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Bush looking to re-start Cold War with Russia


monsoon

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I agree with monsoon on most things on these forums, but even his thread title is a bit leading. Is Putin not complicit in this? Putin is a former KGB agent who is beholden to the hard liners who wish to revert to the ways of the Cold War past. But it is Bush who is looking to re-start the Cold War.

I agree that if Europe does not want the missle defense systems (which are to defend Europe from Iran, not Russia), then they should be abandoned. But let's be fair here.

As a sidebar, I sometimes read the political threads on this forum (and others) but rarely contribute to them. Half my friends are left leaning Democrats who you can't argue with. I'm an Independent, and no big Bush fan, but listening to them, you'd think that Bush was the anti-Christ. They side with Iran over Bush. They side with Chavez over Bush. They side with Putin over Bush. The war on terror is Bush's concocted reason to take away our freedoms and take over the world. The Fort Dix and JFK terror plots were set-ups. Hell, 9-11 was a Bush inside job, et. etc. ad nauseum. Then if I dare say that some parts of the Patriot Act are needed, for example, I'm called a Bush loving facist. Internet forums tend to lean politically left and the scenarios are often similar.

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Stalin died more than a 1/2 century ago and is irrelevant to this conversation. If you think a country's boundaries are meaningless in the world of international relations then you don't have much understanding.
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Well, considering you claim that they are still a super power and have this concept that the physical land mass has an impact on their status in the world, I would say that Stalin has far more influence on things today than Putin will ever have.

Russia today has the same global clout than Wyoming. (Sarcasm) But then again this is a

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Well, considering you claim that they are still a super power and have this concept that the physical land mass has an impact on their status in the world, I would say that Stalin has far more influence on things today than Putin will ever have.

Russia today has the same global clout than Wyoming. (Sarcasm) But then again this is a

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Well actually, unlike you, I have given my reasons for why I feel they are a super power and you have not addressed anything I posted. Instead, the only thing you have done is say they are not even equivalent to Nebraska without giving any rationale which is nothing but simply dismissing the point made originally, (you are even admitting that you are being sarcastic) along with your earlier platitudes on Stalin.

Don't waste any more of out time in this thread until you are ready to address the points at hand and/or want to back your your statements with something more than just contempt for anyone who might feel differently than you. If you don't understand that I will take additional steps to make sure that you do.

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Back or the ordinal post... According to the CBC, Bush does not want to restart any cold war. Putin would like a reason to. Bush (along with multiple others) plans on putting missiles in Eastern Europe (not in Russia) and aiming them at Iran, (also not Russia) Putin said that if Bush does that, he will point missiles at Europe!

Makes a person wonder why Russia would want to protect Iran.

So in short, your analysis of the situation is wrong.

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Missiles can be retargeted in a matter of a few hours. Further, Iran and Russia are allies and trading partners. By your logic, if Russia stationed missiles in Cuba and targeted them at Canada, the US should not see that as a threat.
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Russia, which could level the US tomorrow if it wanted to, is much more a threat to us than Iran, which is at least a decade away from possessing even basic nuclear weapons.

If you think the US would be fine with Russia positioning missiles in Cuba, you really need to brush up on your history. I seem to remember that we've been down that road before. I also seem to recall those Soviet missiles being deployed in response to US missiles stationed in Turkey.

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The War on Terror is just a shortrened name for War on Terrorists. Type in Al qaeda at Wikipedia and read the time line of their militant operations around the world, as well as their continued calls for future attacks against the US here and abroad. And you can still call it political "propaganda". Do you feel they are unable to carry out such missions? Do you think they will just go away?

You don't have to agree how the "war on terrorists" is being carried out; I certainly have my problems with many parts of it, especially the mess in Iraq. But to dismiss it outright as some US crusade is a mistake. Long after Bush is gone, the US will still be dealing with the Islamic fanatics and their desire to kill you, me and everyone else. I suggest all Americans do some non-partisan reading about Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism. Though I doubt it will change the minds of the "US deserves what it gets" crowd.

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The Russians have shown a remarkable ability to shoot down anything that America develops that might fly into or near their territory. A shiny surface on a missile is a very simple solution to dealing with laser light. I don't think they are particularly worried especially given the failure of most of these systems to produce any meaningful results even though billions of dollars are spent on them.
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It looks like this whole ordeal may be averted.

At a meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush during a Group of Eight summit, Putin proposed that the United States and Russia jointly use a radar in Azerbaijan as part of an anti-missile shield that would protect all of Europe.

"We can do this automatically, and hence the whole system which is being built as a result will cover not only part of Europe but the entire Europe without an exception," Putin said.

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Why don't you do some non-partisan reading about the root causes of terrorism? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you aren't going to put out a fire by pouring gasoline on it. Yet that is exactly what we are doing through the notion that terrorism can somehow be eliminated through military action.
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A few points: When the original G-7 meeting was becoming more famous and prestigous in the 90s, the group was afraid Russia would be pushed out of the world economy, and feel threatened. So Russia was invited to be a part of a new G-8. I always felt it was just the West being nice to Russia.

Russia is still part of the G-8 meetings, but guess what---Russia's economy was the 11th largest in the world in 2006(according to wikipedia)I still feel Russia's involvement in G-8 is a charity invitation from the West who know damn well Russia's economy isn't the 8th biggest in the world.

The missle defense issue: I think a lot of people here are quickly forgetting what a menacing leader Putin can be. His administration has bullied neighboring states, threatened others, and attempted to cut off oil to Ukraine for political reasons. I think the Balts were the last ones threatened, over some ethnic issue.

The Baltic states are our allies, and we mustn't trust any country that would threaten them. If the governments of Poland and the Czech Republic feel the defense system is necessary, we must respect their thoughts as well. They are closest to Russia, and are our valued allies, and we must never under any circumstance let our NATO allies' safety become compromised.

I don't trust Putin. He's authoritarian, and at times chauvanistic. So is Bush, but he'll be gone in 19 months. I have a strong feeling Putin will remain in power for quite some time.

If his administration would behave and not bully other countries, a defense system probably wouldn't be suggested. The American claim that it would be there to protect Europe from an Iranian attack is pure B.S. It would be there to remind Putin of his limitations, as well as to protect our European friends from some future Russian dictatorship possibly worse than Putin's quasi-authoritarian state. We never know what could lie ahead for Russia.

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The 747 doesn't have to be anywhere near Russian airspace to shoot down the missiles. Also, even polished aluminum (which really isn't feasible for either a missile body or re-entry vehicle) will not deflect enough of the light to avoid heat buildup on the missile body. Polished aluminum, would, however, significantly raise the IR signature. From what I've heard, they system has exceeded every expectation.

Between the kinetic kill ABMs and the laser 747s, seems like a decent sheild to me.

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