ChiefJoJo

Clarence E. Lightner Public Safety Center

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I figured I'd keep all the City government related stuff in one thread...Here are three proposed locations for a consolidated City campus (scroll past the Six Forks corridor stuff). I think I like the idea of scenario #2 with say a traditional looking city hall that compliments the Duke Energy Center complex. Would free up the current municipal block for that mythical 50 story tower...

Edited by Jones_

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9 hours ago, Jones_ said:

I figured I'd keep all the City government related stuff in one thread...

Here are three proposed locations for a consolidated City campus (scroll past the Six Forks corridor stuff). 

I think I like the idea of scenario #2 with say a traditional looking city hall that compliments the Duke Energy Center complex. Would free up the current municipal block for that mythical 50 story tower...

The link doesn't work for me?

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There was this update earlier this month...  http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/raleigh-report-blog/article75417117.html

Sounds like building up the existing municipal block is the preferred option.  Very prelim cost estimate $93 million.  And the city expects to get at least $50 million from selling excess property downtown - so pretty good start for funding.  The article mentions the Red Hat Tower as a comparable size to what is needed.   I would love to see a 17 story tower on the current empty police station site and a new parking deck to replace the current one and then line Morgan Street with a Palladium Plaza type residential building to hide the parking!  (Keep the current city hall building with some exterior updates)

I've already seen rumblings that the City is gauging interest for selling the Fire Station #1 site (.46 ac).  Which is connected to the City's Dillon building with another .76 ac... so decent size area for redevelopment further connecting the warehouse district to Nash Sq.

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I think it's time for the City to get on with it, and it appears lessons were learned from the Lightner Center debacle. The public went into apoplexy when when the first price tag of $225 million was quoted in 2008 (would be much higher in today's dollars). The soon-to-open Critical Public Safety Facility in OTB northeast is $75 million. Selling some of the City's real estate holdings as a down payment on the new municipal office complex makes great sense.

Edited by ctl

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The City has slowly been orienting itself for something by moving staff out of non-central, city owned properties to leased space. This is so they can sell these properties. Those properties will generate down payment money for this project. It's a good move on all fronts as it returns those other properties to the tax rolls (sort of like a TIF). I hope this tweet is an indication that things are about to really start moving...

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I'd rather they take the NE corner stub and add it to the SE corner stub to get one corner 27-30 floors tall rather than two corners each 20 floors tall.

cityhall-edit.jpg

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4 hours ago, Jones_ said:

The City has slowly been orienting itself for something by moving staff out of non-central, city owned properties to leased space. This is so they can sell these properties. Those properties will generate down payment money for this project. It's a good move on all fronts as it returns those other properties to the tax rolls (sort of like a TIF). I hope this tweet is an indication that things are about to really start moving...

I think they're working toward it finally:
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/raleigh-report-blog/article157220279.html

"Raleigh wants to tear down City Hall, build new government campus"

Edited by DPK
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8 hours ago, Green_man said:

I'd rather they take the NE corner stub and add it to the SE corner stub to get one corner 27-30 floors tall rather than two corners each 20 floors tall.

cityhall-edit.jpg

That massing can't be even close to how it'll turn out because then mentioned it including green space and this massing appears to show none...unless it's a hidden courtyard. My guess is the entire assemblage will sort of open up to and face Nash Square like traditional City Halls face a plaza...monumental stairs or some sort of awe inspiring entrance facing Nash would be appropriate in my opinion. Towers soaring behind that pulled up close against Morgan St casting shadows on the Campbell parking deck (meaning that it is harmless as opposed to towers looming over the green Nash Sq) while giving Morgan some bit of sidewalk friendliness would be a marked improvement in that direction. They better get this right because it'll say "Raleigh" for a long long time. 

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The trick is getting a complex that's both useful and eye-catching without incurring so high a price tag that the project becomes a magnet for opposition, as did the Lightner Center. The Wake County Commission walked the tightrope quite well when they built their new HQ.

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As part of the project, I hope they tear down that terrible little parking deck and rebuild one with some ground floor retail. They could make it at least 7 levels or so to get the people on board who are always asking for more downtown parking. The streets surrounding the parking deck on that block are so pedestrian-unfriendly that having some ground floor retail would really help that block. Having space to bring in rent and having a paid parking deck could help offset some of the costs at least long term. 

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Since the city council has been very vocal about the lack of affordable housing in downtown Raleigh I would expect the city to include a good number of them in this project...put up or shut up! 

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2 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

Since the city council has been very vocal about the lack of affordable housing in downtown Raleigh I would expect the city to include a good number of them in this project...put up or shut up! 

You probably won't see anything on this site (though it had never crossed my mind so thanks for the out-of-the-box thought), but the City's affordable housing folks did make money selling the Hargett Place site and I think also Stone's warehouse, so those funds are in the hopper now. 

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to leverage some money making opportunities by selling expensive property downtown, and then being able to make more affordable units in other places. But several criteria must be met in my mind: 1) it must be a net gain in units 2) it must be oriented near retail, especially grocery stores and 3) it must be near good public transit options. Now the question...where are these places?

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That's a great point.  Currently, downtown living would not  an ideal location for affordable units due to the distance to many of the amenities needed like groceries.  Now if the city solicited for a grocery store on this block as part of the project... there's your win-win-win.

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My main point was that the city must include some "affordable housing" on this site or how else can they be taken seriously when they are requesting it of developers? Also, the city wants affordable housing where-ever it can get it...not just in the most optimal places...I say again, put up or shut up! And not, do as I say, not as I do... ;-)

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Update from the city's civic campus master plan 2/13/18 presentation.  Very general massing but looks like some cool ideas.  Open ground level to act as an extension of Nash Square and then an elevated public 2nd floor with open spaces and galleries.

Full presentation can be found here:  http://www.itbinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/WorkSession_Draft-PlanFinal-Handout.pdf

raleighcitybuilding.thumb.jpg.528663104ce4f8ca6ebb6df8ee08960f.jpg

civic building-ground.jpg

civic building-2nd.jpg

civic building-office.jpg

civic building-mixed-use.jpg

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Good deal...I'd been thinking the classical, grand staircase entrance facing Nash would be the way to go. I think I put a similar thought in my downtown master plan comments if they'd put the city complex down between Exploris's new spot and Duke Energy Center...but either way it works. 

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Another thought, it looks like they are relying on the "3rd party development" for providing parking.  My opinion, a better idea (although higher costs)  would be if they built 2-3 levels below grade that filled the entire block.  Or another option add 5-6 levels to one of the office buildings for parking at the base.  The parking is mainly for the city employees use, so seems odd that the city wouldn't plan to provide this themselves.

Or another solution, get N&O block developer to build extra like how they asked/leased extra spaces from the Dillon.

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On the one hand, the presentation mentions 500 walk-in customers per day. On the other hand, it leaves visitor/citizen parking unresolved. C'mon. 

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The could wrap the deck with residential like The L, and/or build on top of it like The Dillon. I think that is what that third building will be similar to. 

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Looks like they hope to have an occupied building in 4 years.

Also I note that they say:

"Establish a City parking philosophy and goals for employee parking " on page 22.

Sounds like they are going to apply the same 'more people than parking spaces' philosophy to themselves that they allow downtown development. I always thought the State (for whom I work) should provide a parking stipend that matches the price of their own parking decks (currently only $10-15 a month, but I'd raise that a lot in this scenario), and allow employees to keep that stipend if it goes unused (I guess that's the definition of a stipend). So you could get say a $50-$100 a month raise, if you just figure out a way to work other than driving yourself all the way to the State parking garages. City could do the same. However, I imagine what they'll really do is implement mandatory work from home days or something like that. 

Edited by Jones_

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Great to have a philosophy, I agree!

So now, until that philosophy is better determined and as the paying public,  how many vehicle spacers are we talking?

:-)

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