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16 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

That's Jeff Barrett, he used to work with Rob Bliss. He op-eds for a bunch of media outlets now, like Washington Times (?)

I found the article lacking (and downright untruthful) in a lot of ways. There are over 16,000 small businesses in the Grand Rapids area, it's pretty lazy IMO to focus on the Devos family. Especially if you're from here.

Well Dick sure enjoyed it. He shared it on LinkedIn yesterday.

Also, what ever happened to Rob Bliss? I haven't heard about that guy in years.

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8 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Well Dick sure enjoyed it. He shared it on LinkedIn yesterday.

Also, what ever happened to Rob Bliss? I haven't heard about that guy in years.

He lives in New York now, he was back in town during the holidays. You haven't seen his viral videos about homelessness and other topics? 

Yeah I bet Dick liked it, lol.  Even the title of the article is wrong, it's not one of the fastest growing cities in the country; not even one of the fastest growing metro areas. The jobs market is one of the fastest growing but the population is only moderately growing. 

 

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1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

He lives in New York now, he was back in town during the holidays. You haven't seen his viral videos about homelessness and other topics? 

Yeah I bet Dick liked it, lol.  Even the title of the article is wrong, it's not one of the fastest growing cities in the country; not even one of the fastest growing metro areas. The jobs market is one of the fastest growing but the population is only moderately growing. 

 

Right. I see some of the growth in Florida and just shake my head in disbelief. According to a NatGeo post on Instagram a few weeks ago, people are moving into Florida at a rate of 1,000 people per day.  And here we rejoice in a metro area growth of approximately 75,000 in 8 years. Let's not make our growth more than it is. We're growing moderately in a state that had shrunk, followed by stagnation, followed by very slow growth. 

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Eh, Grand Rapids is still growing faster than average.  It’s outpacing some cities you might not expect like Tucson.  I don’t think anyone expects it to post sunbelt numbers.  It’s the fastest growing Midwestern metro that’s not a state capitol, or home to a major research university.  The fact that it’s posting the numbers that it is, should still be something of note IMO.  The term “one of the fastest growing” is of course subjective.   Given that there are almost 400 MSAs in the country it’s definitely in an upper echelon for growth.  I understand not wanting to over state what’s going on here, though I don’t think we should understate it either.

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1 hour ago, wingbert said:

Did he settle his debts before bolting?

Yep. Not sure if it was before he moved (he lived in Chicago for a bit) or after he moved. 

2 hours ago, MJLO said:

Eh, Grand Rapids is still growing faster than average.  It’s outpacing some cities you might not expect like Tucson.  I don’t think anyone expects it to post sunbelt numbers.  It’s the fastest growing Midwestern metro that’s not a state capitol, or home to a major research university.  The fact that it’s posting the numbers that it is, should still be something of note IMO.  The term “one of the fastest growing” is of course subjective.   Given that there are almost 400 MSAs in the country it’s definitely in an upper echelon for growth.  I understand not wanting to over state what’s going on here, though I don’t think we should understate it either.

I'm being a bit harsh on the author, but it's a total puff piece without much substance (with many inaccuracies). Otherwise, whatevs. :)

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41 minutes ago, wingbert said:

GR is great but this list says we don’t even make the top 10...

San Jose to Remain Nation’s Hottest Housing Market

But wait! Trulia, which is owned by Zillow, says we are in the top 10 hottest housing markets! Something's amiss. :) 

https://fox17online.com/2018/11/29/grand-rapids-housing-market-named-top-10-cities-to-watch-in-2019/

Forbes says that Realtor.com says that we're #2!  We're #2! We're #2!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenparis/2019/01/16/realtor-coms-hot-housing-market-picks/#4cdfc0e83903

These lists...

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10 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Right. I see some of the growth in Florida and just shake my head in disbelief. According to a NatGeo post on Instagram a few weeks ago, people are moving into Florida at a rate of 1,000 people per day.  And here we rejoice in a metro area growth of approximately 75,000 in 8 years. Let's not make our growth more than it is. We're growing moderately in a state that had shrunk, followed by stagnation, followed by very slow growth. 

A little off topic but I read an article about possible migration due to climate change and Florida is expected to lose the most. The article said there is already real estate speculation in areas of Miami based on elevation. Pretty interesting to think about. Not 5 years from now, but even a slight change in sea level will change my winter vacation plans. Or retirement plans. :) :)

Not to mention the red tide that is totally man made due to poor septic system rules and over fertilization. I like Florida, but I sure wouldn’t be investing my life savings down there.

Joe

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12 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

A little off topic but I read an article about possible migration due to climate change and Florida is expected to lose the most. The article said there is already real estate speculation in areas of Miami based on elevation. Pretty interesting to think about. Not 5 years from now, but even a slight change in sea level will change my winter vacation plans. Or retirement plans. :) :)

Not to mention the red tide that is totally man made due to poor septic system rules and over fertilization. I like Florida, but I sure wouldn’t be investing my life savings down there.

Joe

Likely an accurate portrayal of what the future holds. I too really like Florida. Its beaches are amazing and it is a welcome escape from the doldrums of winter in Michigan. However, it won't be long before those beaches are routinely under water at high tide. Miami has seen sunny day flooding increase 400% in the last decade. I would imagine that it is only a matter of time before banks stop doing 30 year mortgages knowing that the homes will literally be under water within that period of time. Then the center of the state is growing so much that it is becoming a concrete jungle. I always imagined myself retiring there, but something tells me that unless our current trajectory is stymied, Florida will be nothing but a cement and swamp laden wasteland in the next 30 years.

Combine that Florida problem with the southwest running out of water and our winters here gradually getting warmer and I would not at all be surprised to see Michigan be a destination in the next 30 years. Summers are amazing, the winters will be more tolerable, and we have an abundance of fresh water. However, the kind of growth we see may be as unsustainable as the growth Florida has today. 

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3 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Likely an accurate portrayal of what the future holds. I too really like Florida. Its beaches are amazing and it is a welcome escape from the doldrums of winter in Michigan. However, it won't be long before those beaches are routinely under water at high tide. Miami has seen sunny day flooding increase 400% in the last decade. I would imagine that it is only a matter of time before banks stop doing 30 year mortgages knowing that the homes will literally be under water within that period of time. Then the center of the state is growing so much that it is becoming a concrete jungle. I always imagined myself retiring there, but something tells me that unless our current trajectory is stymied, Florida will be nothing but a cement and swamp laden wasteland in the next 30 years.

Combine that Florida problem with the southwest running out of water and our winters here gradually getting warmer and I would not at all be surprised to see Michigan be a destination in the next 30 years. Summers are amazing, the winters will be more tolerable, and we have an abundance of fresh water. However, the kind of growth we see may be as unsustainable as the growth Florida has today. 

I foresee the winters here getting really miserable, like a lot of freezing rain like we had a few days ago vs snow. In fact, will we see such a change in weather patterns that we no longer get lake-effect snow here? If warm air from the South keeps the arctic cold Canadian blasts from descending, which is the main cause of lake effect, it might happen. 

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Another day another list. On another note, I didn't know Oklahoma City has a canal in its downtown, called Bricktown Canal. Or maybe I did know that?

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/up-and-coming-cities-in-us-2019

Maybe these lists ARE informative to people who don't live in GR. 

oklahoma-city-oklahoma-okc-bricktown-can

 

Bricktown-Entertainment-District_Canal_1

 

 

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42 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Another day another list. On another note, I didn't know Oklahoma City has a canal in its downtown, called Bricktown Canal. Or maybe I did know that?

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/up-and-coming-cities-in-us-2019

Maybe these lists ARE informative to people who don't live in GR. 

 

I can appreciate a list where they use writers with bylines and actually bother to write a little something about the towns they’re featuring.  Certainly more informative than the “mindless stat” lists we see most of the time.

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On 1/16/2019 at 8:57 PM, joeDowntown said:

A little off topic but I read an article about possible migration due to climate change and Florida is expected to lose the most. The article said there is already real estate speculation in areas of Miami based on elevation. Pretty interesting to think about. Not 5 years from now, but even a slight change in sea level will change my winter vacation plans. Or retirement plans. :) :)

Not to mention the red tide that is totally man made due to poor septic system rules and over fertilization. I like Florida, but I sure wouldn’t be investing my life savings down there.

Joe

 

On 1/16/2019 at 10:48 AM, GRLaker said:

Right. I see some of the growth in Florida and just shake my head in disbelief. According to a NatGeo post on Instagram a few weeks ago, people are moving into Florida at a rate of 1,000 people per day.  And here we rejoice in a metro area growth of approximately 75,000 in 8 years. Let's not make our growth more than it is. We're growing moderately in a state that had shrunk, followed by stagnation, followed by very slow growth. 

Look at the favorable tailwinds in Florida though. No state income tax, demand for wealthy Americans to retire in warmer climates, steady supply of unskilled labor provided by immigration/migration, relatively recessionary proof service industries, etc. 

I'm also guessing we'll see a collapse in Miami property values much sooner before sea level rise actually threatens properties. From what I understand, bridges in Miami are built very low and are already hampering yacht access into some of the inland waterways.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .  Also, insurance companies have to be getting a little antsy at insuring 30 year loans... 

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2 hours ago, kwl said:

 

Look at the favorable tailwinds in Florida though. No state income tax, demand for wealthy Americans to retire in warmer climates, steady supply of unskilled labor provided by immigration/migration, relatively recessionary proof service industries, etc. 

I'm also guessing we'll see a collapse in Miami property values much sooner before sea level rise actually threatens properties. From what I understand, bridges in Miami are built very low and are already hampering yacht access into some of the inland waterways.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .  Also, insurance companies have to be getting a little antsy at insuring 30 year loans... 

The oldest baby boomers though, which have been fueling a lot of the growth in the South, are now 83 (born in 1946). The youngest are about 55 years old.

In 10 years Baby Boomers are going to start dropping like flies in large numbers, especially with life expectancies in the US decreasing (!). And a lot of Baby Boomers move south to actively retire, not really to move into nursing homes, so the growth slowdown in the South may actually start earlier than 10 years from now. That's why there's an explosion of nursing facilities in West Michigan, with more coming, for ailing parents to be close to the "kids" (adult 40 somethings). 

In essence my prediction is the astronomical growth in the South (retirement destinations like Florida and Arizona) will be starting to slow dramatically in the mid 2020's. Georgia, Texas and the Carolinas will continue to boom though from Northeast transplants for work and lower taxes. 

 

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Van Andel Arena was named the #3 venue of its size in the U.S. (10,000 - 15,000) for 2018 and Devos Performance Hall was named #15 in the world for its size (2000 - 5000) for gross receipts in 2018. 

https://vanandelarena.com/news/devos-performance-hall-van-andel-arena®-among-busiest-venues-2018

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20 hours ago, kwl said:

 

Look at the favorable tailwinds in Florida though. No state income tax, demand for wealthy Americans to retire in warmer climates, steady supply of unskilled labor provided by immigration/migration, relatively recessionary proof service industries, etc. 

I'm also guessing we'll see a collapse in Miami property values much sooner before sea level rise actually threatens properties. From what I understand, bridges in Miami are built very low and are already hampering yacht access into some of the inland waterways.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .  Also, insurance companies have to be getting a little antsy at insuring 30 year loans... 

And on top of the retirees flocking there, I have been noticing quite a few in my generation moving there as well. Just in my current and former circle, I can think of 11 off the top of my head that moved from Grand Rapids and Detroit to Orlando and Tampa in the last 5 years and are loving it. And I agree on the future real estate prospects for Miami. It won't be long. Like I said in a previous post, they have already seen an increase of 400% in sunny day flooding in the last decade. The problems have already begun. 

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