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Hilton Norfolk at The Main

vdogg

By vdogg
in Norfolk

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Padman Hamlet

Padman

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I just hope that it's an attractive building. The star rating is based on services and amenities. Shoot, someone could turn the Sheraton into a 5 star hotel with some money and effort. I guess this is a 20 story hotel? Or is it 16?

I looked at some of the Johnson projects on his website. I'm not too encouraged. Ikon might even be missed

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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Get ready for it, because it is highly unlikely that this, or the TC Westin will get four stars or four diamonds, especially in the first five years.

...

Sorry, but just not a realistic expectation.

What determines whether a hotel is a AAA 3 or 4 diamond? I understand that Mobil stars is a tougher rating so I'll just focus on AAA. I was surprised to see that the VB Hilton and the Waterside Marriott are only 3 diamonds which puts them on the same level as the oceanfront Days Inn and Best Western. Don't they provide more extensive services like 24-hour room service and concierge? Is that what is needed to gain a 4 diamond rating? Does the hotel need a spa? The Huntington Beach (Ca.) Hilton which is across busy PCH from the beach has a 4 diamond rating. What makes it superior to the VB Hilton?

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VAGATOR Whistle-Stop

VAGATOR

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What determines whether a hotel is a AAA 3 or 4 diamond? I understand that Mobil stars is a tougher rating so I'll just focus on AAA. I was surprised to see that the VB Hilton and the Waterside Marriott are only 3 diamonds which puts them on the same level as the oceanfront Days Inn and Best Western. Don't they provide more extensive services like 24-hour room service and concierge? Is that what is needed to gain a 4 diamond rating? Does the hotel need a spa? The Huntington Beach (Ca.) Hilton which is across busy PCH from the beach has a 4 diamond rating. What makes it superior to the VB Hilton?

Here is a break down from Mobile

http://mobiltravelguide.howstuffworks.com/hotels-channel.htm

Basically, it safe to say 4 stars and up hotels have a "Ritz Carlton" level of service, and I agree with those who doubt this hotel will reach that level.

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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Here is a break down from Mobile

http://mobiltravelguide.howstuffworks.com/hotels-channel.htm

Basically, it safe to say 4 stars and up hotels have a "Ritz Carlton" level of service, and I agree with those who doubt this hotel will reach that level.

I understand the Mobil ratings. It makes sense to have Courtyards, Doubletrees, Hilton Gardens, Days Inns, etc. at 2 star; Hiltons, Marriotts, Hyatts, etc. at 3 stars; most Ritz Carltons and Mandarins at 4 stars; and only the truly exceptional at 5 stars. But AAA gives 2 and 3 star hotels 3 diamonds, gives some 3 star Hiltons and Marriotts 4 diamonds, and gives some Hyatt Regencies and all Ritz Carltons 5 diamonds. I don't understand how AAA decided a Days Inn is the same as a Westin and how one Hilton on the beach (read: not a golf or spa resort) is better than another Hilton on the beach. I don't see why the VB Hilton, downtown Hilton, or Westin couldn't be AAA 4 diamond, Mobil 3 star hotels. Of course, I think the downtown Hilton won't be that great because Cheapskate Bob will own it.

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vaceltic Hamlet

vaceltic

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There really isn't an existing corporate or tourist structure in the area that merits 4 and 5 star hotels. New hotels in the area will not have the types of services those high rated hotels provide if they can't be justified with a really high room rate per night. I bet rates at the Westin and Hilton will cap at $129 a night. Any run-of-the-mill hotel in other cities offer similar rates and are considered 3 stars.

The Jefferson Hotel is aided in its high rating because of its ambiance and stunning architectural beauty inside as well as personal service. Half of that equation cannot be met by new hotels. I just saw a television piece on its out-of-this-world Sunday brunch, voted the best in Richmond. Could anyone honestly say they had their best meal in VB at the Oceanfront Hilton, or at the downtown Marriot? Unless a hotel can basically sustain a guest with stellar food, service, and amenities so they don't have to leave the premises, they will get the typical 3-star rating. I doubt the Westin or Hilton will have much in the way of shopping options or entertainment on site to merit that.

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scm Hamlet

scm

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I don't see why the VB Hilton, downtown Hilton, or Westin couldn't be AAA 4 diamond, Mobil 3 star hotels. Of course, I think the downtown Hilton won't be that great because Cheapskate Bob will own it.

Here are the breakdowns on the criteria for the AAA ratings:

AAA ratings scale

There just isn't a track record for Hiltons or Westins being 4 diamond outside of major metropolitan areas. Not to say it doesn't happen, but.......

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wrldcoupe4 Metropolitan Area

wrldcoupe4

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The Jefferson Hotel is aided in its high rating because of its ambiance and stunning architectural beauty inside as well as personal service. Half of that equation cannot be met by new hotels. I just saw a television piece on its out-of-this-world Sunday brunch, voted the best in Richmond. Could anyone honestly say they had their best meal in VB at the Oceanfront Hilton, or at the downtown Marriot? Unless a hotel can basically sustain a guest with stellar food, service, and amenities so they don't have to leave the premises, they will get the typical 3-star rating. I doubt the Westin or Hilton will have much in the way of shopping options or entertainment on site to merit that.

Having stayed in the Jefferson for a night, I can say that it truly is spectacular. I'll never forget when the doorman opened the door and as you walk in Jefferson's statue awaits you. Walking up to check in, we passed "high society" ladies having tea time and crumpets surrounding the statue while a harpist played close by... pretty out of this world for me.

Here's a video

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tombarnes City

tombarnes

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The service and ambience at the Jefferson merit at least 4 stars, if the 5th star is a matter of debate. In any event, the qualities which are not exactly quantifiable are often what will push a given hotel over the 4 or 5 star level. As a rule, it's harder to achieve stars than diamonds, but 4 or 5 diamonds from the AAA is still an achievement not to be sneezed at. It think is reasonable to hope for four diamonds or stars, but they are not guaranteed. The fifth, whether it be a star or a diamond, is rarely granted before a property has established a solid record of service excellence.

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levarforever Whistle-Stop

levarforever

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They've had years to do this. Why do they wait till the last minute to do this?

Yeah, I know. It kind of seems after-the-fact, doesn't it? But I wonder if the preservationists actually have some clout with this petition. If norfolk's city council thinks that it's worthy enough to discuss in a meeting, then I would imagine there's something to it.

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Padman Hamlet

Padman

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They established a groundswell of support for an idea, not just about the three buildings that symbolize a greater problem. Hopefully, both sides will listen to each other and come up with a useful way to preserve the remaining buildings that are of real historic value and architectural significance. There has to be more give and take on this issue. The Hilton isn't the last of it. I know I sound Pollyannaish on this, but I thought that Norfolk's days of blind bulldozing were a thing of the past.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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They are still standing. Is it because of the petition?

Possibly. I was under the impression that all this was supposed to be done by September 5th so there has definitely been a slowdown. It's not out of the question that this was due to the petition.

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spiker3 Hamlet

spiker3

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Hilton Project In Trouble

A controversial plan to build a Hilton Hotel, convention center and parking garage may be disintegrating, less than a month after a historic building was demolished to make way for it.

While the mayor and city manager publicly state their confidence in the deal with billionaire Robert L. Johnson, several city officials privately question whether he will follow through with a commitment to build the oft-delayed hotel, according to three officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Johnson is the founder of Black Entertainment Television and owner of the NBA's Charlotte Bobcats. His company, RLJ Development of Bethesda, Md., has a portfolio of more than 120 hotels. However, RLJ has constructed few hotels from scratch, the officials said, and with construction costs rising and credit drying up, they say Johnson is having second thoughts about the Norfolk project.

Officials with RLJ have expressed a reluctance to actually construct the hotel and are negotiating a restructuring of their deal to develop the hotel with Norfolk-based Fulco Development, officials said.

City officials are so concerned that they have held preliminary discussions with other developers interested in taking over the project, sources said.

A fiasco from the outset, Norfolk is getting its just desserts with this one, imo, they kow-towed far too much for developers recently, and now it's come back to bite them in the you know what. Fingers crossed. Other points of note...

Construction is supposed to begin in October, according to a schedule in the master development agreement signed by the city and developers.

A series of e-mails between Roderick S. Woolard, Norfolk's director of economic development, and RLJ officials indicate the deal is far from done, however. The e-mails, obtained by The Virginian-Pilot under the Freedom of Information Act, indicated that the architecture firm designing the project, RTKL Associates of Baltimore, had not been paid $1 million for services on the Norfolk project that it was owed in late July.

RLJ officials asked the city to help pay the bills. City officials declined because they are not obligated to do so until developers have a signed contract with RTKL.

Another e-mail to Woolard from an RLJ official indicated that as of Aug. 1, financing plans for the Norfolk hotel had not been finalized.

Vice Mayor Anthony L. Burfoot complained that details on the deal have been closely held by a small group of city officials. "I've asked to see renderings of the project, and so far, I have not seen any," he said.

Burfoot added that "there are some folks waiting in the wings that would love to do a Westin," which he said would be a better product than the proposed hotel. He declined to name them.

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levarforever Whistle-Stop

levarforever

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Just to think, Norfolk probably tore down a historic building for nothing. Well, if this Hilton deal falls through and the city can get another proposal for the site, perhaps that developer will design something that is sensitive to the historic buildings in that vacinity. We'll see how this Hilton deal goes first...if it's worth persuing.

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levarforever Whistle-Stop

levarforever

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I am just as perplexed as the Vice Mayor. I haven't really seen any renderings of the Hilton myself, except for one on pilotonline.com, but that was sort of an early rendition. That's about it though. Come to think of it, it always seemed suspicious that the city wasn't more public about the development of this project. Sure some details don't have to be divulged, but they seemed a bit too discreet. Anyway, I don't think if this project fails, it's going to cause downtown Norfolk's development to stagnate. It just might make way for something better.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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I have never been so p**sed off in all my life. Exactly how can a Billionaire (capital B intended) developer be so ineffectual at getting stuff done? Thank God we didn't sink too much money in this before trouble became apparent. I doubt we would get a Westin, as I think they would like to see how their other project does before sinking another one in this region. I do have hope however that whatever new plan they go with is classy and "Westin like" so it's not all bad news. As for Johnson, how did this guy get so much money? He just doesn't seem to have his stuff together. This is the exact same type of stuff that happened in Baltimore...

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