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SKYE Condominiums and Hyatt Place Hotel

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^The numbers I posted for NJ firefighters are readily available on-line. I don't know what you mean by our friend Victor but I contend that firefighters from NJ don't get retirement benefits anywhere close to $150K/year. What you are saying is someone making $55K-$65/year somehow used tricks to bump the final year salary to $300K.

No what I'm saying is that this fireman is employed with two different departments that feed two separate pension funds, allowing him to collect the maximum amount based on both separate salaries. In reality, his pension will likely be much higher than I stated, though I can't say with certainty. My guess is that he was significantly promoted within one department, transferred to another at that same pay grade, but maintained part-time work to keep his pension clock running at his original department. He then has boosted his current salary through loop-holes. Bottom line, he could show a lender $152k cash in the pocket for 2007 and can prove his pension plan, so I'm not surprised he would get approved for a mortgage of that size. I'm not suggesting he made a good investment, rather showing where the demand for this product comes from. Per NJ pension records, over 3,800 employees had pensionable salaries in excess of $100,000/year in 2007.

Not that it has much to do with the Park, as I doubt many NJ public servants are buying second homes in Charlotte, though many are following their children here and becoming full time residents.

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Our friend Victor the Fireman made $152k last year per NJ pension records. This does not include sick days and PTO that public employees can typically carry forward and be reimbursed in their final year, which in many highly "workers rights" states can be counted as part of the salary used to calculate pension (as often can reimbursable expenses).

I maintain that Victor will be living quite comfortably by his lonesome in Florida :)

Your research is amazing sometimes. I assume this came from your own research and not the articles (which I've not read)?

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No what I'm saying is that this fireman is employed with two different departments that feed two separate pension funds, allowing him to collect the maximum amount based on both separate salaries. ....
Ahh so you are giving "not likely" scenarios Normally to be elegible for maximum retirement benefits, you have to have full time status at a job. I can't imagine someone holding 2 full time jobs for 40 years simultaneously.

If this is the research that people here are applauding you for, it just goes to prove to me there is still some unrealistic belief the collapse we have seen in Charlotte isn't normal and somehow all will be reversed and we will be selling condos, and tiny houses near downtown at nose bleeding prices again. If you believe the local media, this will be some time in 2010. Or just several minutes into the future. My guess is this belief is mostly held by those who have a vested interest in this property now.

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The "overall market" excuse for The Park, which this topic is about, doesn't fly. The point being made is the building was unnecessary, not wanted, and was the result of the hysteria surrounding high end properties and especially those downtown.

No point in debating the opinion of 'unnecessary' since it is just that, an opinion. We as a whole don't choose our housing simply based on necessity for the most part. Living on a lake is technically unnecessary as is living on a golf course. It is unnecessary for most to live in a huge home or for most to have a huge yard. Those things are, however, desired just as some desire to live in a high rise building. No more or less unnecessary than other choices.

As for unwanted, by you for sure, but for the buyers who signed up for these and subsequently lost their deposits the building was quite obviously wanted.

Once and for all -- this building failed because the developer flopped. Then they tried to restart it during the worst economic climate overall to do just that.

We all know and see that your opinion is one that thinks uptown condos in Charlotte either shouldn't be built or buyers shouldn't buy them but the buying public doesn't seem to agree. Really it doesn't matter one way or another. There are, in fact, people who want that lifestyle just as there are those who don't. :thumbsup:

Edited by Charlotte_native

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.....

We all know and see that your opinion is one that thinks uptown condos in Charlotte either shouldn't be built or buyers shouldn't buy them but the buying public doesn't seem to agree. Really it doesn't matter one way or another. There are, in fact, people who want that lifestyle just as there are those who don't. :thumbsup:

Sure. Never said otherwise. The point being made however is there isn't enough of them who can afford it, to support these things in downtown. That much is obvious now. There is no practical reason to build a residential skyscraper in downtown, not when so much of it is just parking lots. So what you are talking about are luxury or vanity towers and that is the market that doesn't exist anymore.

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So what you are talking about are luxury or vanity towers and that is the market that doesn't exist anymore.

We can certainly agree on that. I'd argue though, and time will tell, that the lack of demand isn't from a lack of people who would like to live in a place like this, but an economic climate that makes this type of project something that doesn't make sense at this point.

As for The Park itself I'll be very surprised if anyone wants to jump in on this any time soon.

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...that the lack of demand isn't from a lack of people who would like to live in a place like this,....
That is a pointless statement to be honest with you. I am sure a homeless person would like to live in a place such as that. However when judged against what it really costs to own something such as this, the demand disappears. If it didn't there would still be lotteries for the foolish to gain a spot in line to buy one.

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That is a pointless statement to be honest with you. I am sure a homeless person would like to live in a place such as that. However when judged against what it really costs to own something such as this, the demand disappears. If it didn't there would still be lotteries for the foolish to gain a spot in line to buy one.

So enlighten us on what housing is proper and completely and only done out of need since that is the basis for the decisions one should make. I think most residences, by your definition on this thread, could technically be considered unnessary in their scope, scale, and size.

The demand didn't disappear, the ability to buy did and that is a completely different discussion. Pointless. This is why half the names you'll find in threads from a year or two ago are gone and quiet these days. Tired of the incessant bantering that leads to nothing and doesn't enlighten anyone.

Edited by Charlotte_native

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So enlighten us on what housing is proper and completely and only done out of need since that is the basis for the decisions one should make. I think most residences, by your definition on this thread, could technically be considered unnessary in their scope, scale, and size. ...
As usual you simply didn't read what I have posted. I never said that housing is built strictly out of need. If I did, then point it out and we will discuss it. I can only wonder if you do this constantly in a vain attempt to avoid the issue at hand.

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In actual news about The Park, the bidding process is down to 3 potential buyers now. Two of them are from Florida and the other is a joint venture between a general contractor and Charlotte resident Billy Packer (yes, the CBS College Basketball announcer). No idea who the Florida parties are, but wouldn't mind seeing this thing kept local since the Park may stand a better chance of actually getting done. I'd imagine the contractor would have local workers as well.

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In actual news about The Park, the bidding process is down to 3 potential buyers now. Two of them are from Florida and the other is a joint venture between a general contractor and Charlotte resident Billy Packer (yes, the CBS College Basketball announcer). No idea who the Florida parties are, but wouldn't mind seeing this thing kept local since the Park may stand a better chance of actually getting done. I'd imagine the contractor would have local workers as well.

Great find. Packer is also a fairly prolific developer around here. He's done a few nondescript track home developments around here. His most notable project is probably Old Beau golf resort up in the mountains.

Personally never cared much for the guy since his Money Store days, but he might have the name along with his financial backers to make a go of this.

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In actual news about The Park, the bidding process is down to 3 potential buyers now. Two of them are from Florida and the other is a joint venture between a general contractor and Charlotte resident Billy Packer (yes, the CBS College Basketball announcer). No idea who the Florida parties are, but wouldn't mind seeing this thing kept local since the Park may stand a better chance of actually getting done. I'd imagine the contractor would have local workers as well.

Thanks for the update and the info. It's nice to read some news here related to the topic.

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From the other topic about aquariums, the thought occured to me that they can take The Park and turn it into a big paintball urban warfare amusement park. They just need to clean the grounds up some, put some fences on it and paint it some complementary garish colors to add to the already decaying look. Perfect for re-creating those guerilla warfare scenarios, first person shooter in real life games, and reliving those scenes from apocalyptic scifi movies where you shoot the various and sundry radiation created mutants and crazed robots. Of course don't leave out the standard cops and robbers stuff.

They could do Road Warrior go cart racing on the floors of the parking deck.

Should be quite the tourist draw. I can't think of anything else like that in the USA

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http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...7/tidbits1.html

(scroll down for article)

According to the CBJ, insiders expect a deal within days for a Florida investor to the finish the project for residential use.

I guess we'll see what that means, but it will certainly be good for the losses to make the books once and for all and for some new start to be made to turn this eye sore into livable housing units.

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I sure hope so. I get tired of looking at it in its present state every time I'm driving west on Independence. Even more so, I get tired of looking at the god-awful backside of Courtside also, but that's another subject.

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At this point, are they still considering selling these as condos, or is it more likely to be apartments?

Probably both, the Catalyst also had to take that approach to be able to try and releave some of the cost to carry the project after completion and the loan started to mature.

I would love to see it finished, yet I feel sorry for the team thats going to have to get it up and running agian. The remediation and logistics they will have to endure just to start construction agian would be substantial. it has been there forever now open to the elements. I would gut the shell and start over. well that would be the easiest solution anyway.

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So enlighten us on what housing is proper and completely and only done out of need since that is the basis for the decisions one should make. I think most residences, by your definition on this thread, could technically be considered unnessary in their scope, scale, and size.

The demand didn't disappear, the ability to buy did and that is a completely different discussion. Pointless. This is why half the names you'll find in threads from a year or two ago are gone and quiet these days. Tired of the incessant bantering that leads to nothing and doesn't enlighten anyone.

Amen...

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Drum roll please.......

Small Brothers LLC says it has bought the Park from BB Syndication and hired the Charlotte branch of Cleveland Construction Inc. to complete the 21-story, 106-unit tower.

The most important quote from the story: "We are very excited to complete the project as quickly as possible."

:yahoo:

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Hey this reminds me - I drove Southbound on Caldwell from Trade to Stonewall today!!

The Park looks different from that side of the street. And it's a new way to approach the NASCARHOF. In fact, it is THE way to approach the NASCARHOF to appreciate the beautiful design of the ribbon.

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Very cool about Caldwell and The Park.

I am relieved to see that the buyer plans to include the original contract holders, although I am sure they will get pennies on the dollar just like the others swindled by Verna's company.

Hopefully there will be some design improvements, but that is hard to expect. Frankly, my expectations have been lowered so much on this project, I just want them to finish it, regardless of how uninteresting the design may be.

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