"Bum" Bashing

[gvsusean]

Schoon said it great.

I'd still wonder if the same people investing in Heartside are investing in keeping these mission in the neighborhood. Its either the fact that there's no other reasonable alternative or they haven't been as impact on the area as thought.

[jas49503]

I'd find that to hard to believe. No condo owner WANTS to be next to a homeless shelter...

[wolverine]

Oh, I'm definitely not against cities trying to help the homeless GRDad. I've done my full share of volunteer work at shelters and stuff like that. I think any opportunity a city has to help them out and get them off the streets is good. But that's helping not hurting.

I was a little worried people would try to throw that at me. The point I'm making here is homelessness is a complicated issue that has no simple resolution. So you just can't make them disappear just because you don't want them around. I'm willing to accept their existence (obnoxious or not) even though I don't like it.

As for the part about arresting them for bad behavior. Yes, I'd like to see them treated equally under the law, but realize that the system doesn't exactly work for them. The punishments for breaking public decency laws are far worse for us, because we actually have the money to pay the fines. We have our reputations to uphold. We have good records to maintain. The homeless on the other hand, really don't have anything to lose, except their own life. They are willing to overstep the boundaries. Breaking the law can work in their favor even. Maybe they'll get a hot meal and warm bed in a holding cell, but they will be back on the street the next day. I'm not saying we shouldn't arrest them because it's a waste of time and money. I'm just saying it's complicated.

[pr sc]

I don't know how anyone can read all of the posts here and not "get it" that if you want some kind of solution, you need to be a part of that solution. And, I don't think you can state for a fact that all of the homeless have never invested anything into this or that neighborhood. How do you know that? Some people get to a point in life where their salary no longer covers even meeger living expenses. What do you think happens to them when they must retire? They may have paid taxes all their working life and now they have nothing. There are many, many people in that situation. I know, there are some who just don't want to work. But you cannot throw them all in that same group.

[Rizzo]

I'd find that to hard to believe. No condo owner WANTS to be next to a homeless shelter...

[GRGyp]

Several posts here mention that missions should go out and find these people jobs or medical treatment to get them off the street. Missions indeed do this, but most of these "bums" are suffering from mild mental issues that prevent them from keeping a job, but are not serious enough to get them committed.

You cannot get a person with mild schizophrenia, dementia, etc... permently off the street, if you cannot prove they are a danger to themselves or others. The courts hands are tied in these cases because they can only send them to a mental institution temporarily. They end up getting released and most end up back on the street.

You can try to get them a job, but again, they suffer from mild cases of dementia and other mental disabilities, and so they don't possess the same value set as "sane" people. They end up not being reliable employess, so employers let them go or they just wander off in a confused state on their own never to return.

It's obvious people are pretty set in there views on the "bums", and so I'm not going to try to win anyone over to any side here. The argument, however, that finding them jobs and getting them committed is a solution that I have to say is full of holes. If society worked that way, they would be off the streets. It does not, however, and these people "slip through the cracks". They end up on the street as a result of having too many mental issues to keep a steady job and place of permanent residence, but sadly not enough mental issues to get them committed. It's a very pathetic catch-22 that our society currently has.

[jas49503]

I don't know how anyone can read all of the posts here and not "get it" that if you want some kind of solution, you need to be a part of that solution. And, I don't think you can state for a fact that all of the homeless have never invested anything into this or that neighborhood. How do you know that? Some people get to a point in life where their salary no longer covers even meeger living expenses. What do you think happens to them when they must retire? They may have paid taxes all their working life and now they have nothing. There are many, many people in that situation. I know, there are some who just don't want to work. But you cannot throw them all in that same group.

[pr sc]

I would guess that it goes beyond just not having a job or a poor paying job. even if you have a really crappy job you can still find a place to live, and buy food, and clothes. not that long ago I had an apartment(actually it was a room) in ann arbor for 200 dollars a month. even someone working part time for minimum wage can afford that. I would guess that homeless people give very little to the community but mostly it's because of the issues that landed them on the street. these people have lost everything including rational decision making ability. which generally precludes them from helping themselves beyond thier immediate needs. i.e. drugs, booze, food, shelter. also realize that this isn't a homogenous group of people and there may be outliers. when discussing groups you cannot include every exception to a statement. by necessity you paint a picture with broad generalizations. you may know a bum who didn't harrass people or who helped clean up a park. we aren't talking about these people, we are talking about the 99% of all the other bums out there.

[gvsusean]

You did not read what I wrote about the many who physically cannot work anymore? It happens, often.

[Veloise]

if they worked their whole life and are to old to work anymore (99% of bums that I see are much younger then this) wouldnt they be recieving social security? Granted probably not enough to live comfortably but def. enough to get off the streets.

[pr sc]

Thank you, Veloise. I know someone facing a situation where it may become impossible to work and, at present, what used to be a decent salary is barely enough to make ends meet. This person cannot work forever. However, happily in this case, there are very caring family members. If only that were the case for all.

[wolverine]

Several posts here mention that missions should go out and find these people jobs or medical treatment to get them off the street. Missions indeed do this, but most of these "bums" are suffering from mild mental issues that prevent them from keeping a job, but are not serious enough to get them committed.

You cannot get a person with mild schizophrenia, dementia, etc... permently off the street, if you cannot prove they are a danger to themselves or others. The courts hands are tied in these cases because they can only send them to a mental institution temporarily. They end up getting released and most end up back on the street.

You can try to get them a job, but again, they suffer from mild cases of dementia and other mental disabilities, and so they don't possess the same value set as "sane" people. They end up not being reliable employess, so employers let them go or they just wander off in a confused state on their own never to return.

It's obvious people are pretty set in there views on the "bums", and so I'm not going to try to win anyone over to any side here. The argument, however, that finding them jobs and getting them committed is a solution that I have to say is full of holes. If society worked that way, they would be off the streets. It does not, however, and these people "slip through the cracks". They end up on the street as a result of having too many mental issues to keep a steady job and place of permanent residence, but sadly not enough mental issues to get them committed. It's a very pathetic catch-22 that our society currently has.

[jas49503]

You did not read what I wrote about the many who physically cannot work anymore? It happens, often.

[winjer]

No wisdom comes from pretending this is a simple problem--it is indeed quite complicated. You can read about what some people in GR are doing to "solve" this problem, or collection of problems ("by the end of 2014"):

http://grahcoc.org/vision_general_info.php

[GR Jackson]

I think that it also needs to be said that for a long time the downtown areas were not a place that people wanted to develop. For around thirty years the neighborhoods lay stagnant so homeless people and others came into an area that no one wanted. Only in the last few years have people started working there, and it isn't like people are just going to move because buildings are being fixed up here and there. I agree that it is a complex situation, and if not done right a lot of resentment can arise.

[Beavis]

I just have to chime in. I am a 43-year old woman who was homeless in GR and Oklahoma on and off for 3+ years. I was in an extremely physically abusive marriage and fled to Tulsa, Oklahoma, to get the hell away from the psycho. Post-traumatic stress from the abuse caused my previous binge drinking to progress into full-fledged alcoholism. Thank God I never had children. I met alot of women on the streets who did. I didn't spend much time in shelters. Women on the street have to keep a pretty low profile because the danger of being assaulted sexually or otherwise is extremely high. I did have a backpacker tent among my supplies and would find a secluded camping spot outside of the downtown area to sleep along with a loaded pistol for protection. I took day labor jobs (hard physical labor) ate at soup kitchens, washed my clothes and myself either in the river or in truck stop restrooms when it was too cold outside. It was really hard to break free to the homeless trap with low pay, erratic work available, no phone number to put on job applications (cell phones were toys of the rich back then and cheap prepaid ones didn't exist). Eventually I was able to save enough for depost, 1st months rent and a phone, got into rehab and am 13 years sober, live alone with my cats in a gorgeous Heritage Hill apartment, work full-time from home, have great friends and family and thank God every day as soon as I open my eyes for these blessings. Sometimes it's hard to believe it's even real that I've come so far. I actually used to pray that God would just let me die. I came from an upper middle class background, college educated, good job. My point being most of us are really not that far away from being homeless - loss of a job, illness, death of the main income provider for the household can all spiral out of control very quickly.

I do volunteer work at Degage and through my church and many of these people just need a hand up to get back on their feet and I empathize with them. Some are truly mentally ill or disabled and can't work. However, I also know alot of these guys who simply don't want to take responsibility for themselves. They don't want to get treatment for addictions and have absolutely no interest and getting or keeping a job any longer than it takes to scrape up the money for more booze, drugs, or whatever they're into. Alot of these guys are my old drinking buddies and I've known them personally for years. There's nothing wrong with them physically and not too much mentally other than wanting to live with no societal restrictions or responsibilities. While reading portions of the Plan to End Homelessness by 2014, I have to wonder what the plan is for these guys? They aren't eligible for SSI or SSDI so are they just going to get free housing?

I am very good at handling panhandlers and deflecting them but I do sympathize with the folks on this board who have been harrassed. I think it's inexcusable regardless of the dire straights someone may be in. I actually think there should be laws passed against panhandling - or if there are laws on the books, they should be enforced. There are plenty of services in Heartside to meet the basic needs of food and shelter. I do know Degage sometimes has to turn women away from their shelter due to lack of space but typically in these cases, they will find alternate arrangements for them, i.e. a temporary hotel stay paid for various social service agencies / churches and caseworkers will have them come in the next day to do emergency stabilization so they're not physically having to sleep on the street. In my time on the street, I never panhandled, never robbed anyone or any place of business, never prostituted.

Just had to add my perspective as someone who lived it.

[disconsolate]

i'll buy a meal if someone needs one, but i don't dole out money (it can always be used for alcohol or illegal drugs). i don't ridicule those who are homeless, and i respect their space/personal belongings.

[mejane]

Thank you, Beavis.