President Carter speaks out against Bush

[monsoon]

Ok, let me rephrase, Nixon was far worse than Bush, and I think it was relatively un-classy for one unpopular (at the time) president to comment on another president's performance. Let's all remember that Bush had the highest approval rating of any president EVER in fall 2001, and though he still held all the same beliefs and general policies then, it wasn't popular to be critical then. This seems to be a cheap shot from an otherwise decent man.

[Charlotteman]

Up until about a year ago I thought Nixon was the worst pres in my lifetime. I have come to realize Bush is the worst pres in history. Even Nixon looks good in comparison.

[satalac]

There are people here who think President Carter is irrelevent???????????

Tell the thousands of people who have bought and read Jimmy Carter's books that he's irrelevent. How many has he written......30?

Tell the Nobel committee in Sweden that Pres. Carter is irrelevent.

What about telling all the colleges and universities and international organizations that have awarded him countless honors that he is irrelevent.

If President Carter is so irrelevent, why did the Bush administration react so swiftly to his comments? If he is irrelevent, why would they waste their time making public rebutals to his comments?

President Carter is relevent. He is relevent to today's issues. He is a man that deserves respect, something the current president does not deserve.

If a former president is irrelevent, it is George H.W. Bush, who apparently can't even reel his son in.

[Charlotteman]

Oh I don't think we're hanging on Jimmy Carter's every word~~

But when someone with the worldwide respect of Pres. Carter says something of this magnitude, it matters. I happen to be happy that Pres. Carter is speaking out about the same issues I'm concerned over. Of course we're going to be happy when he speaks out against Bush.

btw it would be interesting to know how many books Carter has sold in his life. (I was just guessing it was in the thousands) One thing I know is that his last book Peace or Aparteid was on the NYT Best Sellers list.

[Gusterfell]

^Carter does have worldwide respect. That alone is enough to make him irrelevent in the eyes of the Bush administration.

[monsoon]

yes, i do think that carter is irrelevant. is he a good humanitarian? of course. but seriously, what influence does he have now? ....

[satalac]

As a living ex-President of the United States he has huge influence in shaping opinion on matters and is a resource that GW Bush choses to ignore when Carter's help could go a long way to restoring Bush's battered reputation in world affairs.

Let's keep in mind that Carter, under the Clinton Administration, brokered a deal with N. Korea that kept nuclear weapons out of that country. Bush came in, called N. Korea part of the axis of evil, threw out the treaty, and N. Korea went on to develop the bomb. Now Bush as basically reverted back to the Carter treaty after this failure.

If Carter wasn't relevant, he would not be under discussion on the National news tonight.

[Charlotteman]

It should also be remembered that Jimmy Carter is but one of a multitude of prominent people who have said GWB is the worst pres.

Was it big public news/discussion when Donald Trump publically said the very same thing? No, because Trump doesn't have the stature and impecible reputation that Pres. Carter has.

That's what makes this such a profound thing. Ex presidents just don't say these things about each other. That shows how dire Carter must think the current situation is, to break that unwritten agreement between ex presidents. It's a reason to take heed to his comments, and not dismiss him by calling him irrelevent.

[satalac]

It should also be remembered that Jimmy Carter is but one of a multitude of prominent people who have said GWB is the worst pres.

Was it big public news/discussion when Donald Trump publically said the very same thing? No, because Trump doesn't have the stature and impecible reputation that Pres. Carter has.

That's what makes this such a profound thing. Ex presidents just don't say these things about each other. That shows how dire Carter must think the current situation is, to break that unwritten agreement between ex presidents. It's a reason to take heed to his comments, and not dismiss him by calling him irrelevent.

[monsoon]

trump is a media whore. he get publicity by saying things like this, so of course the media does go crazy over it. it's just another day in trump land.

[satalac]

Is your defense to dismiss every successful person that criticizes Bush? Nobody is going to buy that here. You may dismiss Carter, but you really haven't given any reason except this is your opinion. And while you are free to have your opinion on this matter, you don't do yourself any credit by calling people whores, irrelevant, etc when they obviously are not.

[BrandonTO416]

Jimmy Carter will go down in history as being a far better president than he was considered at the time of his presidency.

Looking back on the factual statistics, Carter led the nation strongly in foreign policy. He should have gotten full credit for the release of the Iran hostages as they were released in the very first week of the Reagan presidency.

Besides, the economic statistics are far more gray than the black and white picture the pundits of the Reagan era allow for.

In the 4 short years that Carter presided over the nation, there were over 10 million net newer jobs created vs. when he came into office. And this is a time when the US population was closer to 200 million as opposed to the 300 million we have today, so it was a far higher percent than the job creation we have going on today.

He INHERITED oil shocks that were well outside the control of his own making. This is a DIRECT CAUSE of the runaway inflation that he was bashed for.

Carter actually responded to the oil shocks with the best, most sound, and economically viable energy policy ever made. His administration basically made CAFE standards effective and raised the efficiency of automobiles over approx. 10 mpg, much of which came from policy implemented after he was out of office.

If it weren't for his advances (which we've not seen much advances since his time) we would be far worse off today.

History is on Carter's side, even if the neo-cons still hate the man with a vicious mania. Rational people realize he's a great man, was a great leader, and did the best job of his day.

Needless to say I'm glad to hear him speaking out on Bush. Bush is a failure and everyone knows it unless you are a die hard Bush supporter, and that number is well under 30%.

[monsoon]

so what is your excuse when you are speaking of people on the other side? and what makes your opinion more right than mine? bascially the point that i've been trying to get at is who are we to decide on who is relevant and who isn't?

[Captain Worley]

Carter actually responded to the oil shocks with the best, most sound, and economically viable energy policy ever made. His administration basically made CAFE standards effective and raised the efficiency of automobiles over approx. 10 mpg, much of which came from policy implemented after he was out of office.

[monsoon]

Big SUVs showed up when gasoline got to 65 cents/gallon in 1986. It didn't have anything to do with CAFE except for the big loophole that was established that excluded SUVs and Trucks from these standards.

[satalac]

I will debate any particular issue that might have in defense of GW Bush and I will tell you very specific things that he has done to earn my disgust. Likewise, I have said, in this thread, why I like Carter. In both cases you have not offered up anything but insults against Carter and you don't like the fact that he criticized Bush. Beyond that you have not offered up anything. Calling Trump a whore is irrelevant.

[monsoon]

i have not offered any insults to carter whatsoever. and if you had actually read my first post i actually agreed with what carter said. and calling trump a media whore was relevant to the comment i was replying to. to compare carter with trump is like apple to oranges. please, go back and read my posts before ignorantly commenting on mine.

[satalac]

You are absolutely correct as I misread your comments. I withdraw my criticism.

[Gusterfell]

Relevent or not, when was the last time anyone with Carter's stature (or even Trump's) said anything in praise of Bush? These public figures certainly have connections and access to information that you and I don't, and their consensus certainly seems to be that Bush is a complete failure as a president.

[Captain Worley]

Big SUVs showed up when gasoline got to 65 cents/gallon in 1986. It didn't have anything to do with CAFE except for the big loophole that was established that excluded SUVs and Trucks from these standards.

[satalac]

Relevent or not, when was the last time anyone with Carter's stature (or even Trump's) said anything in praise of Bush? These public figures certainly have connections and access to information that you and I don't, and their consensus certainly seems to be that Bush is a complete failure as a president.

[Charlotteman]

Wow it looks as though someone is actually standing up for Bush against Carter!

Mike Huckelbee, one of those dour/sinister unknowns running for the 2008 Rep nomination, is cancelling his appearance at a Baptist gathering organized by Pres. Carter in protest of Jimmy's comments.

Is Gov. Huckelbee the only one to stand up for Bush on this Carter controversy so far? I can't remember anyone else (outside the White House) standing up for him.

Oh yeah Pres. and Mrs. Carter have been in Louisiana helping with Habitat for Humanity's 1000th home. How many homeless people do ya'll suppose Bush and Huckelbee and their ilk have helped lately????

[BrandonTO416]

Carter's Energy policy is not the cause of SUV mania of the 1990's going forward. Carter's policies created an average fuel efficiency that was 10 mpg more than we had, and we've began to backtrack from it.

As stated above, cheap oil after the oil shocks were over is the cause of the SUV craze.

The oil shocks weren't caused by a United States Presidential administration. Its not Carter's fault, its not Nixon's fault, its not Johnson's fault. It happened because of underlying cultural divisions mixed with decades of ideological differences and foreign policy that can't be blamed on an individual.

The truth is, Carter is as responsible for the low prices in the 1980's as Reagan. The reason is pretty simple. Carter was the first US administration that showed the US can be serious when it comes to conservation and alternative energy, and Carter didn't talk the talk he put things into action.

The Saudi's and OPEC got so scared that the US would stop buying oil via conservation and alternative energy that they dropped oil prices radically and bottomed out below the value of what oil should have been at. The reason why? They wanted us to be hooked on their oil, and ultimately their plan worked. We got lax in the 1990's and started buying vehicles that require more oil and thus more imports.

Carter's energy policy had more to do with the efficiency of the 1980's and the reaction from OPEC than anything Reagan ever did. Bottom line is that OPEC can be scared sh!tless when they see the US become a leader and show that we can really do things like conservation and alternative energy. And the last time our nation was serious about it, we scared them so crapless they dropped oil to below market rates for a decade to keep us hooked on cheap oil.

Reagan was credited with a lot of things he never did, only because he's a great actor and can smile anyone into believing whatever he wanted. Neo-cons are con men. Its the modern conservative movement, nothing more than one con job.

All I can hear from conservatives is whining and moaning that Carter was a socialist for his "big government" policies. They forget Carter single handedly protested the Moscow olympics and Democratic administrations from the beginning of the communist movement have stood toe to toe against that radical ideology. Its clear to me as a proud liberal American that conservatives are more interested in fighting fellow Americans who disagree with them than the enemy.

So who cares if they hate Carter? He was a damn good president and he's a damn good ex-president.

And since this discussion started about Carter's discussion on Bush's failures, it demonstrates the difference between people like me and the radical right conservative movement. People like me are arguing that Bush's policy has damaged American foreign policy not out of a vile hatred for the person, we see the Iraq war as a group of lies to further Bush's personal aspirations - not the national interest for security.

Conservatives hate Carter on a personal level.

People like me and Carter, and millions like us, can't stand Bush for starting a war against a nation that did NOT ATTACK the United States and had no means to attack. And this war has cost us lives, money, and corruption we can't take any longer.

Terrorism does not equal Iraq, and Iraq was not a terrorist haven until we destabilized it. For crying out loud, Bush CREATED a terrorist haven and we have more terrorism now. Do I think Bush INTENDED on creating a terrorist state? NO. I think he's too inept at policy to understand why what happened has happened, because he obviously hasn't learned from his mistake.

This debate is almost getting insane if anyone remotely agrees with Bush's Iraq screwup. Bush may have done some things halfway right, like the Medicare drug plan and at least some money going to HIV drugs in Africa, but Iraq is the biggest screwup in modern history.

That's not vile hatred, its defending what we believe is right. Bush has GOT TO GO.

Just because we hate Bush doesn't mean we hate America.

Just because we want better fuel efficiency and some alternative energy standards doesn't make us socialist.

Just because we want equal rights for everyone doesn't make us a bunch of hippies dancing in the street.

Conservatives MAKE ME SICK.

[Charlotteman]

Heckles you have presented facts which are highly pertinent to this discussion.

Conservatives belittled Pres. Carter, even though he was the first modern conservative president, and actually started governmental cut-backs before Reagan did.

Pres. Carter's energy policies were superb for the time. Nothing about any of Bush's policies could ever be called superb.

[Panamaniac]

First of all, I agree with everything Carter said about the Bush administration. Having said that, I should also point out that Carter is generally considered one of the lesser presidents. Among his negatives is the fact that - under his command - the military was unable to free our citizens in a failed rescue attempt during The Iran Hostage Crisis. It is, in fact, this failure that sealed his doom in his re-election bid against Reagan. He is also responsible - particularly in the view of those on the right - for the so-called "giveaway" of the Panama Canal.

While Carter may be among the lesser presidents, history will ultimately judge him head and shoulders above the current incarnation...