Columbia in the media

[CorgiMatt]

I don't see why they'd simply change the plaque for Tillman. Why waste the money and not get rid of the statue all together? It seems like something that should go to the State Museum, or just be melted down. Is he really someone we want on a pedestal at the State House? Even if the plaque is accurate, it seems to me like you'd be saying: "this man represents hatred, and we like him for it".

While they're at it, they need to get rid of Clemson U. After all he was the reason it was founded and the reason the agricultural college didn't remain in southern Richland County in the area of the state he hated so much.

I don't think they make plaques that big.

I can tell you didn't major in English. I did and I don't waste words. I'll write it.

[GvilleSC]

Gville, I see you're a Clemson fan and I wholeheartedly agree with you about that Tillman's statue should be removed from the State House. I'm curious if you'd be in favor of renaming Tillman Hall at Clemson and Winthrop, too. I'm really not asking to be antagonistic, I'm curious how people at Clemson feel about that.

You're really making me think here... so, I'm going to do it out loud here: Tillman Hall is the most iconic building on Clemson's campus. But what's iconic about it? The bell tower, not the name. So, how important is the name really to the building? I'm not sure. I think there's lots of people who'd be opposed to a change because it has been known as Tillman Hall for so long. But would it really change anything? It would still be Clemson's "symbol", if you will, it would still house the 46 bells that keep time on campus, and It would still be home to the University's College of Education. I feel no connection to the man behind the name (maybe other than our feelings toward USC, haha kidding).

At the same time, when something is named, it is typically done so in a timely manner of their existence (unless their importance truly surpasses their lifetime, which I'd say is rare. e.g. Martin Luther King, Jr, George Washington- does his importance in leading this country to independence and 'starting' the government outweigh some moral decisions? I don't know, but I think you can follow my logic). So, it's almost like a history lesson. A name can typically, if you know something about the given person, help you to date a building or street, and can also serve as an indication of the times. Example: Greenville's new Federal Court House (when funding is found ) will be named after the late Governor Carroll Campbell. In 100 years, perhaps people will have learned about him in a SC history class and be able to figure out that this building was built around the current time period. They can look at his accomplishments and easily see that jobs were important to South Carolinians at the time of his leadership and therefore his name will find its way onto a structure. Tillman Hall could probably be dated, too, based on Ben Tillman's lifetime. I think it'd be easy to look at his record and find out that at the time of its naming, to South Carolinians, racial hatred was a shared feeling and his stance on the issue was not only accepted but hailed as a popular one (to some degree, maybe not quite as extreme).

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And then, you posted again, which really makes you question the stance you're taking. Because where do you stop? Who makes the cut and who does not? Which statues would stay on the grounds and which would go? And who's to say that "person A's" good accomplishments outweighs their bad judgement or controversial stance? I really don't know. But I'm really enjoying the thought provoking question at hand, and I think it's extremely interesting. I hope people will add to what's been said and continue the discussion.

[krazeeboi]

The issue over the naming of Tillman Hall at Winthrop has come up a few times, but I seriously, seriously doubt that anything will come of it.

As an African American, I must say that this can be somewhat of a sticky situation. You aren't going to see Blacks rallying to get George Washington's name off everything; it's not going to happen. The same could be said of other figures. Personally, I believe that morality transcends time and is not the result of popular consensus. I also realize that the way things generally work is by majority rule, with consideration of minority rights.

[waccamatt]

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And then, you posted again, which really makes you question the stance you're taking. Because where do you stop? Who makes the cut and who does not? Which statues would stay on the grounds and which would go? And who's to say that "person A's" good accomplishments outweighs their bad judgement or controversial stance? I really don't know. But I'm really enjoying the thought provoking question at hand, and I think it's extremely interesting. I hope people will add to what's been said and continue the discussion.

You're right, I posted again because what I first thought was an easy question, truly became a difficult question after a little more thought. At first thought I was like, get rid of all of the reminders of hate mongers on the State House grounds and around the city, but when you think about it; is getting rid of dreadful reminders of past transgressions the way to keep them from happening again? I really don't think so. I went to the King Day Rally at the State House today and Tillman's statue (and others) on the State House grounds were talked about in various speeches. It makes for good banter to talk about getting rid of what we don't like, but I don't see how it is possible to determine what we should really get rid of. This is going to be an interesting debate and, the more I think about it, the more I'm liking Mayor Bob's recommendation about putting more accurate markers on the statues at the State House. We might end up with the most interesting State House grounds in the country if this comes to fruition. Will Strom's statue mention that he used his position and stature to have intercourse with a 15 year old girl? In today's society he would be thrown in jail for the same action.

[Spartan]

There is a difference between framing facts in a positive manner and stating them in a way that changes the meaning behind his intentions. Tillman was a racist, and thats a fact. But then, so was most of the South and the entire United States for centuries. I think its important to draw a distinction between what we used to be and what we are today. Tillman represents a mindset that nobody agrees with today.

What did he do that warrants his statue being in existence? I can't find anything that he actually accomplished that warrants him having a statue other than serving as an elected official for a long time- and I would go so far as to suspect he maintained his position by creating fear. He is the man who shot the editor of The State after all. That said, the statue is there, so we way as well leave it. I think it should just say "Benjamin "Pitchfork" Tillman; Governor (years) US Senator (years)" thats all. If people want to know more, they can look it up.

[waccamatt]

I need to go back by there and see what's actually on the marker. Do you know if he ever served any time for shooting Gonzalez?

[sojay]

I think it would be a mistake in general to remove names and symbols and pretend they were not there. I think it's a much better idea to post information and maybe an official statement. This way they serve as history lessons. Except, the flag should be DEPICTED, not flown. The symbolism of flying a flag is much too strong. To wave a flag is sending a message that this is what we stand for.

[Spartan]

Ok, I know what I just said in my last post, but I think I'm going to take that back. I checked my SC Encyclopedia for some information on Tillman. I checked to see if he served time for shooting Gonzalez, and it turns out his son, James, killed Gonzalez. The apple didn't fall far from the tree, it seems. James Tillman was elected Lt. Gov in 1900. He shot unarmed editor of The State Mr Gonzalez in 1902, was arrested and went to trial but was ruled not guilty on self-defense. The State and other national papers "condemned the farce of his trial."

After reading about Ben Tillman, I learned that this guy was basically pure evil. The only reason he was continually elected is because at the time he was 1) against Republicans and elite Democrats, and 2) extremely pro-farmer, and since most South Carolinians probably fit into the poor farmer category after the Civil War, even more so during Reconstruction.

So, the following is a list of things that Tillman was in support of according to the South Carolina Encyclopedia:

• Farmers
  
• White supremacy
  
• Education reform (you should read this as: reform of higher education)
  
• Legislative appointment
  
• Lynching
  

The following is a list of things that Tillman was against according to the South Carolina Encyclopedia:

• Elitists
  
• South Carolina College (it produced "helpless beings" and was the elitist university of the South before the Civil War)
  
• The Citadel (it was a "military dude factory")
  
• Republicans (who worked to subordinate the Southern economy by raising taxes in exports and decrease pay for workers)
  
• Populists, who were in favor of black suffrage
  
• Railroads
  
• The state-chartered phosphate monopoly
  
• Black suffrage
  
• Female suffrage
  
• Lynching
  
• Monopolies in general
  
• US Imperialism [how much of that was going on in the late 1800s?]
  

Other notable things:

• He also charged elected leaders with corruption and malfeasance.
  
• He oversaw the establishment of Clemson College and Withrop College, but "remained less committed to the practice of higher education than to the principle of white supremacy."
  
• He refused federal aid for Clemson because it would require him to accept a proportional amount of aid for black education at Claflin.
  
• He established the state liquor monopoly
  
• He lead the Constitutional Convention of 1895 (the one that rewrote the Constitution we still use today)
  
• Under his constitution, man had to "own substantial property, prove their literacy, or demonstrate 'understanding' of the constitution in order to register to vote."
  
• He boasted that he "shot negroes and stuffed ballot boxes"
  

So what did he actually do? According to this text, during his last years he did bring home millions of federal military dollars to South Carolina. Other than that it does not go into any detail about what, if any, good he did for our state. It seems that he was the embodiment of backwards, bigoted, and retrogressive thinking. But it was all to protect the farmers.

I will have to mull this one over, but I think its worth facing the reality of who he was and not hiding behind a false plaque on a statue. If it needs to be changed then it should reflect the truth. But I think I would rather see a plaque that says:

Benjamin Ryan Tillman, Governor 1890 - 1894, US Senator 1895-1918

I am all for embracing the past, but I have to question making this man more well known than he needs to be when he didn't actually accomplish anything worth mentioning.

[waccamatt]

Thanks for the information, Spartan. I don't know where I got the idea that it was Ben that shot Gonzalez. I wonder if they have descendents still living in South Carolina? They might be too embarassed to admit it if they do still live here. I might try and find some SC History textbooks in use today. I'm curious how accurately we're teaching today's children about the transgressions of the past. I think this was all glossed over when I took SC History %^%^% years ago.

[Spartan]

You probably got that information from me. I thought it was Ben Tillman that shot Gonzalez until I read that. I would be interested to know if you find any of those current SC history books.

[CorgiMatt]

The Today Show was live in Columbia at Main and Gervais this morning. Lester Holt said it had to be the friendliest place on earth. The lady back in the studio in New York said it was a great place to live for four years and that she was jealous of Lester for being here. The State House looked its finest, framed by palmetto trees, and the crowd had First Citizens and the other buildings along Main Street as their backdrop. At one point they had a noise contest between the Columbia crowd and the New York crowd and Columbia's won.

[krazeeboi]

Does anyone know when Tillman's statue was first placed on Statehouse grounds?

Corgi, that's some good press for Columbia. I've seen a shot or two of Main Street as national media outlets covered the then upcoming primaries. The city will probably get double the press today with the Democratic primary occurring. And with that said, I'm off to cast my vote.

[waccamatt]

Corgi, that's really great exposure for Columbia and we got press coverage for 2 weeks because the 2 primaries weren't on the same day.

[CorgiMatt]

Did anyone who was watching the USC-Georgia game yesterday see the aerial views of downtown, the USC Greek Village and the statehouse, each at a different time when the broadcast returned from commercials? The downtown shot was awesome. It showed all of the dowtown core from a slight angle and not from too high up. They started from a certain height and gradually took in a wider view. It lasted long enough to peak some interest from people who were watching but have never been here. For the first time ever as far as I can remember, people actually saw that there's a city here, not just a university and capitol building. When they showed the Greek Village one of the commentators said, "It's beautiful!" The grass at the Greek Village and around the statehouse was just as green as it could be.

[lifer]

Columbia fares pretty well in this report -

http://bestcities.milkeninstitute.org/

[Spartan]

I caught the aerial of downtown.... it felt like it was up for about a minute. Anyway, it was a good exposure for the city.

[CorgiMatt]

Columbia got some great exposure last night on ESPN during the USC-LSU game. One of the commentators did his 90-second restaurant review. He critiqued the Blue Marlin's Shrimp'n Grits and said it was great. It showed a nice shot of people dining on the sidewalk under the railroad canopy. The commentator then said Columbia has lots of really good restaurants.

Later in the broadcast, after a commercial they showed the night-time shot of the downtown skyline with the Finlay Park fountain and those massive cypress trees in the foreground. You could hear the fontain loud and clear. The skyline was glistening.

[Spartan]

The skyline shot was awesome. It was great to hear him say the city is a great place for food.

Too bad Carolina lost though.

[803metlife]

I must say!!! Since we held the democratic primary this has been Columbia's year in the media. If someone never heard of Columbia they definetly know who we are now. I've seen columbia in the USA Today and CNN numerous times this year along.

[Spartan]

It also doesn't hurt that its the capital city, so media regularly flock there.

[Spartan]

Columbia looked great during the Carolina-Tennessee game tonight. I saw shots of the following:

• Skyline from Finlay Park (mistakenly referred to the fountain as being outside of the courthouse)
  
• Gervais St in the Vista
  
• Mac's on Main
  
• The Statehouse
  

Night shots are awesome. Go Cocks!

[CorgiMatt]

And at the very beginning of the game they showed an overview of the entire stadium with the skyline as a backdrop, the first time I've ever seen that much of the skyline in a shot of the stadium. Something tells me that someone in charge of public relations for Columbia tourism has made sure the national viewing audience sees more of Columbia and that the commentators have scripts promoting the Capital City after commercial breaks.

They said the fountain was outside of the "city museum." And the shot of the Vista showed traffic drivng up and down Gervais and rapidly criss-crossing intersections as far as the camera could see in the dark. I thought it was interesting that the commentator's comment was that the view was "one of the main streets in downtown Columbia, an area called the Vista."

The commentator also commented on how nice the weather was and said the atmosphere in Columbia is great.

[CorgiMatt]

Much more national press like this about Columbia and we can hang it up when it comes to more people moving here, as if we want anymore people here anyway with the job market the way it is.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...88.html?sub=new

[growingup15]

Much more national press like this about Columbia and we can hang it up when it comes to more people moving here, as if we want anymore people here anyway with the job market the way it is.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...88.html?sub=new

omg i read the report its hard to read without getting depressed to watch all these people lives falling apart and our govenor is not doing anything to help our state out.

[waccamatt]

Unemployment is not 14.1% in Columbia - where in the world did they get that figure from?