ICON

[TopCat]

I heard a rumor that Icon's footings are slipping and that columns were set in out of plumb. The talk was they are having major issues with several sub contractors to the point that projected completion dates are sliding significantly. Anyone else hearing this? It has seemed to me that after such a fast start the project has slowed down.

[titanhog]

I heard a rumor that Icon's footings are slipping and that columns were set in out of plumb. The talk was they are having major issues with several sub contractors to the point that projected completion dates are sliding significantly. Anyone else hearing this? It has seemed to me that after such a fast start the project has slowed down.

[ATLBrain]

Ooooh, that can't be good. So if true, is this a reflection on Bristol's lack of experience in big projects?

[MTSUBlueraider86]

Footers don't slip! This is an example of mis-information. I had a structural engineer tell me that footers are between 8000 pounds and 12,000 pounds and the caissons resting on them are 14,000 pounds, almost 12 cubic yards of concrete per caisson! The weight of the building holds itself in place. If footers were slipping, the building would have collapsed! The footers are secured into the bedrock either by rebar driled into the bedrock, or the footer sits several inches into the bedrock. Even if the footer sits directly on top of the bedrock, at that weight it will not move. All of this is assured by the original core drilling to see how dense and how deep the rock goes. In regards to the caissons are not plumb...wtf? They are not drywall beams! The conture and the topography of the lot determines where caissons are placed, Also the fracture and the cleavage of the stone determine where caissons are placed and where the footers are placed.

[TopCat]

Footers don't slip! This is an example of mis-information. I had a structural engineer tell me that footers are between 8000 pounds and 12,000 pounds and the caissons resting on them are 14,000 pounds, almost 12 cubic yards of concrete per caisson! The weight of the building holds itself in place. If footers were slipping, the building would have collapsed! The footers are secured into the bedrock either by rebar driled into the bedrock, or the footer sits several inches into the bedrock. Even if the footer sits directly on top of the bedrock, at that weight it will not move. All of this is assured by the original core drilling to see how dense and how deep the rock goes. In regards to the caissons are not plumb...wtf? They are not drywall beams! The conture and the topography of the lot determines where caissons are placed, Also the fracture and the cleavage of the stone determine where caissons are placed and where the footers are placed.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

That may be true, but as long as I haved lived here in Nashville, that has never hapened, and if it did, that is a MAJOR news story.

[Jeeper12]

I heard a rumor that Icon's footings are slipping and that columns were set in out of plumb. The talk was they are having major issues with several sub contractors to the point that projected completion dates are sliding significantly. Anyone else hearing this? It has seemed to me that after such a fast start the project has slowed down.

[Jeeper12]

Ooooh, that can't be good. So if true, is this a reflection on Bristol's lack of experience in big projects?

[titanhog]

I don't know whether these structural setbacks are true but it's quite obvious that this project is now at least a year behind schedule. I have also heard from several subcontractors working on the project that the developer has gone over his original budget by approximately $10 million. They sold out the entire project in April of 2006 and I've seen a few of the sales contracts that stipulate the developer has just 24 months from April of 2006 to deliver units to their buyers. Given their progress there is no possible way they can finish the project in just 10 months; they'll be lucky to be topped out by then. But unless they finish by next April it appears to me that all 400 buyers will no longer be bound to close on their units. That doesn't mean they won't do so it just suggests that if the bottom falls out of the condo market between now and the time Bristol finishes the project they could be forced to return all the original deposits and re-market all the units that were originally sold.

[producer2]

It's not surprising to hear that they are stumbling. Bristol is doing their first high-rise condo and they hired out-of-town architect and contractors, neither of which had any significant condo or high-rise experience. It's my understanding that the mechanical, electrical and plumbing engineers are also new to this product type. All of these decisions basically create a perfect storm environment that tends to lend itself to significant problems and delays. I think they will be lucky to get this one finished by the end of 2008.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

Just because Bristol is doing the project, the responsibility rests on the State of Tennessee inspectors that are supposed to monitor the job.

[Jeeper12]

Just because Bristol is doing the project, the responsibility rests on the State of Tennessee inspectors that are supposed to monitor the job.

[TopCat]

blueraider, why do you continue to post comments that are misleading and/or untrue ? Your board cred seems to be at an all time low.

The "State of Tennessee" doesn't have anything to do with inspecting projects that are under construction. This responsiblity lies with the structural engineer (typically contracted by the architect), the general contractor and, with large projects such as this, a third party structural engineer hired by the developer to ensure that the contractor is installing the concrete and steel per the plans and specs. So, if there has been a failure one would need to know why it failed in order to know who was responsible, since the cause could be attributed to faulty design, improper installation, or a combination of both. Since the developer contracts directly or indirectly with all of these players they are ultimately responsible for everything but in light of the inaccurate post by blueraider I figured a little color might be appropriate.

[TopCat]

That may be true, but as long as I haved lived here in Nashville, that has never hapened, and if it did, that is a MAJOR news story.

[elguapo731]

Does this halt construction at all??? I did a drive by this morning and they are still pouring concrete for support on the 5th floor. Just wondered what actually went into fixing one of these. Currently they are on the 5th floor, well its 5 on one side an on the 4th on the other end of the property.

[Hankster]

Does this halt construction at all??? I did a drive by this morning and they are still pouring concrete for support on the 5th floor. Just wondered what actually went into fixing one of these. Currently they are on the 5th floor, well its 5 on one side an on the 4th on the other end of the property.

[eatmorepasta]

I don't know whether these structural setbacks are true but it's quite obvious that this project is now at least a year behind schedule. I have also heard from several subcontractors working on the project that the developer has gone over his original budget by approximately $10 million. They sold out the entire project in April of 2006 and I've seen a few of the sales contracts that stipulate the developer has just 24 months from April of 2006 to deliver units to their buyers. Given their progress there is no possible way they can finish the project in just 10 months; they'll be lucky to be topped out by then. But unless they finish by next April it appears to me that all 400 buyers will no longer be bound to close on their units. That doesn't mean they won't do so it just suggests that if the bottom falls out of the condo market between now and the time Bristol finishes the project they could be forced to return all the original deposits and re-market all the units that were originally sold.

[eatmorepasta]

Does this halt construction at all??? I did a drive by this morning and they are still pouring concrete for support on the 5th floor. Just wondered what actually went into fixing one of these. Currently they are on the 5th floor, well its 5 on one side an on the 4th on the other end of the property.

[eatmorepasta]

Bristol's "lack of experience in big projects"? They are "at least a year behind schedule"? Just where are you dis-information amateurs getting your information anyway? FYI on the bottom 8 floors of icon resides 70 per cent of the concrete. Its no wander they are taking their time to make sure its being done right... and yes they are still pouring. I'm an owner in a Brisol Project. Say what you want but they deliver and fill a valuable niche in the market. Moreover, most everyone who's bought at TBOB and then sold has made money. Same with Soutshside in B'ham. There's so many bristol/construction experts on this blog they should start their own company. Oh I forgot...then they would actually have know something about development. Not just how to spread rumors.

[ATLBrain]

Methinks thou dost protest too much. I simply posed a question as I have admitted to knowing next to nothing about construction, and I am aware that this is by far Bristol's largest project to-date. As it turns out, Topcat gave the straightest answer on this thread (so thanks). Going back, I must admit that my question could have been construed as slanted (sorry!). I eagerly await the completion of Icon. However, there's still lingering doubt in my mind that Bristol can put up an attractive building that doesn't look as if it's clad in styrofoam. FWIW, the Icon renderings look nice.

[Jeeper12]

That's not true. Choaote construction has tons of experience both with high rises and condos. They are out of Atlana thew high rise capitol of the south. Not sure who's payroll you're on dude.

[CityHeart]

Once again I log into urbanplanet in hopes of reading useful information about one of Nashville's promising developments and once again I only find useless bickering about sources, rumors and personal opinions. I think I just contributed to my own complaint-oh well.

[Jeeper12]

Bristol's "lack of experience in big projects"? They are "at least a year behind schedule"? Just where are you dis-information amateurs getting your information anyway?

Well, right from the Icon website actually: http://www.iconinthegulch.com/press/sellout_041706.pdf

As you can see, about a year ago, several months into construction and after they sold all their units, they told everyone they would be done by the end of 2007. Their contractual deadline to finish within 24 months of going to contract (April 2006) is March 2008 (9 months from now). Since it generally takes about 10-12 months to finish out a 400 unit highrise once topped out, and they're still toiling on the 5th floor, maybe you can begin to see why the end of 2008 is starting to look like a best case scenario for Bristol, even to an "amatuer" .

I'm an owner in a Brisol Project. Say what you want but they deliver and fill a valuable niche in the market. Moreover, most everyone who's bought at TBOB and then sold has made money.

I don't think there's been much dispute on this thread as to whether early flippers in TBOB made money; timing is everything. Frankly, there has been more discussion at UP about whether the poor souls that bought from the flippers are in for a financial beating. Judging from the length of time the "for sale" and "for rent" signs have been hanging on TBOB balconies I'm not sure most of the existing owners at TBOB share your enthusiasm. If you have any doubt about how some of them feel just spend some time on TBOB and Velocity threads to get more up to speed; look for the tomcampion posts for starters.

[Hankster]

Here's a link to the Choate Constuction Company website. Pretty impressive, as far as I'm concerned. I have little doubt that they have all the talent necessary to build the Icon.

Choate Construction Company Website

[Jeeper12]

^Hankster, I don't think anyone suggested Choate was a bad company or lacked "talent". I think the discussion was more nuanced and related to what kind of high rise experience they've had. In only his or her 3rd post with us eatmorepasta stated emphatically that Choate had "tons of experience with high rises" before uttering an insult for me thinking otherwise. I'm sure you share my concern about folks posting factually inaccurate information, especailly with such conviction; most of us don't have the time or inclination to do the leg work necessary to verify these kind of things. And we shouldn't have to.

As an engineer, I'd hope the lack of a high rise anywhere on Choate's website wouldn't be lost on you. I would also think you'd have an appreciation for the challenges that construction companies, even good ones like Choate, often face getting the first few high rises successfully under their belt. As you must know, the means, methods and pace are different, and more complex, than with low rise buildings. And I think most experienced professionals would contend these challenges are only magnified when most of the other project team members (developer, architect, & MEP engineers) are ALSO without much or any high rise experience.

I know you're one of the few posters on this site that's fond of TBOB and more or less all things Bristol. But since you mentioned you are an engineer I found it surprising that you'd go to Choate's website and offer the board such a glowing appraisal that completely ignored the more technical point at issue. Of course, it's not a crime to see little or no value in high rise experience for a firm building a high rise, I've just never heard a professional engineer say it before.