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MadVlad

Dog fighting

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Due to Michael Vick's recent struggles, I had a "nice" conversation with a fellow employee about whether dog-fighting was right or wrong. Now me personally, I don't see how anyone on earth can defend how horrendous dog-fighting is, this guy disagreed. I'd like to hear from anyone that can defend this type of nonsense, because the guy I was talking to failed horribly to justify this act.

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Its nothing but cruelty to animals. There are no excuses. I get worked up just hearing about these things on the news. Some people just dont value life.

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His logic was that these dogs are bred for it, so since it's ok to breed them, it's ok to fight them, because that's their purpose. I called shenanigans on all that nonsense. He was brought up in a very urban environment where dog-fighting is common, and I wasn't, so I can see where the discrepancy in opinion could come from, but not the flawed logic behind it....

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His logic is completely wrong Pit Bulls were not bred to fight they were bred to kill rats to help prevent the spreed of the black plague also they were used to protect farmers from being gored by bulls. And as for people using these great animals to fight I beleive that they should be jailed for animal cruelty.

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I own a pit bull, and there is no way I could imagine letting her fight......she is the sweetest, laziest dog in the world who wants nothing more than to be fed and petted.

She was not bred to fight, she was bred to be a family member.

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Dog fighting is cruelty to animals at its worst. It's especially bad when the trained dogs go and kill random, innocent dogs because the aggressive nature is pushed to its limit.

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I also own a Pit Bull and it is the best pet I have ever owned.

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Due to Michael Vick's recent struggles, I had a "nice" conversation with a fellow employee about whether dog-fighting was right or wrong. Now me personally, I don't see how anyone on earth can defend how horrendous dog-fighting is, this guy disagreed. I'd like to hear from anyone that can defend this type of nonsense, because the guy I was talking to failed horribly to justify this act.

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Way to extend a challenge to someone out there!

I am one of those that likes animals at least as much as people, but to be honest I see some gray areas around dog-fighting. To be more precise, I do not think it is right, however I think people are a little biased/hypocritical in the application of disgust over this when it comes to more broad applications of such sentiments. In Texas, big cats (mountain lions) are considered a pest and hunters are free to kill them any time. Wolves are pretty much shoot on sight everywhere. How about veal? The making of Pate? Or bear traps. Animal testing. Bullfighting. General slaughter practices of pigs and cattle which a majority of us eat on a daily basis. Large animals forced into small spaces at zoos. And so on. True, those aren't quite the same as the of breeding dogs to fight/kill, but I don't see it as being terribly different either.

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Way to extend a challenge to someone out there!

I am one of those that likes animals at least as much as people, but to be honest I see some gray areas around dog-fighting. To be more precise, I do not think it is right, however I think people are a little biased/hypocritical in the application of disgust over this when it comes to more broad applications of such sentiments. In Texas, big cats (mountain lions) are considered a pest and hunters are free to kill them any time. Wolves are pretty much shoot on sight everywhere. How about veal? The making of Pate? Or bear traps. Animal testing. Bullfighting. General slaughter practices of pigs and cattle which a majority of us eat on a daily basis. Large animals forced into small spaces at zoos. And so on. True, those aren't quite the same as the of breeding dogs to fight/kill, but I don't see it as being terribly different either.

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Zoos? Usually the big animals have very big spaces, I don't remember the lions in a 10x10 room.

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^^ & ^^^ Really I agree with you, and I do see the differences, I just think they're more subtle than we're being honest about. We can crack down on brutality for the sake of brutality, but most people I know, myself included, are fascinated by watching a pride of lions stalk and kill the gazelles on National Geographic, or the crocodiles tear apart anything that crosses the river. We of course don't think that is wrong as it is simply nature, though the brutality remains. As far as training dogs to do something they are not instinctively created to do, that is not quite right. Left to nature, packs of dogs behave pretty much as wolves do - brutality, fighting and death are the way of life. We have raised them to not fight, for the most part. That said, do not think I am arguing for dog fighting, I am most certainly not.

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Again, they are considered domesticated, which means their nature isn't to just rip anything apart anymore. And survival is different than fighting for the sake of fighting. There is nothing natural about putting 2 dogs in a ring and letting them rip each other apart.

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^^ & ^^^ Really I agree with you, and I do see the differences, I just think they're more subtle than we're being honest about. We can crack down on brutality for the sake of brutality, but most people I know, myself included, are fascinated by watching a pride of lions stalk and kill the gazelles on National Geographic, or the crocodiles tear apart anything that crosses the river. We of course don't think that is wrong as it is simply nature, though the brutality remains. As far as training dogs to do something they are not instinctively created to do, that is not quite right. Left to nature, packs of dogs behave pretty much as wolves do - brutality, fighting and death are the way of life. We have raised them to not fight, for the most part. That said, do not think I am arguing for dog fighting, I am most certainly not.

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^ There is no right and wrong here, and again, you're defining large differences where they are actually small ones. Dogs have been domesticated, but Pit Bulls, for example, have been bred back again to being good at attacking and such things, the mental capacity for such as well. Nature has honed wolves for survival, which includes fighting and killing. Whether or not wolves seek out other wolves to fight is that small difference I am referring to, and at times they do exactly that.

The moral problem here is that the dog's bred and trained to fight have little control in the matter, and that is the point of cruelty. Then again, nature is cruel and often affords little choice or control itself. That issue aside, brutality is clearly an OK thing with humanity, whether it be the pack of wolves, the pride of lions, the crocodiles, or boxers in a ring, or most of our movies and games. I think the real thing that needs examination here is the love of brutality.

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^ There is no right and wrong here, and again, you're defining large differences where they are actually small ones. Dogs have been domesticated, but Pit Bulls, for example, have been bred back again to being good at attacking and such things, the mental capacity for such as well. Nature has honed wolves for survival, which includes fighting and killing. Whether or not wolves seek out other wolves to fight is that small difference I am referring to, and at times they do exactly that.

The moral problem here is that the dog's bred and trained to fight have little control in the matter, and that is the point of cruelty. Then again, nature is cruel and often affords little choice or control itself. That issue aside, brutality is clearly an OK thing with humanity, whether it be the pack of wolves, the pride of lions, the crocodiles, or boxers in a ring, or most of our movies and games. I think the real thing that needs examination here is the love of brutality.

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^ There is no right and wrong here, and again, you're defining large differences where they are actually small ones. Dogs have been domesticated, but Pit Bulls, for example, have been bred back again to being good at attacking and such things, the mental capacity for such as well. Nature has honed wolves for survival, which includes fighting and killing. Whether or not wolves seek out other wolves to fight is that small difference I am referring to, and at times they do exactly that.

The moral problem here is that the dog's bred and trained to fight have little control in the matter, and that is the point of cruelty. Then again, nature is cruel and often affords little choice or control itself. That issue aside, brutality is clearly an OK thing with humanity, whether it be the pack of wolves, the pride of lions, the crocodiles, or boxers in a ring, or most of our movies and games. I think the real thing that needs examination here is the love of brutality.

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I know movies and games are fake, that is why they included in that list of things that society has deemed as "OK" [debatably].

Saying wolves occasionally seek other wolves out for violence is based partially on breeding cycles, and at times simply natural behavior, and I will look this up in more detail, but to turn that back on you, I want you to prove to me that fighting dogs don't enjoy what they are doing.

Yes, I know the rebuttal to that, we have made them that way, but that is partially my point, nature does that too. Having experience with pit bulls, they are usually sweet dogs when raised that way, however if you know anything about them then you know that that sweetness extends only to humans, with other dogs and animals it is a completely different situation, even those whose owners go to lengths to socialize them with other animals (which is usually done by keeping play dates with their litter mates). So no, it is not simply through brutal training, not at all.

In case my original point is getting lost in my playing the devil's advocate here, I am not attempting to justify dog fighting, instead to say to people, you are harping on one thing and ignoring an entire host of other things that stem from similar issues.

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Having experience with pit bulls, they are usually sweet dogs when raised that way, however if you know anything about them then you know that that sweetness extends only to humans, with other dogs and animals it is a completely different situation, even those whose owners go to lengths to socialize them with other animals (which is usually done by keeping play dates with their litter mates). So no, it is not simply through brutal training, not at all.

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I know movies and games are fake, that is why they included in that list of things that society has deemed as "OK" [debatably].

Saying wolves occasionally seek other wolves out for violence is based partially on breeding cycles, and at times simply natural behavior, and I will look this up in more detail, but to turn that back on you, I want you to prove to me that fighting dogs don't enjoy what they are doing.

Yes, I know the rebuttal to that, we have made them that way, but that is partially my point, nature does that too. Having experience with pit bulls, they are usually sweet dogs when raised that way, however if you know anything about them then you know that that sweetness extends only to humans, with other dogs and animals it is a completely different situation, even those whose owners go to lengths to socialize them with other animals (which is usually done by keeping play dates with their litter mates). So no, it is not simply through brutal training, not at all.

In case my original point is getting lost in my playing the devil's advocate here, I am not attempting to justify dog fighting, instead to say to people, you are harping on one thing and ignoring an entire host of other things that stem from similar issues.

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According to the pit-bull heading in Wikipedia, Pit-Bulls were considered nanny-dogs because of their willingness to accept other breeds and even other types of animals when young. Now, I'm not a fan of dogs, so I don't go out of my way to interact with them, but if what you say is true, then I don't see how an animal that would generally attack other animals would be accpeting of other baby animals.

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don't pit bulls make up the highest percentage of dog attacks on humans? i know in my local news - it seems that 90% of the time - a pit bull is the breed responsible for attacks on humans... most often children. i understand that alot of that could be b/c of the way these dogs are raised, but, too often i hear about a loving, family dog pit bull - that out of nowhere - flips on it's owner or someone. unfortunently, i do not think i could be fully comfortable around pits.

as for pitting these dogs against one another... illegal, irresponsible, and ignorant. it also doesn't help the breed status for people who think they are loaded guns. full blooded animals often pass down traits, good and bad - in the form of instincts.

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