The Best CBD

[ainulindale]

What do you thinks can and should be done to improve Pittsburgh's Golden Triangle?

[NewBurgh]

I'm new to this forum, so maybe this is a really dumb question, but what is a CBD?

[ainulindale]

CBD is short for "Central Business District" or downtown area.

[Evergrey]

more tapas; LRT access to Oakland, East End, South Side; dismantle riverfront expressways and return the riverfronts to active use; reconnect a redeveloped Lower Hill/uptown to Downtown; flagship bookstore; more upscale clothing boutiques like Chick; high density development on the few remaining surface lots; do something... ANYTHING... with market square; a mid-sized concert venue catering to national and international pop/rock acts; "urban" full-scale grocer

[ainulindale]

That's specific

Any chance of making downtown bigger than it is? Although we have great density, we're a measley 0.66 square miles.

[ainulindale]

I have a problem with the fact that people clear out of downtown after 5 and restaurants aren't open on weekends. Maybe more apartments, get more people to live downtown would help. I'm not an urban planner so I don't know what would work.

[TheGerbil]

I think the expansion of the T to the North Shore will help to make Downtown feel bigger. The North Shore will become more a part of it, due to the ease of access. Not that it isn't easy to walk across a bridge, but the more options the better. The new development there will also help it to feel more like part of Downtown.

[GeneW]

I have a problem with the fact that people clear out of downtown after 5 and restaurants aren't open on weekends. Maybe more apartments, get more people to live downtown would help. I'm not an urban planner so I don't know what would work.

[nashbill]

I haven't been to downtown in quite a while, but some of the things that you have that other cities would kill for. You have a full size department store (Kaufman's/Macy's), a Saks Fifth Avenue. Some beautiful city parks, Point State, Mellon Square. Some really wonderful architecture, old and new. The rivers. The Cultural district with some real treasures.

I lived in Charlotte for a number of years and they are really moving forward with there CBD population (around 11,000 projected to be 20,000 in a few years) and already have 2 limited grocery stores. There are a number of restaurants and some clubs. But are lacking in any kind of shopping. There is only one small park in the CBD and another larger one a few blocks away which is almost always empty.

I live in Nashville now. A small downtown population. No shopping, unless you want some touristy type crap. There is of course a thriving music scene and the lower Broadway area is filled with honkytonks and restaurants. So evenings are pretty busy in this district.

I guess my point is you already have many things in place that up and coming cities have on there wish list. I think the word is slowly getting out and with more people moving into the CBD and maybe some publicity, who knows..............?

[ainulindale]

I agree, there are a lot of features of Pittsburgh's CBD that are great, but there are so few people who live downtown. But, no one goes there after work and on weekends it becomes a ghost town. We do have a good (but small) cultural district with a symphony, theatres, opera company etc. But everyday stuff just isn't available downtown after work. I really think it would be helpful to connect it to Oakland (Pittsburgh's second biggest BD and college section) via the T. Having light rail/subway service from Oakland would be great as Oakland is awake early in the morning especially on weekends.

[mjcatl2]

Well, there are a few areas for downtown to expand - but what we are talking about is the dense expansion that would make it downtown-like, and not like it is now where you can tell that you have left downtwon.

Bridges aside, the Northside has potential and the N SHore development helps, but the low rise construction is puzzling. It seems to me that it is not utilising prime land to its potential to build 6 story buildings. At least building fewer buildings and make them taller and go from there.

While the Lincoln apartments look ok on the river front, they look like the should be on the river front 10 miles up the river, not in the heart of the city where something like the Encore should be sitting in its place

dismantle riverfront expressways and return the riverfronts to active use

[Evergrey]

There is an 18-story mixed-use tower proposed for the North Shore between the new 10-story hotels.

Many of the things that can make the CBD better are already underway... with the development of thousands of rental and owner-occupied housing units addressing a diversity of incomes and lifestyles... the new PNC tower... redevelopment of Fifth-Forbes... redevelopment of Point Park... redevelopment of Market Square (though I don't think there's a coherent plan for it yet)... increase in restaurants... car-sharing program... Downtown "safety ambassadors"... new hotels... 3 new Crazy Mocha locations... absorption of CBD office space... August Wilson Cultural Center...

[blueblackcat]

Well, there are a few areas for downtown to expand - but what we are talking about is the dense expansion that would make it downtown-like, and not like it is now where you can tell that you have left downtwon.

[tooluther]

I respectfully disagree with a lot of the points that have been raised:

A. Parts of downtown Pittsburgh are absolutely no longer a 9-5 are. Check out Evergrey's pics for example. Also, I spend almost all my time downtown now on Penn Avenue, Sixth, or 7th. I was on Penn at 1:30 on Wednesday after Walk and Dine and it was still very busy. For the record, I'm heading down again tonight to meet friends.

B. Pittsburgh's CBD population is relatively small. However, it is also very small geographically. So the best way to compare is by density. The Golden Triangle is MUCH more dense than most 2nd tier cities. (click here for slightly outdated info on the subject) If you overlaid Uptown Charlotte or downtown Cleveland over Pittsburgh you would be including areas such as the South Side flats for a direct comparison. If you do that we're blow central core population out of the water. (as a disclaimer, I did some of the research on the paper in the link...and I've also spend a lot of time in Uptown Charlotte while in school, so I'm not just blindly defending Pittsburgh)

C. I can personally attest that work on Market Square is in progress.

D. While the BN leaving Smithfield is a bummer, they are rumored to be close to signing a new large tenant for the space...I can't say who it is. Also Piatt Place's retail is going gangbusters, as is the retail in the Piatt's second project Market Square Lofts.

See you downtown!

[ainulindale]

A. Parts of downtown Pittsburgh are absolutely no longer a 9-5 are. Check out Evergrey's pics for example. Also, I spend almost all my time downtown now on Penn Avenue, Sixth, or 7th. I was on Penn at 1:30 on Wednesday after Walk and Dine and it was still very busy. For the record, I'm heading down again tonight to meet friends.

[TheGerbil]

I wish TV shows that are set here would quit taking those pot-shots at the city. The Guardian did it too. But I digress. If they were refering to Oakland then they really were way off. That place is hopping all the time. Granted, in the evening it may be mostly students, not workers. But to say people "clear out" would be misleading.

They probably did mean Downtown. That perception has been around for a long time, and it used to be true. I just wish people in general would notice that it's not so true anymore. Especially if you include places like the Strip in your idea of Downtown. But with all the new residential development I think that perception will fall by the wayside soon.

[ainulindale]

They probably did mean downtown as parts were filmed down there. However (if I remember correctly), the scene was shot in Oakland when they commented on how desolate we are after work. I read the people filming had issues with PFO and didn't want to film here anymore--that might be why they took the cheap shot.

I'm surprised TheGuardian took a shot at the city when David Hollander is from Pittsburgh.

[TheGerbil]

I was surprised too, but it wasn't exactly a pot-shot. This was in an episode about a homosexual teenager who wanted to be adopted. The couple who wanted to adopt him were also homosexual. I am paraphrasing, but basically someone said "that will never happen in Pittsburgh." In other words they indirectly accused the city of being backward in that respect. It bugged me and I didn't know why they felt the need to throw in that line.

Stuff like that makes me vaguely worry any time a show or movie is set here. There is always that chance of them hurting the city's image more than helping, if they throw in pot-shots like that. So easy for a writer to toss in a stereotype or cheap joke, without considering whether it is appropriate or neccesary.

[ainulindale]

I see...not that the city of Pittsburgh harbors any particular hatred for homosexuals, but it is true that Pittsburgh only has 2.8% of the metro population as GLB. That's the lowest in the country for those cities in the top 50 metropolitan areas...even lower than Birmingham Alabama. Interesting that Queer as Folk was set in Pittsburgh! This link is a UCLA study on the numbers of same sex couples by metropolitan area:

http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/...ndGLBpopACS.pdf

Page 14 has an interesting list of the largest 50 metro areas and their corresponding percentages of same sex couples and homosexual percentage by metro.

[TheGerbil]

Yeah, that's why I said the comment wasn't exactly a pot-shot. It had a grain of truth in it. But I would have prefered it if they left that line out.

I'll be interested to see the 2010 census numbers. I'm willing to bet we'll see a decent increase. My own observation is that the GLB community here is increasing in size. But that is just judging by my own eyes and ears. I'd be curious to hear if others have noticed the same?

Now, what did this thread start out as?

[mjcatl2]

How can there be accurate statistics of such demographics? Some data I can see, such as couples, but there can't be accurate data of individuals.

[TheGerbil]

Good point. The census probably only measures couples who live together. That may not be an accurate representation at all.

[NewBurgh]

I agree with Gerbil... I think the gay population has grown significantly, though I have no real way of proving this. Just a sense from the number of gay/lesbian friendly bars and coffee shops opening, and the number of gay people that have moved into Friendship recently.

[TheGerbil]

Since this thread touched on the subject of TV shows, I will post this here. I was watching TV last night and saw a commercial for Back To You, a new sitcom starring Kellsey Grammer. It's about a fictional news station in Pittsburgh, and I have been looking forward to checking it out. But last night's commercial has made me less optimistic.

The scene they showed has Kellsey's character talking to Patrcia Heaton's character about his career. The premise of the show is that he is returning to the Pittsburgh news crew after working elsewhere. In this scene he listed other cities he worked in, and as he does so he holds his hand out flat and raises it a little as he lists the cities (Minneaplois, Denver, LA). Then Patricia's character says "And now you're back" and she grabs his hand and lowers it way down.

Maybe in context this isn't what it appears. But from what I saw, it sure did seem like a big jab at the city. Which leads me to suspect this is just another show that will take the cheap jokes at the city's expense. I'm really getting tired of that. Can't we have one show set here that doesn't go below the belt just for laughs? These jokes are usually uncalled-for and mean, and tend to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the city. I have a feeling that the writers of this show don't know much about Pgh at all, beyond the skyline shot that's displayed behind the news desk. Well at least we get to show off the skyline.

[ainulindale]

I completely agree with you. I saw that clip of Back to You about a month ago on Fox's website and was disturbed. Since the context is news media viewership and Pittsburgh's DMA is around 3 million which is less than Denver, Minneapolis, Dallas, and of course Los Angeles, the joke is factual. However, it did seem as though they were calling Pittsburgh inferior and not just making a joke about Grammar's demotion to a smaller media market. I just don't understand what it takes to get it through to people that Pittsburgh isn't a smoggy steel city anymore. I was watching the U.S. Open a couple weeks ago (which I thought was good publicity overall, especially since the weather was nice) and I just got so sick of how NBC was playing up the whole blue collar steel city image. It was like every time there was a commercial they would show a blast furnice and steel and the announcer would talk about the course being as tough as Pittsburgh steel--just promoting the stereotype. Will we ever be rid of this stigma? Pittsburgh has less manufacturing jobs by percentage than most cities.

Also, Patricia Heaton is from Cleveland so I'm just anticipating some cracks on the expense of Pittsburgh.