What does $4 gas mean to Charlotte

[ChiefJoJo]

Well actually Plaza Midwood is a suburb in terms of needing an automobile to get around. Sure it's got character, but its an auto suburb just like the vinyl house developments being approved by the city these days.

There are very few places that one could live in Charlotte and possibly not have an automobile and not be very inconvenienced. I think the better question is how much driving do you have to do to get to work, school, and other places on a daily basis.

[MZT]

Moving one's family, boxing furniture, downsizing, changing schools, changing addresses, is a hassle. It's easier to trade in the gas guzzler and get a more efficient car. The evolution to denser cities will take time.

[Spartan]

I know that personally, it will probably mean fewer short trips out- more trip chaining. I might take fewer trips back to Spartanburg though. I'm fortunate that I can walk or take the bus to work, which I will do regargless of gas prices.

2) How many people work uptown vs. how many live uptown?

[Spartan]

I was told that about 60% of people who live Uptown also live there. The other 40% are reverse commuters. Those percentages are approximate, and I dont know what the actualy # of people are. I think I've seen 10,000 floated on UP before? I have no idea if thats accurate.

[Nostyle]

Is the 4 bus not running anymore? Assuming it is, most of Plaza Midwood would be with a halfmile (~10 minute) walk of a bus line (#4 and #9). Thats pretty good service, as long as you're going to Uptown.

[monsoon]

....

Part of the problem is that the system relies on the hub-and-spoke route design. If you could avoid going to the Uptown transit center by having several other transfer centers around town, it would make travelling from suburb to suburb much, much easier.

[krazeeboi]

As we speak, I'm looking at getting another job that is closer to my residence. But the price of gas is only one factor in that equation.

[Nostyle]

In addition, I didn't say that bus service was unavailable, but that neighborhoods like Plaza Midwood, which is basically single family homes on lots, are not setup to be convenient for public transportation. 1/2 mile walk to a bus stop with unpredictable times, isn't something someone is going to do much of in that neighborhood, they are going to own a car.

[Miesian Corners]

Ask and you shall receive.

Sperling's 10 hardest-hit metro areas (by gas prices rising)

It's an imperfect measure, to be sure, but you'll see that Charlotte and the Triangle are both in the top ten for hardest hit. The inclusion of DC is strange, though- there are a lot of commute options in the DC area.

As for fuel costs killing transit agencies, this is true for the rural demand responsive agencies. Fuel price increases crush those small agencies' already meager budgets. Cities with largely electrified rail systems mostly shrug. Transit systems that have more diesel rail (VRE, Metra in Chicago) are not hurt as badly as bus-only agencies because of the economies of scale of rail. Bus-only agencies can go either way. If they attract new passengers faster than prices escalate, they are in good shape. If they have costs escalate faster than ridership growth, they are in trouble.

[uptownliving]

Yes exactly. There are a few crosstown routes, but basically if you want to go anywhere in this city on a bus, you are going to have to go downtown first. It's a basic design flaw in CATS philosophy on transit in this city. Charlotte sprawls over 300 miles and the transit planners need to give up on this hub and spoke system and go for the idea of transit nodes which are used in cities with better transit systems. Downtown needs to be a destination, not a choke point for all transit.

[KCtoQC]

I think $4 for gas will have a tremendous impact on Charlotte and its surrounding areas such as Mooresville, Huntersville, and Concord to name a few. The only place to truly walk to work or other places is if you live downtown. For those that live in the other cities it's going to affect them greatly. Gas prices have already sky rocketed since the beginning of spring. Personally America needs to find a new source for fuel that is inexpensive and enviornment friendly and until we do that, prices are going to continue to go up.

[Pathmaker]

The Charlotte-Mecklenburg GIS says that 10,449 people live within 1 mile of Trade & Tryon based on 2005 data. That radius includes some areas outside of the 277 loop, but I'd say the 10,000 figure is pretty accurate. 2012 forecast is 12,685.

[mjfhokie]

I will be moving to Charlotte in a couple weeks and I chose to live in Uptown mostly so I could walk to work. I have a car the requires premium gas and I'm so glad I decided to get a place there based solely on the factor of gas prices. I am spending a bit more on rent but I figure that the cost of gas and parking per month even it out. If I enjoy walking to work (as well as just living in Uptown) over the coming year, I don't any way I would leave living there.

Also, I studied in Switzerland for 4 months and mass transit was the only option for me, and I loved it. Now I know the US is so far off and probably will never have a system like that, but with Charlotte building the light rail, I really hope people give it a fair chance. I'll definitely use it when it comes.

Thanks.

[sax184]

The fascinating calculation to make with a spreadsheet works like this, feel free to construct your own.

1. Find an employment center on a map.

2. Find a residential neighborhood within that city or a suburb X miles away from the employment center. Calculate the daily roundtrip commuting miles by car. Multiply by 250 to get the miles per year driven commuting. Divide by 22 or so for average fuel economy to get gallons of gas purchased for commuting each year. Multiply by a per-gallon price to estimate annual fuel costs.

3. Find the median home price in that residential neighborhood. Use web-based tools to guestimate an average 30-year fixed mortgage payment for a house at that median price.

4. Move out to a further-away residential location, and repeat steps 2 and 3.

Now- in many cases, the further location from the employment center will have lower residential property prices. (i.e. drive til you qualify) So the question becomes, at what PRICE PER GALLON does the cost savings of driving until you can afford a home disappear as driving becomes more expensive?

Happy calculating.

[MZT]

I went through my own maintenance records a few months ago, and concluded that gas, oil, belts, filters, brakes, etc cost around 12

[Raintree21]

Yes exactly. There are a few crosstown routes, but basically if you want to go anywhere in this city on a bus, you are going to have to go downtown first. It's a basic design flaw in CATS philosophy on transit in this city. Charlotte sprawls over 300 miles and the transit planners need to give up on this hub and spoke system and go for the idea of transit nodes which are used in cities with better transit systems. Downtown needs to be a destination, not a choke point for all transit.

[MZT]

I agree, we may be beating on a straw man, here. CATS is showing more interest in hubs now.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Please, $4 gas will not change anything. I was paying $3.50 - 3.75 per gallon after Hurricane Katrina and nobody changed their driving habits, they just paid more money and complained about it. Even at $5 people will still just deal with it. "I need to drive to work. I need to buy food for my family." etc... The price of gasoline would need to at least double to $8+ before anything is actually done about it.

[ChiefJoJo]

Yes, traveling to the Uptown Transit Center and transferring may not fit everyone's needs (for crosstown trips), but there are limits to what can be done, even with CATS sizeable budget (a beneficiary of the transit tax). Compromises must be made based on the best use of vehicles and corridors... I know routes are adjusted on an ongoing basis. The fact remains buses provide service primarily for work trips and 1/2 of the region's office space is located Uptown, so that's by far the most logical place to send the majority of the routes. Also, I'm fairly sure that most larger transit systems use the hub and spoke with transfer method for crosstown trips as well. For the most part, it's tried and true.

[wheatie]

I can say that $4/gallon was the tipping point for me. I moved to Vancouver, BC last year and our gas prices are now well above the $4 mark. We think about gas every time we hop in the car. I now take transit everywhere I go and only use the car when I have to. We have a Mazda 3 and it costs us $55 per fill up. If I were driving the 4runner I had when I lived in Charlotte, I would be paying ~$100 for 1 tank of gas.

Some people may well pay $4/gallon, but I can assure you that many would change their habits if they have the option. The option is to have a great transit system. Vancouver has it, and Charlotte needs it.

[wheatie]

Also, I'm fairly sure that most larger transit systems use the hub and spoke with transfer method for crosstown trips as well. For the most part, it's tried and true.

[monsoon]

.... Also, I'm fairly sure that most larger transit systems use the hub and spoke with transfer method for crosstown trips as well. For the most part, it's tried and true.

[Neo]

I have changed a lot of my *un-green* ways in the last year, one was moving MUCH closer to work which cut my commute down from 32 miles from my primary residence to 4 miles. A lot of factors went into play, but when choosing our new home the then $3 gas fueled the fire of being close to work. When you multiply the price per gallon times such a long distance it certainly makes you change your lifestyle in a drastic way. I can only assume that as gas gets even more expensive that we will likely see people shifting locations to be closer to ameneties and their place of work. In the future the far suburbs may only be for those who work from home, are retired, or work at one of the local businesses in their city. In 10 or 15 years there may be very few driving from Monroe to work in Charlotte for example.

[uptownliving]

The best are built on the rule of the triangles.

[Larryfla]

If gas reaches the $4.00 level, I think that support for light rail will elevate. This increase in price would have an affect on various people in different ways. Fortunately for me, I have a pretty good income and will not be affected quite as adversely as many others. Nevertheless, I will drive my most economical car to work instead of the other (small car also). I will definately not buy the travel trailor that I was considering. I used to have one and drove to Minnesota, Montreal, Boston, Charlotte and back home in the summers. Not likely to happen now. Living in Florida, my fishing trips will not be as frequent nor as far off-shore as now. I often go out 20 to 30 miles. I will now limit my trips to a spot 11 miles out. I will use my pick-up (F250) only for transporting my boat. If I had access to light rail here in Florida, I would use it. I lived in London for many years. I didn't own a car for most of the time because of the hastle of parking, high taxes, and vandalism. But, like most of Europe, there is a rail system to take anywhere without hastle. It is a total different situation in Europe. Yes, most Europeans do enjoy car trips, but most of them are not as far as our trips, and most importantly, their cars are normally more economical. Oddly enough, there seems to be more and more SUVs in London every year. Last summer, I traveled throughout Ireland. My rental car got close to sixty miles per gallon. It wasn't a large car and only two passengers could ride if luggage was taken. But, I would have no problem driving a small car if one as reliable and economical were available in the U.S. The high cost of gas is much more devistating here in the U.S. than it is in Europe. Mass transit is the only way around it. Good luck with light rail, trolley, etc.