CATS - Government Bureaucracy at its Worst

[sax184]

CATS was created when the tax was approved. It's creation in it's present form was flawed IMO, they suffer from terrible leadership, there is little accountability to the people who are paying the tax, and there is nobody that seems to own the problem of alternative transit in this county. It's not even clear cut on who controls what happens with the tax money. CATS via Tober, the Charlotte City Council and the MTC all have different agendas and no clear cut roles in this entire process.

As a result, you have a system designed and approved by committee that is comprised of politicians and seasoned lets protect my job and empire bureaucrats. It it is going to take 30 years to build a system that only moves 76K people/day and in the process they will collect billions in taxes. It's a sorry and sad state of affairs when better alternatives could be had. I no longer suppport this process.

And also CATS does not run an effective bus system in my book. In many parts of town they run empty buses because they don't have the correct routes and schedules to meet the needs of the people. CATS lost ridership on their buses since last August and is only now recovering.

The only way to fix it is for the people to repeal the tax and send them back to the drawing board to address the issue. Else we won't get anything better.

[monsoon]

I can't take you seriously anymore. The 76K number is completely bogus. It comes from the Feds. While the number is called "CATS' projection" it is the number accepted by the Feds to fund the project. ....

[Mobuchu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont they have to use the Feds guidelines to come up with their #'s. It's been common knowledge that these numbers are always going to be low.

[mallguy]

I can certainly respect the views of CATS critics and those who are opposed to the transit tax. I'd be curious to see, though, specifics about what lines and service levels critics propose be run. (How many light/heavy rail lines? How many bus lines? What frequencies? What fares?)

[monsoon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont they have to use the Feds guidelines to come up with their #'s. It's been common knowledge that these numbers are always going to be low.

[mallguy]

These are very low amounts and the reason they are having to go to the Feds and state for money in the first place.

[monsoon]

Well, the Fed money is there for the taking and if CATS doesn't get it, then it'll go to another system, thus requiring CATS to take money it uses to run its busses to be used for rail line construction instead, reducing bus service. Why let that happen?

[uptownliving]

For those that think the repeal should happen, have you ever contacted your Mayor or the Mecklenburg County Commision Chair to let them know you disagree with their decisions on the MTC? If so what were their responses. I would be interested to know.

[monsoon]

For those that think the repeal should happen, have you ever contacted your Mayor or the Mecklenburg County Commision Chair to let them know you disagree with their decisions on the MTC? If so what were their responses. I would be interested to know.

[cinco]

^ yes, a disturbing fact that i have noticed as well.

*EDIT: i am referring to the comment by mallguy about mysterious deleted posts... subsequently it was deleted.

monsoon, i will not dispute your knowledge on transit issues... you are obviously well versed. however, i fail to see the reasoning on how repealing the transit tax - could be anything but disasterous to our transit initiative.

[Mobuchu]

What happened to the post with the 2 links in them, I didn't get a chance on my work comp to view them??

Anyone thinking repealing the transit tax is going to be a good idea should read this:

http://www.transpol.uncc.edu/LRT%20Report%2004-30-07.pdf

And this:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...;f=253&id=8

The pdf is from a report done by UNCC to determine how well CATS has done with the transit tax and the construction of the South LRT line. It makes comparisons to other transit lines as well as other gov. funded projects.

It lists facts and #'s...

[uptownliving]

... but I honestly do not think that the only way to fix it is to repeal the tax. I still feel more change would happen if people actually went to the meeting and let their voices be heard. Taking away a critical piece of money is only going to put us furthur behind.

[Justadude]

I'm just curious, and I hope this doesn't drag us off topic:

If a Democrat were to be elected President this time around, I would assume that the Feds would have more money to work with in financing mass transit (especially since the Dems are running on an earth-friendly platform)? If so, does this mean it might be a little less difficult in the future for us to qualify for much-needed transit funding? Or are the rules already so firm that there's no changing them in the near future?

[dubone]

Without the transit tax, there is no transit outside of that funded through tradition sales and property tax proceeds. We need the local funds in order to match any federal funds that come available, which is pretty likely in the next couple of years.

There have been many debates on this forum about some wasteful projects, such as the North line, which cost hundreds of millions of dollars, yet only attract 2-3000 riders, only a little bit more than the express bus route that already runs on that route. That would be the prime reason that I would agree that the governance of CATS is severely limited, as the prioritized this line as the next line, despite this poor performance in the analysis.

CATS is as poorly run as any organization that doesn't have a profit center. It is inherently political in nature, yet there is so much political double-speak, there isn't really a clear direction for them to do what is right based on technical analysis. Instead they get the direction to favor the North line purely because there are 3 times the vote for the northern Meck villages as there are for the city with most of the jobs, people, and transportation trips. If a re-structured tax allows the transit system to move away from kowtowing to the anti-urban suburbs, then it might result in a more efficient transit system.

Disrupting the status quo does not bode well for solving any problems, however, as they would need to go through a very tenuous process of re-gaining political support. It is very unlikely that a new transit tax will be enacted within 5 years. Politics relies on momentum, and a yes vote to repeal the tax would certainly suspend all wind from the sails for creating transit here.

I guess the effort to repeal tax is the suburban mentality expressing itself. Live a highly inefficient life, which is very costly to support governmentally, and then starve the government of the funds to solve that problem because they don't meet the expectations within that area. Of course the transit system isn't very efficient, as the county residents, especially the tax sensitive ones, are not distributed in a way that the transit system can serve. However, the area inside 485, and even more so, the area inside Rt 4, is much more dense and populated. That area would be much more efficient to focus on for transit infrastructural investment. If the suburbanites want to flee from participation, then so be it. Charlotte should have known that regional cooperation was a myth when the suburbs define themselves by their lack of participation with the core of the city in the first place.

Also, is the official position of Urban Planet now in opposition to the transit tax?

[monsoon]

....

Also, is the official position of Urban Planet now in opposition to the transit tax?

[e2ksj3]

I think it is a mistake to create a mass transit sales tax, and turn around and spend the vast majority of it to keep buses on the road and operate a huge bureaucracy in the process. People consider buses a poor man's mode of traffic since they use the same roads as everything else, and they don't lead to pedestrian friendly environments. At best they can be a supplement to a more substantial transit network which Charlotte is not building.

I am simply not impressed by a system that is only going to move 76K people 25 years from now. It is a system by committee that doesn't solve any of the issues facing Charlotte and furthermore there is no one being held responsible for this. A vote for the transit tax is a vote for this status quo and I think the city deserves better. At this point, if the vote were held today, I would probably vote to repeal the tax.

[Lady Celeste]

3. Comparisons with MARTA. MARTA has heavy rail, underground, through a larger Central Business District and 20 years of existence. It is easily the worst-performing heavy rail in the US with a transfer point. That the system carries that LITTLE for a heavy rail is actually an embarrassing testament to how poorly heavy rail works in Atlanta.

[soccer1guy_99]

Metro, I disagree with you on a couple points. First Accountability, CATS seems to be under a constant microscope. The local media and conservative politicians are constantly attacking CATS and investigating their finances. The papers, politicians and UNC-Charlotte have all investigated CATS in the past year.

In addition, I have to agree with mobuchu that federal modeling is flawed. Dallas, Denver, Portland, Salt Lake City, and St Louis have all exceeded projections. These projects are comparable to Charlotte; they are recent light-rail new starts and are in mid-sized cities. Three of the projects you listed were experimental and I am not even sure they went through the same federally mandated projection process.

The Vermont line was an attempt to improve service during road construction. It was scaled back because projections showed low ridership. It was partially funded because the track was old, and upgrades would assist freight traffic.

The Miami line was started as temporary service to alleviate traffic during construction on I-95. It has since been expanded and ridership is increasing.

Jacksonville was approved to test the use of Downtown people movers in the 1970

[uptownliving]

CATS lost ridership on their buses since last August and is only now recovering.

[mallguy]

I have been closely involved in the development of the light and heavy rail lines, both proposed and under construction, around Charlotte. For the lines that have been proposed (thus excluding the south line), I and plenty of others have spent an enormous amount of time going through ridership projections, costs, etc., comparing various alternatives for those lines- regular city bus, bus rapid transit, light rail, heavy rail, etc. In almost all cases, the costs of rail lines compared to bus lines are far higher compared to the ridership benefits gained. It has already been extremely difficult to get funding for the south line, and given rail's far higher costs per rider than bus lines, I think it will be extremely difficult to get funding for some of the other lines-particularly as the ridership projections for rail lines often isn't much higher than bus lines- sometimes maybe 20% more, but at a cost that's much more than 20% higher.

So monsoon, I understand and agree with your position that we need to be building many more rail lines (perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but that's what I take you as saying). In a dream world, Charlotte would be building rail lines all around the area. But even if Charlotte did, the ridership, based on very detailed and carefully thought-out projections, wouldn't be Manhattan-style ridership levels per line, and for many of the lines where rail is being considered, wouldn't be a lot higher than bus lines (such as bus rapid transit). And no way would the Feds approve grants for lines with low cost-to-benefit levels, but it would be a tough sell to the electorate and local politicians (even Democrats). Charlotte is simply a low-density, suburban area. CATS focuses on developing rail transit the most in key corridors where transit can and will be a feasible alternative to the car, and it provides bus service everywhere else.

In my view, I am proud that Ron Tober and others on CATS have succeeded in building a light rail line (and have realistic prospects of building other rail lines) in a sprawling, Sun Belt city with severe funding constraints and a conservative, pro-car political environment. Politics is the art of balancing one's dreams with what's practical and possible, and Tober and CATS have done well to get Charlotte what it has. Given the massive expense of building rail lines, take away the transit tax and you'll kill off effective transit in Charlotte. Keep the tax and we'll at least have a funding source that, together with federal and state money (why pass that up?), will build rail lines that local politicians and the electorate will support as being good investments.

[MZT]

I not only think the blue line will exceed expectations, but we'll be soon kicking ourselves for not building stations that can accommodate 3 train cars. The other cities mentioned with successful lines, did so when gas was $1.25 a gallon.

Just today, somebody walked up to me at my bus stop asking how often the bus ran, and what it cost... complaining about the price of gas, and what it cost to maintain his pickup truck.

[49er]

As a property owner I am furious with the repeal folks. Let the transit tax be collected from anyone who spends money in Mecklenburg, locals and visitors, apartment dwellers and homeowners. Heck, the typical and most likey non homeowner transit rider who rides out of necessity rather than choice at least pays into the sales tax to fund the system they use. Folks, property taxes WILL go up if Charlotte has to find a way to plug a 74 million dollar hole in the budget. I find this to be a foregone conclusion.

[sax184]

Whether you take me seriously or not is up to you but it has nothing to do with what I posted.

Actually CATS spent great deals of money to do modeling, with Parsons I believe, to come up with those numbers. They were not handed out by Federal government. If the numbers are bogus then CATS has wasted a lot of time and tax money to produce something that doesn't serve anyone any good purpose. Until proven otherwise, I will criticize them on what they are publishing as their plans for transit.

[Miesian Corners]

Did anyone notice the map in today's Observer of neighborhoods from which the signatures were collected? Just as I suspected: the west side/poor areas of the county. The cretins working for the anti-transit group worded their speech such as that they just wanted to lower the sales tax, NOT what part of the sales tax. What poor folks wouldn't want lower sales taxes? Trouble is, the neighborhoods in question currently have the highest percentage of bus ridership. They are completely unaware that a huge amount of the money collected from the half cent tax has expanded the bus system to its current level--the very level they have come to depend on.

[sax184]

Not to butt into a conversation that has nothing to do with me but can you please substantiate your quote above. For a system to only operate in two of metro Atlanta's numerous counties. Even within those two counties there is not complete coverage. In fact, considering how limited MARTA's heavy rail is, I would think that most in metro Atlanta find 250,000 riders to be alot.