Jerry Falwell dead at 73

[Pillsbury]

I think you only have to look back to Klan activity 60 years ago in remote areas in this country (primarily the South) to see how lax societal pressures and sympathetic communities will change people

[UptownNewOrleans]

LOL@all of you. The beliefs of Falwell DO NOT represent the beliefs of all Christians. Being a Christian, Falwell should know that you don't reach sinners for Christ by preaching hellfire and brimstone, you reach the lost by showing them love and speaking the truth in love. Once you have told them about Christ, you've done your job. The rest is up to them. Remember, he's going to have to give an account to God for his misdeeds, but to speak ill of him makes you no better than he is.

[Pillsbury]

i am still not sure if you really understand the lengths that some christian fundamentalists will go to. again, i offer the example of eric rudolph, the olympic bomber, who is serving life in isolation for that bombing and the bombing of several abortion clinics. the problem with people like falwell is they empower others. while falwell may have never said "kill the gays and abortionists", he helped empower the christian fundies who would do something like that.

i do truly believe that people like falwell would stone gays if they didn't risk such a backlash from society. frankly, i'm surprised phelps isn't doing it.

my thoughts exactly. most of the KKK were and are christian fundamentalists.

[runawayjim]

LOL@all of you. The beliefs of Falwell DO NOT represent the beliefs of all Christians. Being a Christian, Falwell should know that you don't reach sinners for Christ by preaching hellfire and brimstone, you reach the lost by showing them love and speaking the truth in love. Once you have told them about Christ, you've done your job. The rest is up to them. Remember, he's going to have to give an account to God for his misdeeds, but to speak ill of him makes you no better than he is.

[Charlotteman]

LOL@all of you. The beliefs of Falwell DO NOT represent the beliefs of all Christians. Being a Christian, Falwell should know that you don't reach sinners for Christ by preaching hellfire and brimstone, you reach the lost by showing them love and speaking the truth in love. Once you have told them about Christ, you've done your job. The rest is up to them. Remember, he's going to have to give an account to God for his misdeeds, but to speak ill of him makes you no better than he is.

[skylinefan]

LOL@all of you. The beliefs of Falwell DO NOT represent the beliefs of all Christians. Being a Christian, Falwell should know that you don't reach sinners for Christ by preaching hellfire and brimstone, you reach the lost by showing them love and speaking the truth in love. Once you have told them about Christ, you've done your job. The rest is up to them. Remember, he's going to have to give an account to God for his misdeeds, but to speak ill of him makes you no better than he is.

[runawayjim]

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but I personally don't appreciate being called "lost" because I am not a bible thumping religious fanatic. That very mindset---considering other people "lost"---is exactly what makes fundamentalist christianity so corrupt.

I can guarantee to any christian that happens to be interested: I am NOT lost, and I don't need your baseless mythology to create a happy life for myself.

[skylinefan]

exactly! that's the one thing i hate. no, i have not found jesus, maybe he's under a rock somewhere, but i don't really care. christianity is about accepting others. telling people that their religion is wrong or untrue or that they're going to suffer eternal damnation if they don't believe in jesus is not accepting of others.

no, he is just as bad as fred phelps, he was just smart enough not to say the things in public that phelps says.

[Charlotteman]

A nagging question about Falwell keeps tugging at me......

I've been an out gay man since 1972, and I've seen it over and over in my life. I've seen it til the cows come home----the most vabid homophobes are queer themselves.

The psychology of it is so obvious---projecting your personal guilt by directing hate toward those who don't have that guilt. (i.e. "out" gays)

Why do Pat Robertson and why did Falwell continually harp on homosexuality? They are probably both closet homos. Happy, well adjusted heteros don't hate homos. They're too busy living their own life!

[nowensone]

<off topic>

I think it was Pillsbury that mentioned wearing cotton and polyester at the same time as being a sin in the bible - can you expound more on that? I keep thinking about it, and generally how people want to control/condemn/regulate what others do that has zero bearing on them. That to me is a offense worth castration, and is the pinnacle of anti-humanity and cluelessness.

[monsoon]

.....but to speak ill of him makes you no better than he is.

[JDC]

What has he done to warrant being compared to Hitler?

[convulso]

people have passion about this sort of thing, pro or con - including (perhaps especially) those who post things like 'i couldn't care less' about x or y. if that's the case, shrug and don't post. cold ignorance is a far more devastating tactic than ranting against something you don't care much about. i have learned that the hard way and hope i don't forget it.

falwell was a flawed man, as far as i can see, and i believe he mistook hatred of persons for vigilance in caring for their perceived flaws. in other words, i think he was a product of a lifetime of a cultivated mentality of hatred which he instead believed was righteous, necessary love. i know that of which i speak; my deep-south christian upbringing was a far sterner variety of the fundamentalism promulgated by the falwells and pat robertsons of the world. it has exercised such power over its adherents that i am utterly alone in an extended family of 20+ who has separated from this particular doctrine.

but i believe that, in the world he inhabited - a world both culturally and generationally removed from many of you - he was also a kind man who enriched the modest lives of a great many people. he did much to help those whom he would allow himself to help (believers and those expressing interest in belief) and, within the confines of that flock, i believe you would be hard pressed to find very many people who would reflect on falwell as a hateful, devious man. so much of organized religion - particularly, in my experience, the culture of religion endemic to the deep south - is simply Giving People Something To Do. it provides a container into which the energies of mundane people may be poured...i'm not saying here that religion is the opiate of the masses - which is condescending to both masses and religion (and perhaps opiates) - but rather that for many who do not have an intellectual basis for their faith, it is a wholly appropriate vessel to hold their hopes and shut out their fears, and to simply help them plan their day/week/life. a hell of a lot of people need that, and they will find it one way or another, whether through religion or through other means. a big church isn't always the answer, but in falwell's case, it was, and as a minister of such a flock, i do not think he was black to the core.

many adherents of falwell's megachurch brand of fundamentalism (as opposed to rural family church fundamentalism) are a bit more conflicted in their convictions; the strength of their dogma is far more varied and inconsistent than the hardline dogma voiced by the man at the top of their particular pyramid. if falwell were as vitriolic as pat robertson, his position might have made his sway over so many followers dangerous. under the wrong circumstances, he might have become dangerous. i do believe that he may have been misguided enough (and robertson is even more so) to have become hitleresque in his ability to mobilize a bloc of like-minded followers and drive them over the edge of a very high cliff. that doesn't change my opinion that he was not an altogether evil man.

flame away. bad people are never all bad, and good people are never all good. sometimes the bad in people is a function of malice, and sometimes it is a function of ignorance. i feel that falwell's evils represented a mixture of both. i can at least look at his obit without rejoicing at his death, even though i do not celebrate or condone most of the things he taught in life. i think of robert duvall's movie the apostle when i think of falwell types, and they are all, in some measure, sympathetic characters to me.

it's all a matter of opinion, this talk of whether a man is all good or all bad, and mine is as irrational as all of them are. that's people for ya.

[nowensone]

^ Interesting take on things, that people need a way to vehicle through which to direct unexpressed energies. From personal experience this rings true to me, I have had family members that are, to use neutral terms, in a state of some isolation from the world who focused energies in such angry and ignorant ways thru religion.

[Pillsbury]

It's arguable that Falwell's done anything to be compared to Hitler, but that wasn't my point.

Hitler's dead. He said he refuses to speak ill of the dead. But I'd guess that few would hesitate to speak ill of a guy like Hitler. Back to Falwell...

[Charlotteman]

There have been quite a few people today that are questioning if Falwell might have been even worse in private than in public...i.e. agreeing with Ayatollah Phelps but keeping it to himself.....

What a dark thought. Scary. To me, Falwell epitomized evil. He caused unnecessary misery for untold numbers of people. If he was even worse in private than what he projected in public, I'm really scared.

Would you posters that have mentioned the possibility of a Falwell/Phelps common belief system please expound more on that idea? Thanks.

[runawayjim]

Would you posters that have mentioned the possibility of a Falwell/Phelps common belief system please expound more on that idea? Thanks.

[nowensone]

^ I fear more the person who is calculating enough to keep some things hidden.

[MadVlad]

There have been quite a few people today that are questioning if Falwell might have been even worse in private than in public...i.e. agreeing with Ayatollah Phelps but keeping it to himself.....

What a dark thought. Scary. To me, Falwell epitomized evil. He caused unnecessary misery for untold numbers of people. If he was even worse in private than what he projected in public, I'm really scared.

Would you posters that have mentioned the possibility of a Falwell/Phelps common belief system please expound more on that idea? Thanks.

[dimebag1980]

Oh stop. You have 7000 posts on this site and ought to know the response you were going to get by posting a eulogy to Jerry Falwell in the UrbanPlanet Coffeehouse. You or totally clueless or being disingenuous if really thought the people on this forum had many kind words for this asshole. I go the disingenuous route.

You spoke your mind on what you thought, let people speak theirs since you brought it up or, as you have said before I believe, you will stay away from topics in the Coffeehouse.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Falwell was a net negative for the world, and the world is better without his ilk having the ear of the power structure.

This death has been most interesting though, there's actually been some rather extreme public bashing of the man a day after his death:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0705/15/acd.01.html

COOPER: Do you believe he believed what he spoke?

HITCHENS: Of course not. He woke up every morning, as I say, pinching his chubby little flanks and thinking, I have got away with it again.

COOPER: You think he was a complete fraud, really?

HITCHENS: Yes.

[Charlotteman]

I agree with the folks that think it's incongruent to say nice things about a horrible dead person, simply because he's dead.

To have been such a prominent individual, to have commanded so much publicity, to have wielded the influence he did---but I cannot think of one single positive thing he did in his life. A sad life was Falwell's.........and he brought his misery on the rest of us by preaching hate and intolerance and discord.

Folks it's looking quite dramatic. The original "New Right" movement of the early 1980s is literally dying off. Reagan and Falwell were perhaps the posterboys for the New Right. The other original Reaganites are aged, and won't be around much longer.

Could Falwell's death essentially be the New Right's death as well?

[monsoon]

You're such a douchebag.

I forget I'm dealing with a genius who knows everything about every subject. You have over 16,000 posts on this forum, and the majority of it is political nonsense.

You're an imbecilic blowhard just as much as any other political talking head. The only difference is, outside of Urban Planet and your own personal little world, your opinions mean nothing to anyone. Yet day after day, topic after topic, you know more about the issues than anyone else. /laugh

[Charlotteman]

I haven't been watching all the Falwellian news, so perhaps this has already been brought up. But just in case it hasn't: I'm looking forward to hearing reflections of Falwell from Larry Flynt and Tammy Faye Bakker.

Larry Flynt was perhaps Falwell's #1 nemisis. They periodically sued each other over the years, publically insulted one another for decades, and even appeared before the US Supreme Court as adversaries! In later years, the two actually began doing public debates together, and had even developed a certain tolerance for the other! A totally unlikely friendship.....will be interesting to hear Flynt's reflections on Falwell and his relationship with him.

And the other is Tammy Faye Bakker, who at one time probably hated Falwell more than the rest of us combined. In the 1980s, reptilian Falwell tricked the Bakkers into incriminating themselves on paper and thus they lost their theme park etc. Tammy Faye Bakker experienced a severe depression afterwards, and her hatred for Falwell was public knowledge. Even though I understand in later years she forgave Falwell. 1% of Tammy is more loving and empathetic than 100% of Falwell.

Those two certainly must have interesting perceptions of Falwell.

I have to say, even in recent years, my personal hatred for Falwell had waned. I guess we all soften up with age-hehheee

[nowensone]

Folks it's looking quite dramatic. The original "New Right" movement of the early 1980s is literally dying off. Reagan and Falwell were perhaps the posterboys for the New Right. The other original Reaganites are aged, and won't be around much longer.

Could Falwell's death essentially be the New Right's death as well?