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SuperMan11MS

By SuperMan11MS
in Orlando Coffee House

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SuperMan11MS Unincorporated Area

SuperMan11MS

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With the excitement of the Devil Rays being in town this week, I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss if/when/where you think a MLB team should be in Orlando. Can Orlando support a baseball team better than Miami or Tampa Bay? They have been considered many times for baseball expansion, in the early 90's baseball picked Miami and Denver to get a new team, leaving Orlando out. And some have speculated that the Marlins should move to Orlando if they can't get a new stadium in Miami (can they get one here?) Peter Gammon's, ESPN's leading baseball analyst, once stated that the Marlins and Devil Rays should combine and move to Orlando to take advantage of the tourism, the geographic center of the state, and the convention crowd.

On an interesting note that may hint to a future team, Orlando is getting more baseball related events in addition to the Devil Rays series at Disney lately. Just last year, Orlando hosted one of the first rounds of the World Baseball Classic, and this year they will host the Major League Baseball draft, the first ever to be televised. Searching on the internet on this subject, I found a couple of interesting quotes and articles:

"The Orlando metropolitan area is ranked 27th in the continental U.S. in population, according to the 2000 U.S. census. It is the second-largest market without a Major League Baseball team."

- Orlando Sentinel

"The Orlando area is now without a full-season team for the first time since 1962. Metro Orlando is the largest television market in the country without professional baseball, and a dozen smaller markets have Major League Baseball franchises...

Planners with the firm Glatting Jackson Kercher Anglin in Orlando evaluated six sites, including the existing Tinker Field, other land around the Citrus Bowl, the current location of Orlando police headquarters, property the city bought several years ago for a new police station and the site that has since been selected for a new Magic arena."

- Orlando Sentinel

"Serious talk has been made on bringing Major League Baseball to Orlando. Current mayor Buddy Dyer said he would like to see it in the future. Orlando was a finalist city in the expansion for the 1993 season. Ironically, they were mentioned as a possible destination for one of the 1993 expansion teams, the Florida Marlins, during that team's investigation of new locations should Miami fail to build them a new baseball stadium."

- Wikipedia

"When asked which city should receive a baseball team if Major League Baseball were to expand the league, one-third (33%) of those who follow baseball say it should expand to Las Vegas, Nev. while 21 percent say it should expand to Charlotte, N.C., Portland, Ore. was the pick for 14 percent, seven percent said the team should go to Orlando, Fla., four percent chose Hartford, Conn. and four percent think Sacramento, Calif. should receive the expansion team. Less than one in five (17%) said they would choose none of these cities."

- Poll Conducted in 2005

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sixoburn Crossroads

sixoburn

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Getting a baseball team would be a terrible idea. First, baseball really isn't big among floridians, or people in general. Every team that has a large following (Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees) has been in the city for a hundred years, and there is a population that grows up loving the team. I see no reason why orlando would have a much larger following than Tampa or Miami, which routinely have low attendance, especially given our smaller population and fewer hispanics (who tend to like baseball more than the average american).

We don't currently have a stadium to support a major league team, so that would likely cost tax payers hundreds of millions. Also, given the salary-cap structure of baseball, you would need to make sure the owner of the team has no problem outspending most other teams. The easiest way to cultivate a following is to win, and unlike football, where every team is limited in howmuch they can spend, baseball has no such absolute limits.

One thing people don't realize is that many baseball games are during the week in the afternoon. Sure, you can get some tourists and convention people to take in a baseball game, but we don't have a legendary field (like fenway or wrigley) and the same logic should hold true for the orlando magic, yet they don't sell out every game. If we can't get 17,000 for a magic game, how are we getting 60,000 for a baseball game?

The same logic goes through for NHL. That would also be a bad idea for Orlando.

Even though the NFL already has 3 teams in florida and is unlikely to add another, I think Orlando could give very good support to an NFL team. Football is much more popular than baseball in florida, and it is generally much easier to get people to show up to 8 sunday home games than 82 home baseball games.

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SuperMan11MS Unincorporated Area

SuperMan11MS

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Getting a baseball team would be a terrible idea. First, baseball really isn't big among floridians, or people in general. Every team that has a large following (Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees) has been in the city for a hundred years, and there is a population that grows up loving the team. I see no reason why orlando would have a much larger following than Tampa or Miami, which routinely have low attendance, especially given our smaller population and fewer hispanics (who tend to like baseball more than the average american).

We don't currently have a stadium to support a major league team, so that would likely cost tax payers hundreds of millions. Also, given the salary-cap structure of baseball, you would need to make sure the owner of the team has no problem outspending most other teams. The easiest way to cultivate a following is to win, and unlike football, where every team is limited in howmuch they can spend, baseball has no such absolute limits.

One thing people don't realize is that many baseball games are during the week in the afternoon. Sure, you can get some tourists and convention people to take in a baseball game, but we don't have a legendary field (like fenway or wrigley) and the same logic should hold true for the orlando magic, yet they don't sell out every game. If we can't get 17,000 for a magic game, how are we getting 60,000 for a baseball game?

The same logic goes through for NHL. That would also be a bad idea for Orlando.

Even though the NFL already has 3 teams in florida and is unlikely to add another, I think Orlando could give very good support to an NFL team. Football is much more popular than baseball in florida, and it is generally much easier to get people to show up to 8 sunday home games than 82 home baseball games.

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Go Gators Burg

Go Gators

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Baseball isnt big in Florida? Have you any idea of how many amateur leagues/teams/clubs there are in this state? The teams arent big yet because their owners arent willing to spend any money to make them good. Miami is always a bad spot for teams. Put a winning team in St Pete, and people will come.

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facilities man Hamlet

facilities man

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I was in Tampa the past couple days and read the sports writers comments on the games at Disney. They focused on the negativity of only 8,500 or so people showing for the games and many arriving late or leaving early. I think 8,500 for a terrible team who is not our home team is pretty good. Especially considering the prices they charged. They were higher than ticket prices in St. Pete. It seemed like the writers did not want to write the word Orlando, always refering to the games in Buena Vista, or the attempt to grab the Central Florida market, obviously dancing around saying the games were in the Orlando area. The team execs. for the Devil Rays were all about grabbing the Orlando market and making it theirs. They would never let another team into the Orlando market.

One point of competition that the Devil Rays have that no other team deals with is the over abundance of minor league baseball in the Bay area. There are teams in Tampa, Clearwater, Dunedin, Sarasota, and Lakeland. The Devil Rays compete with them for fans with a team that ends up in last place every year. The Devil Rays charge MLB prices for tickets, food and such, and play in a stadium that's not the best for basball. Some of the minor league facilities are fantastic and tickets are usually $5 to $7 dollars. You can take a family of four to a Devils Rays game for about $100.00, or go to a minor league game for about $25.

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bic Burg

bic

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If you break it down, there are two kinds of baseball people-- people who like baseball and people who don't. People who like baseball likely already have a favorite team, and with such a large population of transplants in Florida, that team is likely from a different region. Notherneasterners who moved to Tampa/Orlando are probably already Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, or Mets fans--okay, maybe not Mets fans--and probably aren't going to adopt a fledgling Devil Rays team that is one of the worst clubs in the majors. Being the laughing stock of your sport which plays in a ballpark that lacks character in a less than ideal location also does not breed new fans out of baseball haters.

Before I moved to Boston for college, I hated baseball with a passion. Seriously. But just through ordinary day-to-day living, I was immersed in the culture of the Red Sox (it's reaaaally hard not to be), and quickly began getting involved with liking baseball and the Sox. Now I happen to be a huge fan of the sport and an even bigger fan of the BoSox. I can pretty much guarantee you that I wouldn't be a baseball or Rays fan if I went to school in Tampa instead. The team just lacks the history, star players, success, charismatic ballpark, fan base, rivalries, etc. That can all change with the right management but that's the current state of affairs.

I think being an expansion team in baseball is particularly rough because 1) the new team is likely in a relatively smaller market; 2) residents of that market likely have not had a big history of following baseball; 3) the team is destined to be bad for the first few years; 4) star power doesn't carry you as far in baseball as it does in basketball or football (even if you have Roger Clemens, he only pitches once every 5 days..and the team might still suck. Kobe Bryant can fill a visitor's arena any given night and could almost beat a team by himself); 5) and the team is pressured to fill their gigantic home stadium 81 times a year, sometimes at 1pm on a Tuesday.

It also happens to be extremely difficult for a team in a smaller market like Tampa to compete with teams from enormous markets like New York and Boston, ESPECIALLY being in the same division. The Yankees and Red Sox are willing to through endless amounts of money at players and managers in order to guarantee trips to the postseason year after year. The Blue Jays also happen to have a decent history of successful teams. This is a tough fate for Rays management to accept. They could spend a ton of money to field a good team and still never make it into the postseason because either the Yankees or Red Sox will always win the division, and the wild card could be equally as unattainable. This isn't to say that the Rays shouldn't try, but it makes it especially difficult for fans to get behind the team when they have a losing season year after year.

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bic Burg

bic

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In the NBA, they'd play each other 4 times out of 82 regular season games. In the NFL, it'd be 1-2 games a year max. In MLB, it's possible that the Orlando team would be placed in the NL and would never get to play Tampa except possibly during interleague play or in the World Series. A couple of games a year between two cities that happen to be down the road from each other is not a good enough reason to oversaturate the region with sports teams.

Not to mention that it takes time to develop a rivalry that would warrant sold out stadiums.

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mgsports Whistle-Stop

mgsports

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Don't forget the WNBA back in Orlando and Miami and also a team in Tampa Bay.

MLS back in Miami and Tampa Bay and also a team in Orlando.

Orlando might be getting a Football team in that new League out their.

Kansas City,OK City,Anahiem has been mentioned as places for a NBA team and not even Tampa Bay,St. Louis,San Deigo,Cinnatti,Jacksonville and so on.

Theirs other Cities on the list for NHL team like KC,Las Vegas,Houston,Portland,Seattle,OK City and probley New Orleans,Charlotte Cleveland,Winnipeg and so on besides Orlando.

Orlando has the roads,transportation,OIA,Places to East/Sleep/Shop and Attractions in place for an MLB/NFL and NHL team.

All they have to do is move the fence back at Cracker Jack Stadium and put a retractable Roof on it for a MLB team.

For an NFL and MLS team they can use the UCF Knights current home.

For an NHL team they can use the arena the Magic and Predators play in.

Also then you would get a local team to watch on CBS and not have to miss either the Dolphins or Jagurs because CBS wouldn't have to pick which team you get to watch in Orlando.

The Marlins are trying to get a new Stadium and Tampa Bay lease isn't up yet.

Theirs a slim chance the Magic could still move to KC.

They would also play each other in Spring Traning.

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RestedTraveler Metropolis

RestedTraveler

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On a serious note...what happened to the news from August 4, 2006 (one year ago today) that George Stuart and partners were looking to purchase the Southern League Class AA team, the West Tennessee Diamond Jaxx and reolocate them to Orlando. As I recall, the discussion was that a new downtown ballpark was part of the plan to relocate the team. Did that fall through or is it something that's still in the works? Anybody know?

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mgsports Whistle-Stop

mgsports

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Peter Gammons said on ESPN Radio yesterday that he would like to see the Devil Rays between Orlando and Tampa Bay and the Marlins some where in Florida.

You won't see the Marlins in San Antonio or las Vegas or even Northern Virgina because the Mets/Yankees and Phillies don't want them their or even Charlotte but you would see them play where the NFL Panthers play.

How about New Orleans? P.Rico? Hawaii? Monterrey,Mexico?

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bic Burg

bic

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On today's PTI, Wilbon and Tony discussed last night's dismal attendance at the Marlins game. Less than 400 people were on-hand to witness the Fish beat the Nationals and attendance for the entire series was only about 3,000. The PTI guys said the Marlins and Devil Rays should be contracted and there shouldn't be a an MLB team in the state of Florida because apparently Floridians don't care enough about their teams to support them (even with the Marlins winning the World Series twice in recent memory).

You know, with all of this talk of Florida not being a good place for pro baseball, the Marlins possibly leaving, the crappy stadiums in Tampa and Miami, and poor attendance, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to move one of the teams out of state and build a proper baseball stadium in Orlando for the other. Have one team for the entire state in a centralized location (i.e. Orlando) and rebrand the team-- new name, uniforms, management, etc. I honestly don't see baseball being a huge success in Florida in general but this could be a decent last hurrah to try and keep the league alive in the state. Although Orlando might not have the local population base that Miami or Tampa Bay have to work with, a team here might be able to lure a lot of tourists with the right advertising, and we've already seen that the city's huge population of Puerto Ricans are willing to support their hometown sports heroes.......and you don't have to be a sports nut to know that there are a lot of hispanic baseball players. Build a beautiful stadium (no dome-- removable roof at the most) in a good location and it just might work.

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Julez Unincorporated Area

Julez

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I went to the the Marlins game where there was less than 300 people, it was really pathetic but you have to look at the facts, the sun was blazing and the team has been doing horrible in the last month. When the game started there were thousands of people but after the rain delay nobody came back it was very sad. But the team has had a spike in attendance this year from last year, its just that the last couple of games the Marlins have really been miserable and the Florida fans as we all know are not the best.

But I must say the possibility of the Marlins leaving Miami is basically non-existent now. The MLB was down here a couple of months ago and re-assuring that the City, County and Marlins are all really close to getting the Stadium, they're missing 30 million and now that the Canes are leaving the Orange Bowl the City can give them 80 million they had reserved for renovations for the Orange Bowl but now that the OB's life is coming to an end the Stadium is gonna most probaly be demolished and make way for the Marlins Stadium. And there still is the possibility of the Downtown site.

And the idea about moving one team and leaving the other staying in Orlando has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas Ive heard. If a team hasn't been able to succeed in either Tampa or Miami why in the world would it work in a smaller market than either of them and with similiar demographics as Tampa. The whole Puerto Ricans and baseball thing hasnt worked in Miami, Miami has the Cubans, Ricans, Venezuelans and Dominicans and they still cant get the attendance they would want.

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Go Gators Burg

Go Gators

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And the idea about moving one team and leaving the other staying in Orlando has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas Ive heard. If a team hasn't been able to succeed in either Tampa or Miami why in the world would it work in a smaller market than either of them and with similiar demographics as Tampa. The whole Puerto Ricans and baseball thing hasnt worked in Miami, Miami has the Cubans, Ricans, Venezuelans and Dominicans and they still cant get the attendance they would want.
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mgsports Whistle-Stop

mgsports

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All they have to do to Cracker Jack Stadium is move Fences back and build a Retrackable Roof for a MLB team-It would save Orlando from builiding a whole new Stadium or even a Dome. The Citrus Bowl can be for a NFL/MLS team.

Then the Miami Panthers,Gainsville Gators-Florida and Tallahassee Seminoles-Florida State.

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