The Failure of Reaganism

[monsoon]

Did any one catch the news that the average 30 year old in this country, for the first time in the United State's history, makes less money than his father on average. This has mostly been attributed to the economics of Reganism that assumes that by concentrating wealth into the hands of a few people, their spending will generate jobs and incomes for those less well off. We have been living with this kind of public policy put forth by government since the middle 80s. There is no longer any such thing as a populist government and it's demise is mostly attributed to Reagan whose watershed event, the firing of every air traffic controller in the United States, was the beginning of this shift in pubic policy. i.e. The corporation is more important than the individual, the community, and society in general.

There has been fabulous wealth generated in the United States since 1980 when Reagan took office, but for this most part, the average citizen has not benefited much from it. People have to work more these days just to keep their heads above water, and they are under constant worries their job is headed overseas or underpaid aliens will be brought in to take their place. It's interesting that most 30 somethings are not old enough to remember the times before Reaganism so they accept what we have now as the standard for the United States.

I wonder if this trend will continue and the children of these 30 somethings will find they are even in worse shape than their parents and of course their grandparents.

[michaelskis]

Did any one catch the news that the average 30 year old in this country, for the first time in the United State's history, makes less money than his father on average. This has mostly been attributed to the economics of Reganism that assumes that by concentrating wealth into the hands of a few people, their spending will generate jobs and incomes for those less well off. We have been living with this kind of public policy put forth by government since the middle 80s. There is no longer any such thing as a populist government and it's demise is mostly attributed to Reagan whose watershed event, the firing of every air traffic controller in the United States, was the beginning of this shift in pubic policy. i.e. The corporation is more important than the individual, the community, and society in general.

There has been fabulous wealth generated in the United States since 1980 when Reagan took office, but for this most part, the average citizen has not benefited much from it. People have to work more these days just to keep their heads above water, and they are under constant worries their job is headed overseas or underpaid aliens will be brought in to take their place. It's interesting that most 30 somethings are not old enough to remember the times before Reaganism so they accept what we have now as the standard for the United States.

I wonder if this trend will continue and the children of these 30 somethings will find they are even in worse shape than their parents and of course their grandparents.

[monsoon]

Yes, you are reading it . This is in my own words.

[michaelskis]

Yes, you are reading it . This is in my own words.

[monsoon]

Can you explain to me how personal debt has anything to do with income?

[michaelskis]

Can you explain to me how personal debt has anything to do with income?

[suburban george3]

Just to give another source of information to this argument, thirty year ago the average 30 year old earned $40K. Today they earn $35K. And the downward trend is continuing. While this article doesn't necessarily point to Reaganism, it does have supporting facts.

MSNBC Article about falling US incomes over generations

[monsoon]

....

Part of the problem is a 30 year old spends the first 5-8 years after college trying to obtain the same lifestyle as their parents have at that time, only it took their parents an additional 25-30 years to achieve it... so they go into enormous amounts of debt to buy things that their parents saved for.

[michaelskis]

Just to give another source of information to this argument, thirty year ago the average 30 year old earned $40K. Today they earn $35K. And the downward trend is continuing. While this article doesn't necessarily point to Reaganism, it does have supporting facts.

MSNBC Article about falling US incomes over generations

[monsoon]

I said it was Reaganism not specifically Reagan himself that was responsible for this demise of middle class America. It is better known by the name supply side economics and the theory was not developed by Reagan, but was embraced by him and his platform when he first ran for office. His opponent, Bush Sr for the 1980 primary referred to it at the time as Voodoo Economics. Despite this, he and his family of course became the standard bearers for this mode of running our economy and have spent decades getting public policy changed to make it a fundamental part of the American economy. Part of his is the moving of public facilities, services and entitlements into private hands.

The effect of almost 3 decades of Reaganism is a middle class that is losing pace with its predecessors. This is unique in American history where every succeeding generation enjoyed a better lifestyle than its ancestors. Now it is the other way around. It should also be noted this is also unique in the world where the middle class still grows. (often by doing work that was once done in America or in countries having a more advanced social policies)

[michaelskis]

I said it was Reaganism not specifically Reagan himself that was responsible for this demise of middle class America. It is better known by the name supply side economics and the theory was not developed by Reagan, but was embraced by him and his platform when he first ran for office. His opponent, Bush Sr for the 1980 primary referred to it at the time as Voodoo Economics. Despite this, he and his family of course became the standard bearers for this mode of running our economy and have spent decades getting public policy changed to make it a fundamental part of the American economy. Part of his is the moving of public facilities, services and entitlements into private hands.

The effect of almost 3 decades of Reaganism is a middle class that is losing pace with its predecessors. This is unique in American history where every succeeding generation enjoyed a better lifestyle than its ancestors. Now it is the other way around. It should also be noted this is also unique in the world where the middle class still grows. (often by doing work that was once done in America or in countries having a more advanced social policies)

[monsoon]

OK, so can you show me statistics that show that Reaganism is responsible?

[michaelskis]

No I am not going to get into the battle of the links. Feel free to look it up yourself if you disagree or want to learn more. The point was put forth by me based on my interpretation on where we are these days compared to 30 years ago.

[Captain Worley]

I'd say I'm in better shape financially now than my dad was when he was my age back in 1982. We both have equal levels of education and jobs. Most of my friends are doin better, some far better than their parents. From my personal experience, I'd say the middle class is larger than it has ever been. I hear a lot of negative attitudes about the economy on the news, but I'd say, as a country, we're in pretty good shape.

I wouldn't have connected it with Reaganomics, but if it is, then I say continue the trend.

[nowensone]

It's a stretch to say we're in pretty good shape, we have lost a great amount of our manufacturing base and continue to do so, and have yet to feel the real effects of that. That is an opinion in a way, but kind of hard to argue it is wrong - a large nation cannot sustain itself on service jobs, construction and farming for ever. I don't like to get all doomsday, I think/hope that the tide of outsourcing will slow and return to our country as our standard of living falls relative to the rest of the world, but the construction industry is one of the main industries keeping the economy afloat now against all that is pulling it down.

As to the question is Reagan to blame, he is certainly responsible for a new trend in out of control federal spending, beyond that it is debatable and whether one finds proof (links) or not, the experts will surely disagree themselves so little to be gained by that.

[monsoon]

I'd say I'm in better shape financially now than my dad was when he was my age back in 1982. We both have equal levels of education and jobs. Most of my friends are doin better, some far better than their parents. From my personal experience, I'd say the middle class is larger than it has ever been. I hear a lot of negative attitudes about the economy on the news, but I'd say, as a country, we're in pretty good shape.

I wouldn't have connected it with Reaganomics, but if it is, then I say continue the trend.

[GaryP]

Reaganism is the economic and public policy supported by the government now as evidenced by the fact that all our laws, tax policy, and employee rights greatly favor the corporation over the individual and even communities. Other industrialize countries don't do this. A good example. When a USA owned mulitnational, with employees all over the world, needs to reduce employment, they will do it in the USA because there are basically no laws to stop it. The work is then picked up in their foreign subsidaries in Canada, Europe and Asia, where more strict labor restriction make it difficult to do so. This is but one example but it is one that would have been unheard of in the USA prior to the 1980s.

[monsoon]

Forgetting that worthwhile jobs are not being created in the USA by multinationals, what is lost in that comparison is that unemployment reporting is not the same in the United States and in Europe. In the USA, benefits last for a short while if you can get them, then they disappear. If you don't have a job you are no longer considered unemployed for statistical reporting purposes. In other words, they don't know about you. The unemployment office tries to compensate for this by doing surveys with census workers but they admit their numbers don't reflect the actual number of unemployed people in this country.

In Germany and Europe, the social system picks of a lot more living expenses for the unemployed and for a much longer time. So while on paper the unemployment rate there seems higher, its because they are reported longer there.

This difference and the failure to understand it is one of the examples of what happens to a society that adopts an economic public policy and keeps it in force for as long as we have had in the United States. Giving corporations the control they have these days in the United States has not benefited the average person in this country.

[Captain Worley]

Individual anecdotes are interesting but really don't have anything to do with the statistics that the current 30 something generation, on average, is making less money than their their predecessors and this is the first time it has happened in American history. Let's keep in mind that "wealth" in the USA continues to rise but ever increasingly so, this wealth is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands and the rest of society suffers.

[Pillsbury]

It's a stretch to say we're in pretty good shape, we have lost a great amount of our manufacturing base and continue to do so, and have yet to feel the real effects of that. That is an opinion in a way, but kind of hard to argue it is wrong - a large nation cannot sustain itself on service jobs, construction and farming for ever. I don't like to get all doomsday, I think/hope that the tide of outsourcing will slow and return to our country as our standard of living falls relative to the rest of the world, but the construction industry is one of the main industries keeping the economy afloat now against all that is pulling it down.

As to the question is Reagan to blame, he is certainly responsible for a new trend in out of control federal spending, beyond that it is debatable and whether one finds proof (links) or not, the experts will surely disagree themselves so little to be gained by that.

[BrandonTO416]

I'd say I'm in better shape financially now than my dad was when he was my age back in 1982. We both have equal levels of education and jobs. Most of my friends are doin better, some far better than their parents. From my personal experience, I'd say the middle class is larger than it has ever been. I hear a lot of negative attitudes about the economy on the news, but I'd say, as a country, we're in pretty good shape.

I wouldn't have connected it with Reaganomics, but if it is, then I say continue the trend.