Brownstone project on Butler

[tnse]

Has anyone heard of this development site?

http://memphis.bizjournals.com/memphis/sto.../04/story6.html

The article is titled "Local group bringing New York City style to Memphis with brownstone project on Butler"

[G-townTN]

I read the article and it mentioned this will be a gated new york-style community. I am a little confused by this statement. I am assuming they are not referring to manhattan style because if they were this project would not be gated.

The suburbs should have gated communities, not downtown. How can south main be walkable or even resemble an urban area if walls separating everything?

Though this should not really surprise me, these are the same type of people that would oppose building a 14-story tower (tennessee brewery) DOWNTOWN!!!

[Clobber]

Is there anything that can be done to at least create a dialogue about increasing the urbanity of south main? To illustrate that there is interest in higher density, taller developments in that neighborhood? Or has this already been attempted?

[sleepy]

They're 4 story with elevators and prices from $550,000 to $700,000.

http://www.downtownmemphis.com/downtownmem.../brownstone.pdf

[DoctorGonzo]

Is there anything that can be done to at least create a dialogue about increasing the urbanity of south main? To illustrate that there is interest in higher density, taller developments in that neighborhood? Or has this already been attempted?

[gatesofmemphis]

I lived in San Francisco for about a year and a half, on Nob Hill. It was 5 minute walk away from the Business District. With the exception of the nearby hotels, there was not much (if anything) taller than Memphis' Central Station (which sets the height limit on buildings in South Main). Yet no one would ever think to call Nob Hill suburban (or anything else in SF, which tended to be even shorter). Outside of New York, SF is probably what most people think is urban. Why? No offsets from the road, no visible off-street parking, lots of pedestrians.

It's true that a lesser number of floors means less density, but a much greater problem to downtown's density is the great number of surface parking lots (which mean not only fewer residents but also pedestrian dead zones).

This doesn't mean I'm against tall buildings, but I think the suburbanism shows itself much more in the parking and pedestrian situation than in the difference between a 5 story and a 28 story building.

[fearlessvk]

I lived in San Francisco for about a year and a half, on Nob Hill. It was 5 minute walk away from the Business District. With the exception of the nearby hotels, there was not much (if anything) taller than Memphis' Central Station (which sets the height limit on buildings in South Main). Yet no one would ever think to call Nob Hill suburban (or anything else in SF, which tended to be even shorter). Outside of New York, SF is probably what most people think is urban. Why? No offsets from the road, no visible off-street parking, lots of pedestrians.

It's true that a lesser number of floors means less density, but a much greater problem to downtown's density is the great number of surface parking lots (which mean not only fewer residents but also pedestrian dead zones).

This doesn't mean I'm against tall buildings, but I think the suburbanism shows itself much more in the parking and pedestrian situation than in the difference between a 5 story and a 28 story building.

[sleepy]

I agree with all of you who don't eqate low rises necessarily with suburbanism.

Personally, I thought that the proposal for that midrise by the old Tennessee Brewery was a monstrosity. Not because it was tall, but simply because it butchered the view and integrity of the Brewery.

There are enough vacant lots downtown to build 50 story apt. buildings on. That would be fine by me. But I lived in New Orleans for years, 2 miles downriver from Canal St. Walking to Canal, there was nothing but one and two story 1870 homes, fronted right on the sidewalk, with about 6 feet between them. In that 2 mile distance there was exactly ONE vacant lot where a hurricane had blown the roof off a house and never been repaired, so it collapsed eventually. Aside from that, the neighborhoods had bars, shops, etc. on every corner and were full of pedestrians. Absolutely no highrises would have been allowed in those districts, nor would any have been needed to create density.

The worst thing about those brownstones in Memphis is the fact they're gated. But, it's better than nothing IMHO.

[DoctorGonzo]

I lived in San Francisco for about a year and a half, on Nob Hill. It was 5 minute walk away from the Business District. With the exception of the nearby hotels, there was not much (if anything) taller than Memphis' Central Station (which sets the height limit on buildings in South Main). Yet no one would ever think to call Nob Hill suburban (or anything else in SF, which tended to be even shorter). Outside of New York, SF is probably what most people think is urban. Why? No offsets from the road, no visible off-street parking, lots of pedestrians.

[watnow1425]

While I've moved to Boston and can agree with you on the fact that high rises are not necessary to create vibrant street life, suburban-esque gated communities are absolutely guaranteed to have the same effect on the community downtown as they do elsewhere.

Gates eliminate street life and provide limited security at that. Defensible Space Theory has been proven to be more effective than walling off entire blocks completely (though gates can be used selectively, and in moderation to limit points of entry)

You can download the entire book on it for free. It's a good read, and I highly recommend it.

[gatesofmemphis]

While I've moved to Boston and can agree with you on the fact that high rises are not necessary to create vibrant street life, suburban-esque gated communities are absolutely guaranteed to have the same effect on the community downtown as they do elsewhere.

Gates eliminate street life and provide limited security at that. Defensible Space Theory has been proven to be more effective than walling off entire blocks completely (though gates can be used selectively, and in moderation to limit points of entry)

You can download the entire book on it for free. It's a good read, and I highly recommend it.

[memp600]

Looks like the Butler Rows Development is going up. They have a sign up on Third and Butler in Downtown Memphis. The development looks real nice according to the drawing.