Reviews of the 275 Fulton Place design

[torgo]

I don't get the gripes about "transition" and "context" and all that with regard to Plaza Towers either. I am also happy that it looks nothing like PT. And I know I have read posts where people like GRAM because it is a "contrast" from the rest of Monroe Center's buildings. Well, which is it? Contrast or no contrast?

[RustTown]

For those of you pontificating on the design (which I've been guilty of too ), here's the architect's website that I forgot to post:

http://www.meyer-vanschooten.nl/

I wouldn't say it's a "first attempt".

[AlexPKeaton]

I'd give it a 9 because I hate the surface parking under the tower. I realize it was probably a requirement to keep Urban Mill and the other tenets in the Plaza Towers happy, but it doesn't make surface parking suck any less. I'll hold out hope that in the post-automobile era the parking will turned into a pocket park that just happens to have a building floating overhead.

Other than that complaint I really like what I see.

[tamias6]

At first I was a little skeptical, but the more I look at it the better I like it. The glass is winning a ton of brownie points from me. I did cast my vote for one of the higher numbers. But like the new GRAM I'm going to do a holding pattern until I see the finish product, as renderings never do a building esp. like this one any justice.

[jwazzz]

Snoogit - Don't sugar coat it, tell us what you really think. In a city that has more than it's fair share of boring, bland buildings, the plans for 275 should be applauded if for no other reason than for their bold vision. Personally, I love the design and think it will join the GRAM in setting new design standards for GR.

[LowLax]

I'm a structural engineer and I'd have to say that cantilever is very optimistic. Especially with 8 stories on top of it. There is no way the lower floor is only going to be 12" thick like they seem to be showing.

I like the international style thing, but I think the proportioning is odd and it looks sort of bland.

[Vertigo]

While taking a train out of Amsterdam to Germany a couple of years back, I was taken by the design of the many housing

and office buildings in view from my window seat. This newly proposed building takes me back to that place.

I absolutely love it.

This is a design that needs to belong on our waterfront.

Pity that the atrocity that is called "Devos Place" was not designed by this firm.

H

[mjak68]

I like it. I think it adds texture to the cityscape. I could do without that screening stuff. If that's to cover up the parking garage, then I'd rather just see a glass front with cars parked behind it. No use in pretending they're not there.

[snoogit]

Snoogit - Don't sugar coat it, tell us what you really think.

[Nitro]

I think Cantilevers look like s*** and remind me more of 70's era urban renewal then they do 2000's modern architecture.

[snoogit]

I have no idea in the world how you can correlate a cantiliver to urban renewal.

Would you say the same thing for Lamar's cantiliver in Hudsonville?

[Allison Slater]

I agree completely with Snoogit. I'm sure there's ways to approach cantilevers without it looking atrocious, but this just is not it. Same with Lamar's in Hudsonville. I never commented on that one, I just held my tongue on it but now I'll say: they're both horrid.

Also, I don't see any Deconstrivism in this design at all. I see modernism, and Deconstructivism is a type of Modernism, if that's what you're comparing it to. I actually think this project would indeed look great if some Deconstrictivist elements were added to it. Maybe not like the falling walls of that building near 196, but just more shape to it in general than a few cubes on sticks. (Rectangular Prisms for the technical, because I know somebody will say 'those aren't cubes'.)

On the plaza, bring some glass down to the ground in a corner and along a side a little bit. Add another cantilever to the SE corner somewhere, fix the facade on the lower floors of the NW corner, and draw one floor out from the north tower halfway to the south tower, or at least a false glass wall to give it a little more shape and flow. With those changes, then I would change my vote from a 2.5 to a 5.0 with possibility of it 'growing on me' but as it is now, no way.

[Aiming High]

Snoogit- My thoughts exactly with the ice cube thing. Ick. If it doesn't look like anything else, fine - but I also think it will be out-dated in 10 years.

But design aside, what exactly is supposed to be going IN this/these buildings? In downtown there is a whole lot of empty office space, so I really don't think more of that is needed. On the ground if there is going to be shops, etc, that is great....but they will have to be real destination shops to get people in.

Too fancy for a grocery store, huh? That would be great.

Housing?

What is supposed to go in this space?

[NorthCoast]

Snoogit - Don't sugar coat it, tell us what you really think. In a city that has more than it's fair share of boring, bland buildings, the plans for 275 should be applauded if for no other reason than for their bold vision. Personally, I love the design and think it will join the GRAM in setting new design standards for GR.

[Jones]

Bland? Personally, I find this design to be more bland than many other buildings downtown. Architects are going from one extreme to the other....30 years ago you couldn't get someone to design a building with any windows and now the buildings are nothing but. I think there needs to be a happy medium somewhere. I'm not saying that these type of glass buildings are bad but with the Amway, Mariott, GRAM, and now this I just don't want them to completely consume our skyline.

I guess I just like my buildings with a little brick to them.

[GRDadof3]

Snoogit- My thoughts exactly with the ice cube thing. Ick. If it doesn't look like anything else, fine - but I also think it will be out-dated in 10 years.

But design aside, what exactly is supposed to be going IN this/these buildings? In downtown there is a whole lot of empty office space, so I really don't think more of that is needed. On the ground if there is going to be shops, etc, that is great....but they will have to be real destination shops to get people in.

Too fancy for a grocery store, huh? That would be great.

Housing?

What is supposed to go in this space?

[Prankster]

Enough of the armchair developers with a utopian fetish.

[NorthCoast]

Are you looking at the same GRAM as I am? That thing is like 80% concrete.

[Libertarian]

Possible Positive Externalities:

I believe there would be no blinding reflections of the sun off this thing(golscorer?), as opposed to the effect you have off of the Amway’s glass. This is NOT “Wedding Cake Architecture"(am I quoting you correctly GRDad?); see Icon for a descricption. Will strive for LEED certification--huge accomplishment for office buildings/residential anywhere in the US. Will mostly preserve views for Plaza Towers(just look at the huge cut-out in the middle of it). Creates greenspace on the roof, which absorbs excess heat that would traditionally be reflected back out onto the urban landscape. The greenspace also absorbs more precipitation and sends less runoff to the sewage treatment plant/river than a traditional building. The net gain to GR is greater than any total cost(I.e. loss of public space). GR “architourism,” this would be just another piece to the puzzle.

Possible Negative Externalities:

I like “Wedding Cake Architecture!” This is ugly as sin. It takes up way more park space than it recreates… and I would think that it would be private on the roof. Basically this is so ugly that I would need a therapist.

If this gets built, does this raise the ante for other companies' future projects? I would think so. Does anyone have a good guess as to the total park/greenspace loss and the total gain when considering the roofscape? Would the new total greenspace be the same, smaller, or larger than if it were not built? Would this type of building actually reduce the shadow it would give off compared to a similar structure with a more opaque fa

[GRDadof3]

Possible Positive Externalities:

I believe there would be no blinding reflections of the sun off this thing(golscorer?), as opposed to the effect you have off of the Amway

[cheshireguy]

Last year I was in Denver for a getaway, and I fell in love with the ecclectic architecture. Standing next to a 120 year old 10 story brick monster with egg-and-dart crown moulding around the top is a 12 story Ultra-Mod with opaque glass and lots of copper... it makes for a great, diverse feel in the downtown. This is a great addition to our downtown for that reason. We celebrate both the rich history of our city with the McKays and the Pantlinds and embrace the future as well with the GRAMs, the JWs, and this great addition. Build it now!!!!!

PS- GRDAD, what is that Vegas-like debacle od a rendering? It is the new casino in the D?

[joeDowntown]

I agree. I love contrast. I think GRAM will do this. so will VAI 2. One of my favorite examples of old and "new" is the John Hancock building in Boston:

Joe

Last year I was in Denver for a getaway, and I fell in love with the ecclectic architecture. Standing next to a 120 year old 10 story brick monster with egg-and-dart crown moulding around the top is a 12 story Ultra-Mod with opaque glass and lots of copper... it makes for a great, diverse feel in the downtown. This is a great addition to our downtown for that reason. We celebrate both the rich history of our city with the McKays and the Pantlinds and embrace the future as well with the GRAMs, the JWs, and this great addition. Build it now!!!!!

PS- GRDAD, what is that Vegas-like debacle od a rendering? It is the new casino in the D?

[GRDadof3]

Last year I was in Denver for a getaway, and I fell in love with the ecclectic architecture. Standing next to a 120 year old 10 story brick monster with egg-and-dart crown moulding around the top is a 12 story Ultra-Mod with opaque glass and lots of copper... it makes for a great, diverse feel in the downtown. This is a great addition to our downtown for that reason. We celebrate both the rich history of our city with the McKays and the Pantlinds and embrace the future as well with the GRAMs, the JWs, and this great addition. Build it now!!!!!

PS- GRDAD, what is that Vegas-like debacle od a rendering? It is the new casino in the D?

[Aiming High]

There are a myriad of links to articles and commission agenda packets that explain what this building is for in the other 275 Fulton Place thread. Please at least do some research before commenting about the intended use of the building.

[GRDadof3]

Wow - well, I thought this was a place for discussion, and education, so I asked a question. This was the first thread I saw regarding the building (btw- read up on it in the others when I found them), and asked some questions; as obviously the users who frequent UP on a daily basis know more than I do. Don't worry, I won't do that again.

And no matter what the usage, I still don't particulary care for the design. But in my opinion, any building in GR is good - and everyone will not agree the aesthetics. Or am I not allowed to give my opinion on that either?

Thanks for making me feel welcome. GR3