minimum wages

[BrandonTO416]

Well back to the point at hand, an increase of the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour won't just help the small percent of people making $5.75/hr. It will help everyone making $5.75, as well as $6, $7, $8, or $8.50 as well.

[erdogs]

At that rate I can see the Targets, Wal-Marts, McDonalds staying in business because of their size. What I'm afraid of is having the mom and pop stores disapear at an even faster rate than before. Of course it could just end up being a zero sum gain for everyone involved. I'm no economist, so I really don't know the answer.

[swh1972]

I'm really not a bad person, I just believe in the notion of equilibrium...let the market dictate what people should earn. I agree that you need to have some sort of floor in place to keep business from taking advantage of workers, but I don't think a minimum wage should be used as the tool for enacting economic change.

[BrandonTO416]

I never said you were a bad person.

But it doesn't matter anyway. Our government believes in giving money to churches, dead farmers, building football stadiums and basketball arenas, free grants to people who don't work, and tax breaks to corporations that are making billions in profits.

Meanwhile roughly 50 million people go without health insurance and our schools are falling apart in many cities and rural communities.

There's not much hope anyway. We pay enough taxes to take care of this already, but its never going to work.

There is a myth that Canada has radically higher taxes, but I like to use it as an example because its a very similar nation but with slightly different priorities.

Using a professional accountant-accurate tax calculator, lets do some comparisons.

$30,000 income, 1 individual exemption, Georgia (the gem and capital of the old/new south):

http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/netpaycalculator.asp

Take Home Pay, monthly: $1,917.83

Takes into consideration FICA payroll taxes (SSI, Medicare) and income tax

$30,000 income, Ontario

http://www.paycheckcity.com/canada/coeaton...calculator.aspx

Take Home Pay, monthly: $1,986.57

Takes into consideration the Canada Pension Plan (CPP), unemployment insurance, and both federal/provincial income tax.

Canadians pay similar amounts of tax, yet they can afford universal health insurance for a more competitive economy. Granted they do have higher sales taxes and rely on that to fund the program (15% GST/PST) right now in Ontario, but even then citizens under a certain income category get quarterly rebate checks. I've seen the checks, the system works well.

Oh, and Canadians don't file provincial taxes separately, its all collected with one form.

So if Canadians are drenched with those god awful taxes just like we are and can afford these programs, so can we.

Oh, and Canada has had a yearly balanced budget since the mid 1990's. They haven't had deficit in a decade. The only G8 nation that has that record.

[erdogs]

How do the numbers look the higher your income goes?

[BrandonTO416]

$50,000 income, monthly take home pay after taxes

Ontario - $3,065.06

Georgia - $2,998.00

$75,000 income, monthly take home pay after taxes

Ontario - $4,319.73

Georgia - $4,276.12

$100,000 income, monthly take home pay after taxes

Ontario - $5,358.40

Georgia - $5,505.43

The change-over happens when you start making six-figures. Canadians pay less tax for the lower 90% of incomes, higher for the top 10%.

And I feel so sorry for the Ontarian making only $5,358 per month. That's absolute communism. Fricken Soviet Canuckistan, we need to invade that liberal pinko land. They need to be taught a lesson and learn how to run their government. We'll whip them into shape just like we whipped Iraq right into shape! we have the right, because our government is just better.</sarcasm>

[erdogs]

Do they pay higher sales taxes or is it about the same. If $10 hr won't hurt the economy or small businesses, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[BrandonTO416]

In Ontario the GST/PST (sales tax) is 13%. 5% of that goes to the federal government (GST) and 8% to the province of Ontario (PST).

In Alberta there is no PST so the sales tax rate is 5%. Alberta is Canada's cowboy province. Its low tax and conservative. Err, its libertarian. They still have gay marriage nationwide... Ontario is considered high tax liberal land.

Nationwide there is a GST rebate program, including Alberta, so that people below a certain income bracket get quarterly (not yearly, yes 4x a year) checks from the government to reimburse their sales tax payments.

---

Look, its not about these fine points per se. We can have universal health insurance in America and not turn into a communist state. Alberta has universal health insurance and its tax rates are well below the American average. Alberta is one of the more libertarian regions of North America, it is hardly a communist place, but if you asked an Albertan to go without their health plan they would scorn you hard.

Canada's doing it, and so is the rest of the western world.

And Ontario is soon to have a $10/hr minimum wage and its economy is red hot. When you think of the Great Lakes there's depressing Buffalo, depressing Detroit, job-losing Ohio, and then you have that little province across the lake that has performed quite well for many decades now.

If they can have universal health insurance and a higher minimum wage and still be profitable, we can do it. I would argue that their health care system gives them an economic advantage as businesses are not strapped with competing while paying for medical care. Not that I have much faith in US government anymore, but we can do it.

[Captain Worley]

I think one of my biggest gripes with raising the minimum wage is that I believe that is a decision that should be made at the state level. The federal government doesn't need to be involved with it.

I don't think the first increase will hurt small businesses too much, because, from what I've seen/heard, most of those jobs pay around 7.00-7.50 anyway. If it ratchets up to around 10..00, I could see a lot of those jobs going away.