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tamias6

GR has bad roads

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Tell me about it! I dodge potholes all day on my scooter. Usually they're half-filled with some substance the City has teaspooned into them. :angry:

Even worse than potholes, in my book, are random sprays of loose gravel.

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I'm surprised. Detroit Metro roads always seemed a lot worse to me...

[and yes, zenstyle speaks the truth about scooters and loose gravel, scary stuff !]

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They sure do. Especially Richmond, Turner, and Ann streets within the Alpine Detour. Speaking of which, I've heard that Alpine between Ann and Richmond won't open til September. They were saying that they would have the bridge completed by the end of june, now the advance says july, and now I don't know what to believe.

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They sure do. Especially Richmond, Turner, and Ann streets within the Alpine Detour. Speaking of which, I've heard that Alpine between Ann and Richmond won't open til September. They were saying that they would have the bridge completed by the end of june, now the advance says july, and now I don't know what to believe.

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There is an AWFUL patch on Burton, west of Buchanan, that has been there for months now. It causes a lot of westbound traffic to veer into the center lane to avoid it.

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What bothers me about the report is that it does not distinguish what type of roads they talking about. I assume it is all, but MDOT roads are different than County roads which are also different than local roads (though not many local roads are considered major roads). The three have different ownership, maintenance, and funding. For all we know 28% of the bad roads could be County or Local and the remaining 6% are MDOT roads meaning MDOT may be doing a fine job or vice versa.

I do think Southeast Michigan gets their lions share of funding, and as much as I would like GR to get a larger portion it is 4.5 million metro to 1.4 million metro? They should be getting 3 times the money as they have 3 times the tax base and 3 times the traffic. I wouldn't trade the mess over there for what we have. I we had tons of funding we would have far more roads with greater capacity which would result in greater maintenance costs and push public transit farther and farther away. The more people hate driving on the roads the more apt they are to support public transit. However, it does not look good to travelers.

The State and County need to get greater assets management plans. They need to be doing a more vigilant job doing road ratings and developing system wide capital improvement plans. I am not sure what they have going now, but it can always be improved especially with some of the amazing free support software (like PASER ratings being entered into RoadSoft) being developed by groups like Michigan LTAP and used by many other counties across the state. I think it is Alcona County who has found great success managing its roads on a tight budget. They use RoadSoft, I think they are sort of the poster child for it.

edit:

Thats weird, it posted it double.

Also want to add to their note about microsurfacing. The asset management plans in the long term help eliminate the situation of wasting money on quick fix overlays and seals by better maintaining the roads while they are still in good shape.

There is a new concrete being researched that I have seen and heard about that is near the equivalent of man made rock or stone, very strong and durable. It is looking to have the potential to last 300+ years in structures before it begins to lose its strength and has huge potential for extremely high strength long lasting pavements. Or because it is so strong very thin concrete beams can be made stronger than steel I-beams. I have a sample of it, quite amazing stuff. When I met with the researcher I was told its compressional strength to cause failure in a 6 inch diameter cylinder was 950,000 lbs!

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Even worse than potholes, in my book, are random sprays of loose gravel.

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The State and County need to get greater assets management plans. They need to be doing a more vigilant job doing road ratings and developing system wide capital improvement plans. I am not sure what they have going now, but it can always be improved especially with some of the amazing free support software (like PASER ratings being entered into RoadSoft) being developed by groups like Michigan LTAP and used by many other counties across the state. I think it is Alcona County who has found great success managing its roads on a tight budget. They use RoadSoft, I think they are sort of the poster child for it.

/quote]

I can assure you both groups are doing extensive asset management - it's mandated and the program must approved by the FHWA. Grand Valley Metro Council has a program for the local gov't agencies (with highway responsibilites) in the MPO for the Federal Aid eligible routes and the Road Commission has taken it to the off-system county primary routes. The Road Commission also uses a modified program on the county local system.

Note on micro-surfacing - it's a tool in the tool box. It has it's place in the maintenance cycle when pavement condition is appropriate, just like overlays and seals. Unfortunately the infrastructure funding encourages another year or 3 of service after the appropriate time for the maintenance activity :(

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I could have told you that.

Covell is the worst road I've ever had to travel down, and I have to every single day. I swear to you, if my car falls apart whilst driving down it, my bill's going to the city because that road is too traveled, and too busy, and been like that too long for no repair.

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As long as I have been in GR I have heard stats that Grand Rapids' roads are some of the worst in the nation. Every single year.

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Give 52nd St. east of Whitneyville Ave. a test drive. Driving that stretch of road is like piloting a small fishing boat in Lake Michigan during a storm.

I could have told you that.

Covell is the worst road I've ever had to travel down, and I have to every single day. I swear to you, if my car falls apart whilst driving down it, my bill's going to the city because that road is too traveled, and too busy, and been like that too long for no repair.

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I'll never understand some of the uh, er "creative" ways the roads are developed . .. for instance . . .head 131 north from 84th street and try to get on M6 going west . . .you have the 131 north traffic trying to merge across an on-ramp to 131 that ties in to an on-ramp to M6 . . or how about 131 heading north as you come into the downtown junction and want to take 196 east . . the off-ramp is also the ON-ramp for the traffic entering 131 north as you are trying to exit to get to 196 . . .HUH?!?! wth? look out and good luck!

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I've always thought of the 131 and 196 junction as the "matchbox" ramp because of the toys where you shoot matchbox cars around on a track until they hit each other and fly off the track.

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Michigan east of Plymouth is AWFUL. It's an awful, terrible, very bad road. Trying to get from the Beltline to downtown via Michigan feels like off-roading. I've asked someone in the city engineering department about it, and was told, yes it's one of the worst in the city, but there's no money to fix it because of decreased revenues from the gas tax. Well, then, change the funding plan so that gas taxes aren't relied upon as heavily!

Is that really the reason the local roads are so horrible? Not enough gas tax revenue???

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Going westbound on Leonard St. from East Beltline to Plainfield Ave. is a chore. It's not that the condition of the road is bad. It's the fact that right and left turn lanes seem to pop up out of nowhere without any warning. One moment you're happily driving on a through lane on Leonard and *POOF* you're going south bound on Plymouth or something wandering what the hack just happened. It's almost as if that stretch of road was designed to keep drivers off of it.

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Michigan east of Plymouth is AWFUL. It's an awful, terrible, very bad road. Trying to get from the Beltline to downtown via Michigan feels like off-roading. I've asked someone in the city engineering department about it, and was told, yes it's one of the worst in the city, but there's no money to fix it because of decreased revenues from the gas tax. Well, then, change the funding plan so that gas taxes aren't relied upon as heavily!

Is that really the reason the local roads are so horrible? Not enough gas tax revenue???

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