Mayor wants to build amphitheater on the Thermal Plant site.

[producer2]

Of course he said that, he has egg all over is face! I should have phrased my statement differently. What he did see from SBER is there "remedy" of the MOU with the Sounds which was what they were asked to do. I think bashing SBER for trying to come wup with a solid plan is counterproductive, they were just doing their job. (Jeeper, I am not saying you bashed them, just in general)

[elguapo731]

Let's move on and SBER can go back to Baltimore. I went by Rolling Mill Hill today and there was not a soul working on it.

I don't know what site you drove by but I took pictures of the site yesterday and there was plenty of activity, as there has been for months. Lots of people, trucks and earth moving machinery

[Richard Lawson]

What this is really about is some council members who are sticking it to the mayor in his final months in office. because they can finally do it without worrying too much about retribution. It's payback for him not really supporting them on some things and the site has gotten caught in the middle. As I've been told, SBER expected that the time period for RFP response would have been 90 to 120 days anyhow, not 45, and apparently had told peoplee in officialdom that 45 wsa too short of a period even for them. Still, one of the amendments that Jameson has proposed would actually allow a developer to come back and propose a ballpark. Addditionally, another amendent would do something unpredecented and have a requirement that it check off on the selection once the RFP process is done and a winner chosen.

[tomcampion]

Let's move on and SBER can go back to Baltimore. I went by Rolling Mill Hill today and there was not a soul working on it.

Just to reduce any possible confusion, Direct Development of Green Bay, Wisconsin, is the developer of the current phase of Rolling Mill Hill (as indicated on the project's website when you click on the "The Team" link), not SBER of Baltimore. I think that SBER has the rights to the land along the river between RMH and the Thermal Site, though. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[elguapo731]

Richard probaly knows but that sounds correct. I remember that Rolling Mill has two developers and SBR got the smaller of the two contracts or something like that, Direct Developement was the restoration experts that the city chose to go with. And that site you mentioned between the two plots of land was under demolishion yesterday.

[elguapo731]

Better yet here is the press release the city issued on the development team for the entire project

ftp://ftp.nashville.gov/web/mdha/News/rmh...pment_teams.pdf

[titanhog]

Here's a question that enters my mind: Since it's widely known that Purcell didn't want a baseball park on the Thermal site, did he and any of the council that opposed the Sounds park do anything to ensure that the deal with the Sounds, metro and SBER fall apart? I know the Sounds are pretty much blamed for this thing not happening, but is that the total truth? Were there stumbling blocks placed in front of these guys that tripped them up? Since it's been stated that Purcell has wanted an amphitheater on that site since 2004...and since it appears the amphitheater drawings were ready to reveal to the public the day after the Sounds deal fell through...is it possible the city was never operating in good faith with the Sounds and SBER? Was it just a matter of time before that deal succumbed to the mortal wounds being inflicted behind the scenes?

[Richard Lawson]

Richard probaly knows but that sounds correct. I remember that Rolling Mill has two developers and SBR got the smaller of the two contracts or something like that, Direct Developement was the restoration experts that the city chose to go with. And that site you mentioned between the two plots of land was under demolishion yesterday.

SBER was one of the other developers selected for Rolling Mill Hill. Direct Development has started on its projects up there. Apparently, about half the units have been pre-sold up there. THe new building being constructed up there is goiing to be two stories taller than planned. If SBER doesn't get selected for the riverfront, I suspect it will back out of the Rolling Mill Hill deal.

[Jeeper12]

Direct Development has started on its projects up there. Apparently, about half the units have been pre-sold up there. THe new building being constructed up there is goiing to be two stories taller than planned.

I don't think that is true. It's my understanding that the activity that you and others have seen there is predevelopment sitework that MDHA had agreed to do on the front end. I don't believe Direct has obtained financing or closed on anything yet. I have also heard that they are now rethinking the big building that they added two floors to because even after accounting for the efficiency that the new floors gave them they still can't make the numbers work.

If all of that is true and Direct walks away or fails to meet the deadlines in the MDHA development agreement I think you may see the entire RMH project get combined with Thermal into a major RFP. That would probably be a good thing for the city IMO.

[Richard Lawson]

I don't think that is true. It's my understanding that the activity that you and others have seen there is predevelopment sitework that MDHA had agreed to do on the front end. I don't believe Direct has obtained financing or closed on anything yet. I have also heard that they are now rethinking the big building that they added two floors to because even after accounting for the efficiency that the new floors gave them they still can't make the numbers work.

If all of that is true and Direct walks away or fails to meet the deadlines in the MDHA development agreement I think you may see the entire RMH project get combined with Thermal into a major RFP. That would probably be a good thing for the city IMO.

That could well be true too. I was passing along what I know to this point. It's not something I've dug into that much lately. I just touched on it recently. RMH has already been through one RFP process. If DD walks, that would be a huge hit to that project after it has been pitched as the next big thing for so long.

[smeagolsfree]

SBER has plans for riverfront townhomes @ Rolling Mill Hill. They were @ the DT home show, but I didnt get to there office. I think they are moving forward with some of there development for this project. Michael Hayes would know for sure.

Hey Michael, can you answer that one for us?

[chris holman]

I had also read that Tony G is interested in this site as well, as well the developer of the Pinnacle Tower.

City Paper

[smeagolsfree]

It will be very interesting to see who wants this site now. A lot has happened since the stadium was first announced. Many new developers have crept into town and interest will be high for the property. I think the best thing they can do is auction the property to the highest bidder with the stipulation that a development has to go on the property within a certain time frame. I spoke to WW recently and told him if the city didn

[hayesmw]

SBER has plans for riverfront townhomes @ Rolling Mill Hill. They were @ the DT home show, but I didnt get to there office. I think they are moving forward with some of there development for this project. Michael Hayes would know for sure.

Hey Michael, can you answer that one for us?

You are correct. In design for townhoses and apts. MDHA is finishing infrastructure soon and will then turn site over to us and Direct for development.

[smeagolsfree]

Thanks Michael for the response.

Is the real delay here on Rolling Mill Hill caused by MDHA doing the infrastructure work? It seems to be taking forever.

[Jeeper12]

Here is an editorial in Monday's CP: http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cf...p;news_id=56848

It sounds like the CP brass caught some political flak from the mayor's office and perhaps some connected lobbyists for their gum shoe reporting last week. Last weeks' articles shed some daylight on an apprent plan by SBER to fast track an RFP through MDHA with a "short fuse" that would give SBER a major advantage in terms of being able to organize a quick response.

This editorial seems to be trying to undue some of the turmoil that their reporter obviously created with his stories by suggesting that notwithstanding the foul odor associated with what had been uncovered, getting something done quickly was probably the most important objective. Just what those trying to move things ahead at warp speed wanted to hear.

[Richard Lawson]

Here is an editorial in Monday's CP: http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cf...p;news_id=56848

It sounds like the CP brass caught some political flak from the mayor's office and perhaps some connected lobbyists for their gum shoe reporting last week. Last weeks' articles shed some daylight on an apprent plan by SBER to fast track an RFP through MDHA with a "short fuse" that would give SBER a major advantage in terms of being able to organize a quick response.

This editorial seems to be trying to undue some of the turmoil that their reporter obviously created with his stories by suggesting that notwithstanding the foul odor associated with what had been uncovered, getting something done quickly was probably the most important objective. Just what those trying to move things ahead at warp speed wanted to hear.

The emails looked like SBER was the one pushing for fast track but it's more on the mayor's end and some council members. Forget what SBER may want, there are council members that want the process started before a new mayor is in place. There is a fear that Clement if elected would just put a for sale sign on the property. SBER and its group can push all they want. But the next council, if one amendment is offered and approved, the council will have final say on whoever is selected by the RFP process. That is very unusual. The only edge SBER would have isn't time but knowledge of the site. Other interested developers, which was really new, I mean what developer wouldn't say he is interested in a fine piece of property, know the site well, too, because it's beein play longer. Another potential edge for SBER is that it already has hotel agreements signed, for what that's worth, but also apparently a national tenant, thus the conversation with the Colliers office in Baltimore.

[Jeeper12]

The emails looked like SBER was the one pushing for fast track but it's more on the mayor's end and some council members. Forget what SBER may want, there are council members that want the process started before a new mayor is in place. There is a fear that Clement if elected would just put a for sale sign on the property. SBER and its group can push all they want. But the next council, if one amendment is offered and approved, the council will have final say on whoever is selected by the RFP process. That is very unusual.

Richard, wouldn't Clement have to get the Council's approval to do that ? Given that reality and the wide open nature of the mayor's race the Clement excuse seems like a very inadequate basis to rush things through. I also question this "last look" approval rights of the new council that everyone seems to be taking so much comfort in having. If MDHA fast tracks an RFP frought with bad assumptions like the secret SBER siteplan offered by the mayor as a siteplan constraint how do we expect to get other capable parties to organize themselves and focus time and attention on an RFP response ? My fear is that any development proposal generated from this flawed approach will only offer the council an up or down vote rather than a genuine opportunity to consider other options or the opinions of the parties that may not end up having the fast track to respond to MDHA's deadlines.

BTW, 45 days is an absolute joke as a timeframe for serious parties to respond to an RFP as complex as this one will presumably be. It will take most of that time just for new groups to study the RFP and determine whether they will even make a response. The teams (developers, architects, engineers, landscape designers) necessary to respond need to study the published RFP criteria and then organize themselves contractually before they can or will expend any effort to begin designing buildings and organizing their proposed uses. It could then take another 2-3 months for the design and cost analysis to be done prior to responding. You may recall that when the RMH RFP came out 2-3 years ago they provided about 60 days for interested parties to simply declare their interest and register their teams.

Given all the questions about what the centerpiece of this project should be it seems to me that city ought to make it absolutely clear that this won't be a rush job, invite interested parties to organize themselves and register their teams with metro. Then the city ought to entertain new proposals for the development of this site and schedule public presentation meetings so the public has the opportunity to see the vision offered by these different parties, debate the merits and then decide how to constrain the RFP. Right now I don't think anybody has a clue how an amphitheatre would work or how it would impact adjacent uses.

Rather than jump from the frying pan (ballpark) into the fire (new RFP quagmire) I think the council should catch it's breath and insist on a more methodical and transparent approach to getting this site redeveloped. I know the mayor and some council persons desperately want this done on their watch but IMO we should be very wary of anybody telling us we have to hurry in order to avoid "missing" some golden opportunity to do something quickly. Better to be sure that we're getting it right for the sake of the city and the impact this decision will be likely to have on Sobro.

[producer2]

I still contend it will be a ballpark. Once Purcell is gone, IMO it will move back in that direction, especially with te current Predators situation.

[Richard Lawson]

Richard, wouldn't Clement have to get the Council's approval to do that ? Given that reality and the wide open nature of the mayor's race the Clement excuse seems like a very inadequate basis to rush things through. I also question this "last look" approval rights of the new council that everyone seems to be taking so much comfort in having. If MDHA fast tracks an RFP frought with bad assumptions like the secret SBER siteplan offered by the mayor as a siteplan constraint how do we expect to get other capable parties to organize themselves and focus time and attention on an RFP response ? My fear is that any development proposal generated from this flawed approach will only offer the council an up or down vote rather than a genuine opportunity to consider other options or the opinions of the parties that may not end up having the fast track to respond to MDHA's deadlines.

BTW, 45 days is an absolute joke as a timeframe for serious parties to respond to an RFP as complex as this one will presumably be. It will take most of that time just for new groups to study the RFP and determine whether they will even make a response. The teams (developers, architects, engineers, landscape designers) necessary to respond need to study the published RFP criteria and then organize themselves contractually before they can or will expend any effort to begin designing buildings and organizing their proposed uses. It could then take another 2-3 months for the design and cost analysis to be done prior to responding. You may recall that when the RMH RFP came out 2-3 years ago they provided about 60 days for interested parties to simply declare their interest and register their teams.

Given all the questions about what the centerpiece of this project should be it seems to me that city ought to make it absolutely clear that this won't be a rush job, invite interested parties to organize themselves and register their teams with metro. Then the city ought to entertain new proposals for the development of this site and schedule public presentation meetings so the public has the opportunity to see the vision offered by these different parties, debate the merits and then decide how to constrain the RFP. Right now I don't think anybody has a clue how an amphitheatre would work or how it would impact adjacent uses.

Rather than jump from the frying pan (ballpark) into the fire (new RFP quagmire) I think the council should catch it's breath and insist on a more methodical and transparent approach to getting this site redeveloped. I know the mayor and some council persons desperately want this done on their watch but IMO we should be very wary of anybody telling us we have to hurry in order to avoid "missing" some golden opportunity to do something quickly. Better to be sure that we're getting it right for the sake of the city and the impact this decision will be likely to have on Sobro.

The RFP won't be 45 days. That was the mayor's push apparently. Even SBER says it would take longer than 45 days. The mayor likes SBER wanted to push them through it appears to me. SBER's site plan was no secret really. All it was was their plan for the ballpark but with an amphitheatre instead of the ballpark. But I don't think SBER is thrilled with the idea of an amphitheatre because of the impact of it on other development. That aside, if you recall the city went through a half assed proposal process and several ideas were brought up. Some viable and some wacky. I don't know. The way this thing is going, the site will sit empty for several more years.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

According to the Wall Street Journal, city parks are getting a big push now to help with pollution. Trees are good for cleaning our air, why not make it a city park? The Sounds obviously do not deserve a ball park, good riddance for all I care. A nice city park would benefit all Nashvillians and outdoor events would suit it just fine. No need for the ampitheater, just a well maintained park with a monument for fallen soldiers, law enforcement etc... from Nashvile.

[smeagolsfree]

With the Thermal site off the table for the new baseball stadium, does this open the door to the proposed amphitheater? My educated guess is yes and I have heard that this will be proposed soon. I think there are a couple of folks on this board who may know a lot of the details and I will let them share if they are ready.

I would hope that both proposals, the Sounds stadium and the Amphitheater will both have mixed use components with them.

[smeagolsfree]

This is an older CP article but has a lot of details in it. This is from a year ago and basiclly there are four groups looking to build an amphitheater in DT Nashville.

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/symphony-one-group-behind-push-riverfront-amphitheater

This may have been posted somewhere on the site but not this thread.

From all indications, I woudl bet that the Sulphur Dell site is the chosen site of the stadium and the thermal site will have construction equipment on it soon for the amphitheater. I just dont know why Metro spends so much money on useless studies when I would bet the Mayor is going to get what he wants and the decission is probably already made.

[smeagolsfree]

This from the NBJ today concerning the Thermal site. If not a stadium, then what.

http://www.bizjourna...or-thermal.html

Mayor Dean is quoted as saying:" he favors a "civic-related" signature attraction that leaves considerable open green space".

[MTSUBlueraider86]

This debate is going on a decade now. It almost made sense for them to have kept the original site and converted it into retail and restaurants with some other mixed uses, but that may not have been feasible