People talking about Grand Rapids

[MJLO]

54 minutes ago, The ATX said:

You made some good posts in that thread.  But I locked it because it wasn't going to get better.  On the positive side of things, we learned that Grand Rapids does have a national Rep for good beer.   Usually there is a lot of support for Rust Belt and Northeastern cities on SSP, and it's the Sun Belt cities that usually get trashed.  So I don't quite understand some of the anti GR posts that  were made.

The poster SSP17, and the account immediately created after my first post AKIP are the same guy.  I've made an enemy out of him when I've had to stand up to some of his toxic behaviors in the past.  He has good days and bad,  and honestly can be one of the most well thought out individuals when he wants to be.  I believe he also has an account on here based on what he's said on the other website.  Though if he does his style here is very different.   I'm sad you closed the thread, it didn't seem that it was going that bad even with people calling out some of the trolling.  I was going to post more numbers.  

I think you should consider reopening it and giving it another few posts to see where it goes.  It may just fizzle on it's own.    Don't be afraid to let people talk trash about GR  Whether they do it on that discussion forum, or another, or in person it won't affect the momentum in the city.  I also think as mods if we aren't afraid to let the trolls trash talk  other places, say for instance Sunbelt cities, then in fairness we have to be prepared when they do it to a city we like  It creates an opportunity to show what the actual numbers say compared to assumptions, and my nerd ass will always have numbers for them.

The below screenshot shows the growth for the African American demographic in the city and inner ring suburbs, as well as the metro area at large.  The city of Grand Rapids IS seeing a decline in it's African American population, but mostly they are simply moving over the border to Kentwood, and Wyoming.   I also think it's pretty clear that a lot of this attrition is due to gentrification in city neighborhoods.   I'm a white guy, I can't speak to the social or economic conditions for  the community, I can't tell you if they are improving, and I would be a moron to even attempt to.   I can tell you that the AA community at large is still gaining population in W. Michigan.  Feel free to copy and use this chart where you see fit.   The numbers are taken directly from the census' fact finder website. 

[GRLaker]

3 hours ago, MJLO said:

The poster SSP17, and the account immediately created after my first post AKIP are the same guy.  I've made an enemy out of him when I've had to stand up to some of his toxic behaviors in the past.  He has good days and bad,  and honestly can be one of the most well thought out individuals when he wants to be.  I believe he also has an account on here based on what he's said on the other website.  Though if he does his style here is very different.   I'm sad you closed the thread, it didn't seem that it was going that bad even with people calling out some of the trolling.  I was going to post more numbers.  

I think you should consider reopening it and giving it another few posts to see where it goes.  It may just fizzle on it's own.    Don't be afraid to let people talk trash about GR  Whether they do it on that discussion forum, or another, or in person it won't affect the momentum in the city.  I also think as mods if we aren't afraid to let the trolls trash talk  other places, say for instance Sunbelt cities, then in fairness we have to be prepared when they do it to a city we like  It creates an opportunity to show what the actual numbers say compared to assumptions, and my nerd ass will always have numbers for them.

The below screenshot shows the growth for the African American demographic in the city and inner ring suburbs, as well as the metro area at large.  The city of Grand Rapids IS seeing a decline in it's African American population, but mostly they are simply moving over the border to Kentwood, and Wyoming.   I also think it's pretty clear that a lot of this attrition is due to gentrification in city neighborhoods.   I'm a white guy, I can't speak to the social or economic conditions for  the community, I can't tell you if they are improving, and I would be a moron to even attempt to.   I can tell you that the AA community at large is still gaining population in W. Michigan.  Feel free to copy and use this chart where you see fit.   The numbers are taken directly from the census' fact finder website. 

He created another account to defend his own beliefs that no one else backs? That is.....not normal. 

[GRDadof3]

4 hours ago, MJLO said:

The poster SSP17, and the account immediately created after my first post AKIP are the same guy.  I've made an enemy out of him when I've had to stand up to some of his toxic behaviors in the past.  He has good days and bad,  and honestly can be one of the most well thought out individuals when he wants to be.  I believe he also has an account on here based on what he's said on the other website.  Though if he does his style here is very different.   I'm sad you closed the thread, it didn't seem that it was going that bad even with people calling out some of the trolling.  I was going to post more numbers.  

I think you should consider reopening it and giving it another few posts to see where it goes.  It may just fizzle on it's own.    Don't be afraid to let people talk trash about GR  Whether they do it on that discussion forum, or another, or in person it won't affect the momentum in the city.  I also think as mods if we aren't afraid to let the trolls trash talk  other places, say for instance Sunbelt cities, then in fairness we have to be prepared when they do it to a city we like  It creates an opportunity to show what the actual numbers say compared to assumptions, and my nerd ass will always have numbers for them.

The below screenshot shows the growth for the African American demographic in the city and inner ring suburbs, as well as the metro area at large.  The city of Grand Rapids IS seeing a decline in it's African American population, but mostly they are simply moving over the border to Kentwood, and Wyoming.   I also think it's pretty clear that a lot of this attrition is due to gentrification in city neighborhoods.   I'm a white guy, I can't speak to the social or economic conditions for  the community, I can't tell you if they are improving, and I would be a moron to even attempt to.   I can tell you that the AA community at large is still gaining population in W. Michigan.  Feel free to copy and use this chart where you see fit.   The numbers are taken directly from the census' fact finder website. 

That is interesting. And these are just African American stats? Not all minority groups? 

I personally know 3 African American families who moved out of the city of GR to the burbs for better schools for their kids. This was at least 5 years ago though so I don't know if that momentum has changed with the advancements at GRPS. 

[MJLO]

2 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

That is interesting. And these are just African American stats? Not all minority groups? 

I personally know 3 African American families who moved out of the city of GR to the burbs for better schools for their kids. This was at least 5 years ago though so I don't know if that momentum has changed with the advancements at GRPS. 

Just the stats for African Americans.  Using the census bureau fact finder website, and only using the line item listed as "black alone ",  It does not account for those who are multi-racial either.   I redid the numbers for the inner ring and metro area to include Latino's, Asians, and White people.  The OMB recently realigned the GR metro, removed Barry County, and added Ionia County back in.  You will note that Latino's constitute the largest minority group in the Grand Rapids metro area, as they have for more than a decade.   Asians represent the largest exponentially increasing demographic, but the smallest number.    Notice that each minority group is increasing in number, in both the inner ring, and the metro at large.  Also note that the numbers for the metro at large are increasing at a greater rate than the inner ring.  This means that the largely whiter outer ring areas of the metro are becoming more diverse.  I imagine that if I opened this study up to more municipalities we'd see it in certain communities and not others.   Blacks represent the smallest percentage increase, but  are still increasing.  Also note that whites represent the largest numerical increase in the metro area, but the smallest percentage increase. 

[GRDadof3]

19 hours ago, MJLO said:

Just the stats for African Americans.  Using the census bureau fact finder website, and only using the line item listed as "black alone ",  It does not account for those who are multi-racial either.   I redid the numbers for the inner ring and metro area to include Latino's, Asians, and White people.  The OMB recently realigned the GR metro, removed Barry County, and added Ionia County back in.  You will note that Latino's constitute the largest minority group in the Grand Rapids metro area, as they have for more than a decade.   Asians represent the largest exponentially increasing demographic, but the smallest number.    Notice that each minority group is increasing in number, in both the inner ring, and the metro at large.  Also note that the numbers for the metro at large are increasing at a greater rate than the inner ring.  This means that the largely whiter outer ring areas of the metro are becoming more diverse.  I imagine that if I opened this study up to more municipalities we'd see it in certain communities and not others.   Blacks represent the smallest percentage increase, but  are still increasing.  Also note that whites represent the largest numerical increase in the metro area, but the smallest percentage increase. 

AKIPS posted this article, which I find is interesting.

https://www.woodtv.com/news/target-8/50-years-after-grand-rapids-riot-black-poverty-worse_20180503053837699/1156715997

And looking at your stats, it makes sense now as to why the percentage of African Americans in poverty is "growing" percentage-wise. As African Americans in the city become more affluent (or go off to college), they then are moving out of the city. The ones left behind are what the Urban League calls "Urban by necessity," and basically can't afford to move. Just from your data alone, 2588 African Americans moved out of Grand Rapids from 2010 - 2016. Wyoming and Kentwood in the meantime picked up about 4000 AA residents.

They also compare it to Detroit and Flint. I wonder how many GRPS students go on to college vs Detroit and Flint students? 

 

 

[GRDadof3]

https://mibiz.com/item/26206-regional-planning-needed-as-west-michigan-grows,-economic-developers-say

At least one national site selector believes Grand Rapids’ current growth path appears poised for further acceleration.

Paige Webster, the president of Phoenix-based consulting firm Webster Global Site Selectors, says Grand Rapids is on track to “be kind of the next Austin.”

[The ATX]

That article mentioned Austin 14 times which might be a little excessive for an article about Grand Rapids.  But GR's new City Manager is from Austin, so maybe the comparison will pan out. 

[GRLaker]

Hopefully we start to see some Austin quality architecture... 

[Allison Slater]

I wouldn't hold any breath

[GRDadof3]

Didn't know where to put this, and didn't feel like it needed its own thread, but this article's reporter seems to be missing a very obvious reason (or maybe a couple of reasons) for this "inequity" in development support:

https://www.mlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/10/8286c253d67310/grand-rapids-third-ward-being.html\

Grand Rapids' Third Ward being left behind in economic development

GRAND RAPIDS, MI -- As Grand Rapids has experienced strong economic growth in recent years, some communities have been left behind.

The lack of economic opportunities is more significant in the city's Third Ward, according to a recent study.

 

[Pattmost20]

11 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Didn't know where to put this, and didn't feel like it needed its own thread, but this article's reporter seems to be missing a very obvious reason (or maybe a couple of reasons) for this "inequity" in development support:

https://www.mlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/10/8286c253d67310/grand-rapids-third-ward-being.html\

Grand Rapids' Third Ward being left behind in economic development

GRAND RAPIDS, MI -- As Grand Rapids has experienced strong economic growth in recent years, some communities have been left behind.

The lack of economic opportunities is more significant in the city's Third Ward, according to a recent study.

 

I saw this posted on the Salon and everyone was getting mad about it. The same people who fought tooth and nail to keep development dollars out of the Madison and Hall area (Amplify GR). Whether you think Amplify GR is a good idea or not, seems a bit odd to oppose it and then complain about the lack of development.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Pattmost20

[GRDadof3]

12 minutes ago, Pattmost20 said:

I saw this posted on the Salon and everyone was getting mad about it. The same people who fought tooth and nail to keep development dollars out of the Madison and Hall area (Amplify GR). Whether you think Amplify GR is a good idea or not, seems a bit odd to oppose it and then complain about the lack of development.

Plus development support FOLLOWS a project, it doesn't lead out in front of projects. ie, you have to be a developer with  a project and then you go to the city to ask for development support. 

Not to mention the Third Ward is predominantly residential neighborhoods with not a lot of opportunities for infill. And like you mentioned, the infill ideas have been met with a lot of resistance.  You can't make a logical comparison to the Third Ward, which encompasses most of downtown. Or First Ward which has all of that available land on the West Side. 

Have there been any development ideas presented for the Third Ward that were turned down for development support from the city? I can't seem to recall any. A big one in the Second Ward that was shot down was the Keeler Building proposal. 

I wouldn't attempt to logically dissect this on the Salon. They'll tear you apart.

 

[WMrapids]

Well, they’re still trying to link together Spectrum Health, the DeVos family, Trump and the Russians. Wasn’t sure where to put this or what it means for their image.

https://www.vox.com/2018/10/9/17953560/mueller-trump-russia-news-alfa-bank-psy-group

[GRDadof3]

How low can the industrial vacancy rate go in West Michigan?

October 22, 2018 | Dan Rafter

How strong was the industrial market in the West Michigan region in the third quarter? NAI Wisinski of West Michigan, in its latest report, said that the industrial vacancy rate stood at 1.6 percent during the quarter.

https://www.rejournals.com/how-low-can-the-industrial-vacancy-rate-go-in-west-michigan-20181022

[GRDadof3]

Watch out here come the millennials!

Michigan cities top list of best places for millennials to visit in 2019

http://s.mlive.com/Kj5nMPR

 

[RegalTDP]

4 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Watch out here come the millennials!

Michigan cities top list of best places for millennials to visit in 2019

http://s.mlive.com/Kj5nMPR

I know we here at UP know better than to invest a whole lot in website rankings, but I couldn't resist taking a look at the actual study and its methodology.

GR's strong showing was buoyed by its high scores in the Food & Drink (9.58 out of 10) and Accomodation Affordability (9.72 out of 10).  I was pretty impressed by GR's Food & Drink score... Until I saw the methodology:

Quote

Food and Drink Score: We created the food and drink score using online menus available on Yelp. We researched the average price of one portion of avocado toast and one regular latte at restaurants in Yelp’s $$ category. The city with the cheapest average prices for one portion of avocado toast and a regular latte was awarded a maximum score of 10, and every other city was awarded a score based on the equation above.

C'mon man... Really? 

Edited November 26, 2018 by RegalTDP

[GRLaker]

15 hours ago, RegalTDP said:

I know we here at UP know better than to invest a whole lot in website rankings, but I couldn't resist taking a look at the actual study and its methodology.

GR's strong showing was buoyed by its high scores in the Food & Drink (9.58 out of 10) and Accomodation Affordability (9.72 out of 10).  I was pretty impressed by GR's Food & Drink score... Until I saw the methodology:

C'mon man... Really? 

[wingbert]

16 hours ago, RegalTDP said:

I know we here at UP know better than to invest a whole lot in website rankings, but I couldn't resist taking a look at the actual study and its methodology.

GR's strong showing was buoyed by its high scores in the Food & Drink (9.58 out of 10) and Accomodation Affordability (9.72 out of 10).  I was pretty impressed by GR's Food & Drink score... Until I saw the methodology:

C'mon man... Really? 

Did they cross reference with sales of beard conditioner and then weight the average against sales of thick eyeglass frames sold with plain glass lenses?

[walker]

I guess this just shows that I’m an old man and not a millennial.  I know what toast is and I know what avocado is but I’d never heard of avocado toast before let alone the best cheapest place to buy it.  If it wasn’t for Google I still wouldn’t know:

Edited November 27, 2018 by walker
because I typed millennium instead of millennial

[mpchicago]

11 minutes ago, walker said:

I guess this just shows that I’m an old man and not a millennium, I know what toast is and I know what avocado is but I’d never heard of avocado toast before let alone the best cheapest place to buy it.  If it wasn’t for Google, I still wouldn’t know:

 

I'm not a millennial, but I like to play one on weekends. Should I be embarrassed to say that I like Avacado Toast?  But I guess I pretty much like anything on toast.   Has anyone ever tried hard boiled eggs, hummus, and olive tapenade on toast?  

[destijl]

Another 'take with a grain of salt' ranking.

https://magazine.realtor/daily-news/2019/01/14/7-safest-most-affordable-cities-in-america

[Sparty97]

1 hour ago, destijl said:

Another 'take with a grain of salt' ranking.

https://magazine.realtor/daily-news/2019/01/14/7-safest-most-affordable-cities-in-america

The average home list price is $280k?  I don't work in the industry, but that seems higher than I expected.

[GRDadof3]

14 minutes ago, Sparty97 said:

The average home list price is $280k?  I don't work in the industry, but that seems higher than I expected.

That does seem high. The average (not median) home sales price for 2018 was about $230,000. Latest year-end stats. 

https://www.grar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Kent-12-2018.pdf

[GVSUChris]

Another day, another article. 

https://www.inc.com/jeff-barrett/why-grand-rapids-is-one-of-fastest-growing-cities-in-america-a-hotbed-for-entrepreneurs.html

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, GVSUChris said:

Another day, another article. 

https://www.inc.com/jeff-barrett/why-grand-rapids-is-one-of-fastest-growing-cities-in-america-a-hotbed-for-entrepreneurs.html

That's Jeff Barrett, he used to work with Rob Bliss. He op-eds for a bunch of media outlets now, like Washington Times (?)

I found the article lacking (and downright untruthful) in a lot of ways. There are over 16,000 small businesses in the Grand Rapids area, it's pretty lazy IMO to focus on the Devos family. Especially if you're from here.