Lynn referred to in this tweet is Bert Lynn, the Capital Planning Division Director at Mecklenburg County Park and Recreation Department. I love that there is now some glimmer of awareness of the costs of car culture among people in power.
 

Edited July 11, 2022 by kermit

[kermit]

The federal govt just announced a $300 million grant program for passenger ferry grants. Charlotte needs to get on this we want the electric cat ferry from Midtown to the new BoA stadium (with a medical school campus stop) to have decent frequency….

 

[Reverie39]

What if we took the River District and put it beside 277 instead. Then Charlotte would be required to place a river next to it, right?

[Madison Parkitect]

Another example of how to cap a freeway with a park https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/San-Francisco-Tunnel-Tops-park-open-in-presidio-17309797.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

People want to create a world-class park in Charlotte? This is where we do it.

[kermit]

Metro Mexico City has roughly 21 million people, we have (roughly) 2.1 million. So logic dictates that this should be 10x easier for us to pull off?

Edited July 19, 2022 by kermit

[JRCLT]

Metro Mexico City has roughly 21 million people, we have (roughly) 2.1 million. This should be 10x easier for us to pull off!
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2022_07/FB6415F5-216F-47E9-BFD7-5815B6A2257D.thumb.jpeg.63760871d21b720e95c47bcf7c1dbc16.jpeg

It really should be easier than whatever is going on now

[kermit]

So Seattle essentially put a cap over the Alaskan Way Viaduct a few years ago (they built a tunnel for it) in order to connect downtown to their waterfront. Turns out they should have just removed it. Toll revenue and traffic are running way below expectations, the tunnel is going to need a bailout, so non drivers are going to end up paying for this boondoggle.

Removing the Belk (not capping) is the fiscally prudent thing to do.

Quote

That 2030 forecast is lower than the actual volumes the highway saw in 2019, before tolling was implemented and prior to the impact of the pandemic on traffic volumes. But now traffic volumes are well below 40,000 per day: numbers from last year show slightly more than 32,000 vehicles per day, and WSDOT’s volume dashboard shows that volumes on the corridor have been consistently 30-40% below their pre-pandemic levels even as other state highways are essentially back to pre-pandemic traffic volumes.

https://www.theurbanist.org/2022/07/22/sr-99-tunnel-is-bleeding-money-as-toll-revenue-forecasts-plunge/

Edited July 27, 2022 by kermit