Possible retailers to lure downtown from the burbs

[wingbert]

GRDad, you posted this message in another thread...

Suydam, I think I've found our alter ego metro area: Greenville - Mauldin - Easely, SC.

Here's why:

- CSA is about 960,000

- MSA is about 650,000 (about 100,000 short of ours, but close enough)

- Their city population is only 56,000, but only because the city incorporated boundaries are smaller than GR's. Their urbanized area is similar and density is about 2000 people/sq mi (very similar to GR's)

- They are a mid-sized city trying to stand out against powerhouse neighbors of Atlanta and Charlotte, Google Map, like our Detroit and Chicago (except Atlanta and Charlotte are growing like wildflower).

- Their downtown is more of a "boutique" downtown like GR's. A couple of nice hotels, a couple of fairly new condominium projects, several historical districts

- They have two power retail/mall areas now

- No large university downtown, but Clemson Univ. is in the greater metro, and several other smaller colleges, mainly suburban

- They are coincidentally being looked at for a massive lifestyle center/Cabela's development off of I-485.

- Their downtown Main Street (it's actually called Main Street) is more like Hollands than ours. In fact, they used the Main Street program that Holland did and won a national award in 2003.

- They suffered an economic downturn in 2002/03: BLS Jobs Data

- Even more bizarre is that the Greenville subforum is also in the top 5 busiest on UrbanPlanet.

- Big difference obviously is climate and geography (they're more mountainous), but recreation is similar. Their growth is also a little faster than GR's.

- They have a fairly new convention center and a fairly new 16,000 seat arena downtown, all minor league teams. They have a minor league ballpark that was moved from Columbia to downtown Greenville in 2006.

- They have a massive $2.4 Billion "mystery development" being proposed right now.

More links:

Population growth stats

Greenville Wiki

UrbanPlanet - Greenville

Greenville Daily Photo (great idea!)

Greenville Visitors Site

[Rizzo]

What about seeing if The West Michigan Tourist Association could come out from Centerpointe to Downtown? Not so much retail, but would make sense in a central location.

[joeDowntown]

Some places I think would make a good fit downtown:

Artemisia

Daniel's Big and Tall

Andicott

Bella Boutique or Jade (women's fashion)

House This?

EB Games / Gamestop (mentioned before)

Tuttle's

Aunt Candie's / Creative Learning Toys / Mackinaw Kite Co. (everyone needs presents when they go out of town)

Bath and Body Works / Body Shop

and more... I'll be back.

Joe

[gvsusean]

extremely not likely-

WalMart

Costco

Meijer

Target

A certain success-

IKEA

I would like to see a car dealership??

(its crazy but urban dealerships are SWEET)

NikeTown/ Sony store

[CK1]

What about bringing in a retailer that would certainly introduce people to downtown who would never come down otherwise, such as a JCrew, Banana Republic, Ralph Lauren Polo, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn, etc.? Yes, these are all chains, but they would definitely bring awareness to other stores in the area as people walk and drive to / from these well-known establishments.

I look at places like Princeton, NJ, which has both a JCrew and a Banana Republic right on the main drag (Nassau Street, if I recall correctly), surrounded by sole-proprietorships that get a lot of exposure BECAUSE they are next to the big name.

Unfortunately, I think our friendly neighborhood "lifestyle" centers are going to have three legs up on attracting these names vs. downtown.

Another round goes to Sprawl!

Just a fleeting thought that came to mind...how much is being invested in these lifestyle centers? I am assuming well over $100mil a pop. Combine that with all the tax incentive and credits available to reclaiming and redeveloping a block of downtown into a similar retail destination (that $100mil all of the sudden becomes $150mil for the same dollar infusion), and why isn't someone sinking the cash into the core city? You'll have to get in your car to go to these lifestyle centers, and it won't be much farther to drive to downtown than it would be to Walker or Knapps Corner. I can't imagine that a clear-cut apple orchard or corn field is more visually attractive than a riverfront promenade as a destination. Just a thought...

[joeDowntown]

Sean,

I have been thinking the same thing. A Mini Cooper / Vespa dealership would be great in the new Fulton/Division development. Here's a picture of an urban dealer in London. No lot. They basically have all the models on the showroom floor and then you order the car you want (or get it from a lot somewhere out of the city). I saw these in the middle of the Ginza district of Tokyo (the equivalent of Michigan Ave. or 5th Avenue). Very cool, and it made a lot of sense in this day and age of ordering what you want, not what is on the lot.

Joe

I would like to see a car dealership??

(its crazy but urban dealerships are SWEET)

[CK1]

I have been thinking the same thing. A Mini Cooper / Vespa dealership would be great in the new Fulton/Division development. Here's a picture of an urban dealer in London. No lot. They basically have all the models on the showroom floor and then you order the car you want (or get it from a lot somewhere out of the city). I saw these in the middle of the Ginza district of Tokyo (the equivalent of Michigan Ave. or 5th Avenue). Very cool, and it made a lot of sense in this day and age of ordering what you want, not what is on the lot.

Joe

[Timize]

What about bringing in a retailer that would certainly introduce people to downtown who would never come down otherwise, such as a JCrew, Banana Republic, Ralph Lauren Polo, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn, etc.? Yes, these are all chains, but they would definitely bring awareness to other stores in the area as people walk and drive to / from these well-known establishments.

I look at places like Princeton, NJ, which has both a JCrew and a Banana Republic right on the main drag (Nassau Street, if I recall correctly), surrounded by sole-proprietorships that get a lot of exposure BECAUSE they are next to the big name.

Unfortunately, I think our friendly neighborhood "lifestyle" centers are going to have three legs up on attracting these names vs. downtown.

[tamias6]

There was a car dealership in DT eons ago. Can't remember the name though.

[Allison Slater]

Guitar Center, or any other music-specialty store.

I also like that Ryder's idea, but I'm not sure it would fly.

[localtalent]

OK, no more squabbling about kinds of stores. This is a brainstorming session, which means: "no idea is a bad idea"

[Raildudes dad]

There was a car dealership in DT eons ago. Can't remember the name though.

[svs650k3]

I've thought about and have wanted to try a scooter dealership/service center downtown but what would a company like that do in the winter? Motorcycle dealers have atv's and snowmobiles they can sell to keep them busy but there's not much work for a scooter salesman when it's below freezing.

[GRDadof3]

GRDad, you posted this message in another thread...

I haven't had time to look, but what have they managed to lure to their downtown that we don't have?

[AlexPKeaton]

I feel the same way. When Apple announced that they would come to Grand Rapids a couple years ago, I was ecstatic and hopeful they would build a store Downtown, but unfortunately, they chose Woodland Mall for their location. It's amazing how much success they have delt with in the past with stores in the heart of cities such as San Francisco and New York, but they choose an odd location such as Woodland (you don't see that many technology-oriented stores in malls these days unless you happen to be visiting the MoA).

[michaelskis]

The answer to the question of

[Nitro]

Rowden Ford at Bridge & Summer, they moved to SE corner of Jefferson & Cherry and became Bill Pastoor Ford which became Jack Keller on Alpine. Rowe Olds was on the other corner of Jefferson & Cherry (NE). I think they became Dale Baker on the Beltline at Lake Eastbrook. C Bell Chevrolet was on Wealthy 1 block east of Divison. They moved to the present location of High Pointe Center on Alpine. I think there was a Pontiac dealer on State Street. Gezon Motors (sold Studebakers then Ramblers and was the 1st foreign car dealer in GR IIRC VW's ) was on North Monroe in the Western American Mailers building.

[Raildudes dad]

Hupmobile ? Packard

[Nitro]

I'm not THAT old

[mpchicago]

It may not be durable goods, but I think this would be a great addtion to the downtown retail mix. They are about to open a store on 28th and the Beltline.

[Veloise]

"I apologize for the delay. If you go to this site http://www.benfranklin-bg.com/

They have a nice picture; unfortunately there are no people.

Let me know if I can be of further service.

Respectfully,

Earlene Kilpatrick

Director

Main St. Bowling Green" (Ohio)

[wingbert]

Additionally, the ALL HAVE to be open on weekends and operate by mall hours to be competitive. Combining them with other draws into downtown such as the Movie Theater, the Arena, DeVos Place and other similar draws can be a great help. There have been more than a few times that my Fianc

[GRDadof3]

Here's an example: The wife and I are out running a couple of errands on a recent Sunday with the kids in the minivan. It's lunch time. Rather than sprint for home, we decide that it's a nice day so why not find someplace where we can grab a bite and maybe sit outside, walk around, etc. The kids want a hot dog (natch!) so let's stop at Yesterdog. Ooops, it's Sunday and they're closed. So, we won't be spending any time walking around Easttown. Well, we'll just head down to the Dog Pit. Ooops, closed Sunday. Ritz... closed. By this time the kids are going bananas (can I get a hell ya from anyone who has dealt with hungry little kids - they lose all composure). What do we do? One thing's for sure, we don't spend any more time in downtown GR hoping to chance upon someplace that is open. We have to feed these kids. So we drive home and eat lunch there.

The moral of the story - the weather was great, the family was out, but downtown GR was not happening for us. The odd thing was that it was impossible to find a parking space anywhere near the Dog Pit (my wife jumped out to discover whether they were open or not while I double parked) and yet there wasn't a soul to be seen at RPC or walking around or anything. Now I'm sure there was someplace else we could have checked, etc. but the biggest complaint I have is that in a fit of spontaneity we head downtown and we got zilch for it. A worse slogan than "Keep it secret" would be "Downtown GR: Don't come down here without a plan" and yet that is what we experienced. We had a narrow window of opportunity which could have led to an extended amount of time spent downtown and when that window closed, we had to act.

I know it is a bit of chicken and egg (should places be open and hope people start coming downtown or should people start spending more time downtown and therefore places will open up). This is where a national retailer with more ability to absorb some initial slow sales, a more powerful marketing budget to build awareness and an immediately recognizeable brand name and reputation could do wonders in kick starting downtown retail.

[Rizzo]

Is it a concerted effort or just real market challenges? If there is no one to benefit from a lack of retail than I don't think it would be beneficial to keep it from happening.

The whole community needs to be more aware of the possibilities. When I hear of people touting Devos Place bringing GR up a notch I recognize one thing -- they don't act like were up a notch.