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Tokyo


monsoon

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  • 2 months later...

Hey all.

Nice pics. I have been to Tokyo 2 times and stayed for 1 month each time. I can tell you that this city is huge. I stayed in the outer zones of Tokyo what the locals call the country side LOL, and yet you will not find 1 blade of grass there due to such development. And yes it is super crowded there. I've been to metro NYC and I can tell you this place kills NYC by being bigger by at least 10 times. Very impressive city if you like urban areas. My girl is from there and I am from charlotte NC. She calls CLT a village :lol:

And I thought charlotte was big.....

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I agree. If you ever get the chance to go there, NYC and London are fantastic. I hope to go to Tokyo one day. My concern is the language barrier. I can handle European languages fairly well, but the Japanese is extremely intimidating. Any thoughts on that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I would guess that being english a new universal language, you could survive with it. Of course, I have not been there, so am just guessing.

It looks like a wondeful city.

:ph34r:

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  • 2 months later...

Well, I would guess that being english a new universal language, you could survive with it. Of course, I have not been there, so am just guessing.

It looks like a wondeful city.

:ph34r:

I have been doing a LOT of research on Tokyo since I am planning a couple week trip there in May. Almost all the rail stops & maps have names in Japanese and English. Although these pictures don't show it, there are quite a few nice parks and greenspace in Tokyo. I was glad to learn it hasn't all been built over. In the first picture, the building on the left is the Park Hyatt, which was featured in the movie "Lost in Translation"

I can't wait to go there!

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. Almost all the rail stops & maps have names in Japanese and English. Although these pictures don't show it,

That is true for the JR train system. However on some of the private lines the signs are all in Japanese. In any case, I highly recommend that you get a rail pass before going on the trip. It will save you a lot of money and in some cases you can skip the lines as there will be a separate entrance for rail pass holders.

Have fun on your trip!

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I looked at the rail pass, but since I will only be traveling around the Tokyo area I don't think it will be worth it. I think a 7 day pass is around 280 dollars, however I read where you could by an all day subway pass for around 7 dollars. The rail pass would be good for traveling via bullet trail to places like Kyoto, Osaka, etc.

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I looked at the rail pass, but since I will only be traveling around the Tokyo area I don't think it will be worth it. I think a 7 day pass is around 280 dollars, however I read where you could by an all day subway pass for around 7 dollars. The rail pass would be good for traveling via bullet trail to places like Kyoto, Osaka, etc.

Keep in mind that much of the local train service in the Tokyo area are JR local express trains. There are 2 subways in the Tokyo area and one in Yokohama. And at least with Yokohama, you will need to take JR to get there.

If you really want to see most of the metro you are going to have to travel on a JR train. During my visit there I think we rode the subway maybe twice. But we were on JR local trains almost all the time as they go to where most of the things are that we wanted to see. With that said JR travel is relatively expensive as it is distance based so a rail pass will definately save money if you use it a lot.

As you mentioned, the JR pass is good for shinkanzen travel, so if you wanted to take a day trip to Kyoto or similar place, that would be possible too. It's worth it for a ride on this train as it is unlike almost anything else that I have seen. Its also good for the NEX to Narita Airport which is fairly expensive to ride. I am not sure about central Tokyo, but the NEX cost almost $100 each way from the Airport out to where my sister lives in Kamakura.

I agree that it is easy for an American to travel to Tokyo. English is in wide use in the area and the people are fairly helpful though many will not admit to speaking English when they actually can. Further out of the metro it becomes more difficult as non-Japanese are much more rare and there isn't as much English in use. If you plan to go out of the Metro it helps to join a tour or a group that speaks English. I recommend trips to Hakone and Nikko.

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Hmm, I think I may be getting rail lines and subway lines confused. Is there a diffrernt map for each? I have seen that just about everywere I plan on going in Tokyo is on the Yamanote Line. I'll be staying in the Ueno area, and have seen that from Narita airport the NEX is around $30. Do you know if it is possible to just take the shinkanzen to Yokohama? I didn't know if there was a stop there, or if it would just be best to take the JR express.

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Tokyo is unlike most other major cities in that its municipal subway system does not provide most of the transport in the city. The Yamanote Line is a JR local express line and a pass on the subway would not pay for access to this line. You can take the Shinkanzen from Tokyo station to Yokohame station but it will not operate at full speed as there are noise restrictions in place that limit the speeds of the trains at this point. It would be easier and less expensive to board the Tokaido local express JR line to go to Yokohama from Tokyo.

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What the heck is this?

You can't have an intelligent debate done in respectable fashion (no insulting, name-calling...etc)on this forum without one of the mods deciding to delete the entire exchange just because..? I can understand if it would have went out of line through name-calling or insulting but it had none of that. It was done in good taste. What the heck?

Oh well...So much for expressing opinions on a "public" forum.. I guess as long as you hold the same opinions as the mods it'll be OK to post what you have to say.

Lancer

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Tokyo is unlike most other major cities in that its municipal subway system does not provide most of the transport in the city. The Yamanote Line is a JR local express line and a pass on the subway would not pay for access to this line. You can take the Shinkanzen from Tokyo station to Yokohame station but it will not operate at full speed as there are noise restrictions in place that limit the speeds of the trains at this point. It would be easier and less expensive to board the Tokaido local express JR line to go to Yokohama from Tokyo.

I would say that your statement about JR versus the Subway (Metro/Toei) is not quite correct.

Each time I've been in Tokyo, I found thit I was using the subway more than the Yamanote. It depends on where you go, though, but if you just stick to JR, you'll miss a lot (roppongi, asakusa, odaiba, etc, etc). Inside the Yamanote, there are just a few stations on the Chuo line and that's it.

If you're not leaving the Tokyo area, there are all-day subway passes as well as all-day JR passes for all the stations (50ish, I think) inside Tokyo-to. I forget how much they cost, though.

But my advice to you: try as many different modes of transportation as you can. Try walking, try JR, subways, bullet trains, private railways, monorails, buses, streetcars, taxis, and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ride the yurikamome!! ... and come home impressed at one of the world's most heavily used and most comprehensive transportation systems.

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The tone of the exchange had gone beyond what we usually allow here at UrbanPlanet. Please feel free to express your opinion on the subject, and any facts that you have. But please avoid starting out by accusing people of mis-representing the facts.

Oh but you did mis-represent the facts.. And in a very big way. 22Million is a factor of 3 difference from 7M for NYC metro's population. Anybody who is an urban enthusiast and has lived in NYC knows that just the city itself has well over 8M people... From your posts it makes me think that you never actually lived in the city itself but in a suburb.

It is unfair to use the Tokyo metropolitan population which has 30+ million people (which is a metropolitan figure determined for Tokyo proper + surrounding prefectures and satellite cities) as a means of comparison with NY without using the appropriate figure for the NY metro area (which is well over 20M).

But it is ok to make mistakes although I believe it is quite valid to point out errors in what people say as long as one does it in a respectable, non-condescending manner which I had done in the now non-existent exchange. If you just don't like errors being pointed out in what you say(like orulz also just pointed out an error) than that is another problem altogether.

What's up with that?

Lancer

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  • 2 weeks later...

What is the fixation with suburbia?

I am not confusing anything. I have said numerous times that Manhattan is NYC's core and it is denser than anything in Tokyo. I have also stated that Tokyo's metro area is denser than the New York metro area.

So? What's the big deal with dense as opposed to lightly-settled suburbs? I don't go to a big city to visit its suburbs. When I go to New York I go to visit Manhattan and the other boroughs.. not Long Island or Westchester.

I never said that Tokyo's suburbs weren't denser than New York's suburbs. But my point always have been and always will be that Manhattan is as dense and probably denser than anything in Tokyo. But anyhow... 7000/sq. km is not "dense." Jersey City and Newark both have densities over that. Where I am from, that is still considered low density development. That is still well below NYC densities of over 10,000. And when you include tourists and illegal aliens (which for all practical purposes don't exist in Tokyo) this number it is considerably higher than 10,000 per sq. km. Maybe more like 11-12,000 per sq. km.

It is notable to add that that 10,000+ per sq. km number includes suburban Staten Island through which the subway doesn't even go through. Staten Island is not considered to be one of the "urbanized" boroughs. If you just include the 4 main boroughs, the density is over 12,000 per sq. km not including aliens or illegals. Seeing as Staten Island is an outlier and doesn't really figure much into the rest of NYC, this is a better estimate for NYC density.

Besides, Your original point was that Tokyo metropolitan area was as dense as Manhattan except spread over a large area. Obviously this is not true as 7,000 is much less than 27,000/sq.km.

Tokyo is not Hong Kong. Show me proof that states there are areas in Tokyo exceeding 50,000 people/sq. km. Maybe 50,000 people/sq MILE but not per sq. km.

I don't follow here. You were talking about how much denser Greater Tokyo is over the CSA and then you turn around to say that Manhattan is only the shnizzit in NA. I fail to see why Manhattan's hyperdensity of 27,000/sq. km has anything to do with the low density of the CSA? The CSA can be low density and sprawl all it wants as long as it continues providing the commuters that help New York maintain its hyperdense city core. Metro area density is not really that important, but city density sure is. That is all that really matters.

It seems like the only factor you wish to equate to a city's "coolness" is density. If that's the case Manhattan automatically wins because it is the seat of the most dense financial district in the world. But density isn't everything. Aside from having the 2 largest stock exchanges in the world, and being an international capital in terms of finance, clout, arts, literature, fashion,journalism, Wall Street ,the world's best museums,.....etc , It is arguably the worlds most ethnically diverse, cosmopolitan city and acts as a true melting pot representing virtually every nationality and cuisine from the entire globe. I can speak Spanish in the morning while having a pastelito, Farsi in the afternoon over stuffed cabbage, and fine-dine in an obscure Turkmenistan restaurant at night. Can I easily do that in Tokyo?

Not to mention that NYC has the closest thing we got to a world government in the form of the United Nations.. If there is anything approaching a "Capital of the World" it would be New York. Tokyo, while vibrant and interesting and has an advanced rail system(though the subway is behind compared to NYC)-- is just light years behind in these other arenas.

This is why Manhattan is the global shnizzit.

Let me make it clear that density isn't the only thing that makes a city, well, a global city. Even though the Tokyo metropolitan area has more people overall than the New York metropolitan area, Tokyo has a long ways to go before it catches up to New York City in pure international clout. Although Tokyo is considered a global city it still lags behind both London and New York City in global influence, finance, art, culture, and cosmopolitanism. And I don't see Tokyo overtaking NYC in importance anytime soon.

The only thing Tokyo has on New York is electronics with its awesome Akhibara district.

And? Why do you care so much about the suburbs? Why would I go to Fujisawa instead of Tokyo?Just to see how crowded the suburbs can get? The function of suburbs is to provide much of the commuter base for the main city. As long as that happens whether the suburbs have 22M in 30,000 sq. km or in 3,000 sq. km it doesn't really have any significance.

And it doesn't have any significance because the rail lines still go to those suburbs, pick up the same commuters, and bring them into the main city. As a result, population density really only matters when referring to the city proper.

Man. You have no idea. I have seen trains in Queens busier than this. This is nothing new. This is actually a very run-of-the-mill scene. You obviously have not been to Manhattan in a long time.

BTW, this is the reason why Manhattan trains are on the whole not quite as crowded as those in Shinjuku or Shibuya:

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?40315

Now tell me WHERE in CENTRAL Tokyo would you have not 1, 2, 3, 4, but THIRTEEN subway transit lines in ONE station? In fact this number of lines exceeds the number of lines in the entire Tokyo subway system (Toei + Tokyo metro subways combined only have 12). Get the picture?

Tokyo actually is a more important economic city than NYC... seeing as how like 40% of the worlds economy goes is dealt with in that city alone.

Most people dont use subways as often in Tokyo, you get no cell phone coverage and the JR and other lines go to enough places you dont need a subway. Shinjuku station is the bussiest train station in the world, I think about 15 lines run through it. I could be a little off... but it is massive.

Most people dont live in the Tokyo city core anyways... they designate certain areas for certain things... Business, Shopping, Electronics... all the apartments are probably filled up. They really can't build more.

Trust me, Japanese people dont enjoy taking a train for an hour every morning to get to work... and neither did I. Though you can get some sleep in it. Anyway

Tokyo is great... I miss the 24 hour atmosphere....

I wish I could load my pictures of it... but I cant. Oh well..

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