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minimum wages


andyfried

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Is that a question or a statement, or both?

A couple of additional details on that stat would be helpful.

- How many of those households are one wage earner?

- How many of those households are retired individuals?

- How many of those households are individuals working part time, perhaps going to school?

- How many of those households are on unemployment or underemployed?

I still don't think it is as simple as looking at the income distribution and concluding that we need to have a higher minimum wage. It's good information though.

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The first increase in the minimum wage in ten years goes into effect today, with the minimum wage rising from $5.15 to $5.85 per hour. Two other increases are planned over the next two years to bring the minimum wage to $7.25 per hour. It was noted that approximately 4.3% of the workforce will see a direct increase as a result of these increases.

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^ exactly... and how is 4.3% of the workforce benefiting from this going to be a "burden on businesses" (to quote an earlier post of yours) ??? seems like a meager burden that is far outweighed by the positives it will generate in the lives of people who earn minimum wage. i've said it before - if your a small business owner and can't afford to make changes to pay out the new minimum wage... then i guess your business won't make it. i would argue that it shouldn't survive... i'm sure when child labor laws were passed in this country - some companies went under. oh well, @ least now that we have nafta the uber-capitalist can go overseas to exploit the human worker.

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Keeping the minimum wage up to date to reflect for increases in real costs is a good thing, I won't dispute that. I also do not think doing so is a burden to business. However, I still contend that placing artificial floors on wages that are higher than what they "should" be is not a good policy. The trick is figuring out where that level lies. I completely disagree with the notion that the minimum wage should be $10/hour. Yes, that is good in the short run for those making less than that amount, but what is the long-term result of such a policy? Higher prices? A rise in unemployment? A higher percentage of people living at or below the poverty level? More jobs being shipped overseas? You can make an argument (and a counter-argument, I suppose) for each of these.

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^Have any of those happened in other countries when a living wage was instituted? Perhaps to some extent, but it has not been the economy-crippling issue many people seem to predict. As it stands now, the US has bigger problems with outsourcing, inflation, and poverty than many countries that have mandated a living wage.

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Those on the right end of the political spectrum make two hypocritical arguments.

1) On one side of the coin, they argue that raising the minimum wage would cause a huge problem for business by creating a burden of spending more money than the organization can handle.

2) On the other side of the coin, they claim that such a small percent of the workforce would be affected that it wouldn't lift people up and create better living conditions.

This shows they don't understand what comes out of their own mouths, and for all I'm concerned is the only thing in this "debate" that matters. When you make such hypocritical statements that a company would be spending so much more money that they'd all go bankrupt, then turn around and say no one would benefit because almost no one would be affected it pretty much nullifies their own argument.

The reality is that right wingers will say anything to prove their personal ideology and refuse to look at facts, figures, and statistics. Its kind of like a fundamentalist preacher and his followers ignorantly following their heart instead of mind.

I'm glad not to subscribe to either far right or far left ideology.

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Those on the right end of the political spectrum make two hypocritical arguments.

1) On one side of the coin, they argue that raising the minimum wage would cause a huge problem for business by creating a burden of spending more money than the organization can handle.

2) On the other side of the coin, they claim that such a small percent of the workforce would be affected that it wouldn't lift people up and create better living conditions.

This shows they don't understand what comes out of their own mouths, and for all I'm concerned is the only thing in this "debate" that matters. When you make such hypocritical statements that a company would be spending so much more money that they'd all go bankrupt, then turn around and say no one would benefit because almost no one would be affected it pretty much nullifies their own argument.

The reality is that right wingers will say anything to prove their personal ideology and refuse to look at facts, figures, and statistics. Its kind of like a fundamentalist preacher and his followers ignorantly following their heart instead of mind.

I'm glad not to subscribe to either far right or far left ideology.

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I agree that raising the minimum wage would not cause a huge problem for business, but do you actually think that doing so will "lift people up"? Come on, it amounts to a token hand out. No one's life is going to change because they get an additional $2 per hour. Why not focus energy on the causes of poverty rather than trying to slap a band-aid on a much larger problem.
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are you serious? we're talking an extra $4,000 or so a year for a full time worker. that may not be life changing to some on here, but, if your working full time now @ $5.15 (that's only a little over 10k a year) - i would say it's more than a drop in the bucket.... it could be life changing.
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It's probably less that $3,000 a year after taxes, and it's better than nothing (assuming you don't lose your job for being under qualified for a $7.25/hour position), but my point is you still have the fundamental issue of being on the low wrung of the earnings ladder, and you are probably still considered as living in poverty, and assuming that prices go up as well, you may not be much better off. I'm sorry if this comes across as being cold.
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Cinco, the debate in America is whether we should have pure unregulated capitalism in a true dog-eat-dog competitive nature or whether we should have capitalism with safety nets. Moderates want some safety nets, but not as many as those on the left. But the number of communists in America equals almost nothing. None of us want that, yet that tired old Red Scare tactic is brought up again and again.

Right wingers try to frame the debate to where they are the "only" capitalists, while the opposition is nothing more than Soviet communism.

They frame this debate in this way so they can keep it a simple-stupid argument. More government = bad, less government = good. Anyone who disagrees with their viewpoint is framed as a socialist or outright Soviet communist.

As long as they convince people to see through that lens, they win by default.

I end up just saying WTF?

People who are moderate and those who lean left tend to believe that things like universal health insurance will make our nation more competitive and also be more humanitarian in providing care to those that currently don't have it. Its a Win-Win situation to many of us who are independent.

There's nothing communist about wanting to make our capitalist American economy more competitive and provide benefits to those who don't them on a very human issue.

So WTF? Why is saying there should be a minimum wage increase become a hand out?

Have we REALLY gotten to the level of debate in this nation where paying people for work is considered a handout?

Pushing boxes, checking inventory, and being a cashier at Wal-Mart isn't a job that requires a college education, but it IS WORK. And its work that should have a livable wage with benefits. No one on here, including myself, beleves a low-service worker should get $50,000 a year with 100% matched 401k contributions up to $10,000 and a lifestyle of the rich and famous.

But working for $20,000 a year isn't something that can't be done. And it hardly hurts the bottom line.

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Its not a hand out, its working in exchange for a more livable wage.

$3,000/12 = 250 month

That's a conservative estimate based on $5.75 going to $9.50/hr difference, but anyway...

$250 is enough to make a difference. And I like how right wingers call working for a livable wage a "hand out."

Jesus, is everything a fricken hand out to you guys unless it goes into your own pocket?

I can't stand extremists, especially ones who claim to be moderate just because they hate both parties! WTF is up with America in 2007? WORKING has become a hand out!

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Just because I had a bad paying job growing up means that my heirs should have it bad growing up? Or that those who don't complete college shouldn't be able to progress at least some?? Is that really your attitude?

If that was the mentality then no one would have sailed across the Atlantic to create something new.

I just don't understand the way some people think. That kind of thinking is completely self-centered with no vision of the larger picture.

Worked up? You think I'm worked up? LOL I'm hardly worked up, my mouth drops in awe that people are making these statements, but I'm hardly worked up.

I think its insane our debates start out at this low level. This isn't a debate, its a joke that we consider everything a socialist takeover if standards are considered.

If America creates a higher minimum wage standard, implements universal health insurance, and lower costs of college to nothing for most students within the context of a capitalist, market system, tell me how does this make us a Soviet-style system command economy where you have quota's for food production, state owned TV manufacturers, state owned car manufacturers, and no opposing political parties?

How is this comparison made at any serious level?

That's just amazing. Its not about being "worked up" my friend! I'm laughing at stupidity. :lol:

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Cinco, the debate in America is whether we should have pure unregulated capitalism in a true dog-eat-dog competitive nature or whether we should have capitalism with safety nets. Moderates want some safety nets, but not as many as those on the left. But the number of communists in America equals almost nothing. None of us want that, yet that tired old Red Scare tactic is brought up again and again.

Right wingers try to frame the debate to where they are the "only" capitalists, while the opposition is nothing more than Soviet communism.

They frame this debate in this way so they can keep it a simple-stupid argument. More government = bad, less government = good. Anyone who disagrees with their viewpoint is framed as a socialist or outright Soviet communist.

As long as they convince people to see through that lens, they win by default.

I end up just saying WTF?

People who are moderate and those who lean left tend to believe that things like universal health insurance will make our nation more competitive and also be more humanitarian in providing care to those that currently don't have it. Its a Win-Win situation to many of us who are independent.

There's nothing communist about wanting to make our capitalist American economy more competitive and provide benefits to those who don't them on a very human issue.

So WTF? Why is saying there should be a minimum wage increase become a hand out?

Have we REALLY gotten to the level of debate in this nation where paying people for work is considered a handout?

Pushing boxes, checking inventory, and being a cashier at Wal-Mart isn't a job that requires a college education, but it IS WORK. And its work that should have a livable wage with benefits. No one on here, including myself, beleves a low-service worker should get $50,000 a year with 100% matched 401k contributions up to $10,000 and a lifestyle of the rich and famous.

But working for $20,000 a year isn't something that can't be done. And it hardly hurts the bottom line.

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Just because I had a bad paying job growing up means that my heirs should have it bad growing up? Or that those who don't complete college shouldn't be able to progress at least some?? Is that really your attitude?

If that was the mentality then no one would have sailed across the Atlantic to create something new.

I just don't understand the way some people think. That kind of thinking is completely self-centered with no vision of the larger picture.

Worked up? You think I'm worked up? LOL I'm hardly worked up, my mouth drops in awe that people are making these statements, but I'm hardly worked up.

I think its insane our debates start out at this low level. This isn't a debate, its a joke that we consider everything a socialist takeover if standards are considered.

That's just amazing. Its not about being "worked up" my friend! :lol:

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I believe that minimum wage should be roughly $10/hr, yes.

I do not believe that a minimum wage of that amount creates disincentive to do better. People who go to college aspire for far more than $10/hr, but $10/hr will help make tuition and rent easier. There's many of us that don't get tuition reimbursement, or didn't while we took classes.

Me included.

I'm a full believer in the markets. Businesses will be equalized. Walmart and Target and the local specialty shops will all be paying the same minimum amounts, and pay more where possible if their business can allow for it. Those who can't afford it will go out of business, but considering the amount of income will inject a lot of spendable cash into the economy, it also creates a bigger pie where if your business is relevent then it'll thrive. Irrelevant businesses that don't have demand will go out of business.

But a higher minimum wage will not cause problems, it will do good for the nation. From a MARKET perspective I believe it will.

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Lets say the minimum wage goes up to $10 hr this year, should those making that now also have an increase of the same amount? Imagine you have worked a few years at a company to get to $10 hr and now someone who is just starting now makes the same as you without puting in the work. I haven't heard of anyone being against a minimum wage, the question is what that wage should be. What pecentage of those 4.3 percent are teens working at a fast food joint or other comparable jobs?

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