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Hilton Norfolk at The Main


vdogg

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I was just hoping it would be...concrete has come a long way but steel last longer but it is more expensive

That is not necessarily true.

 

If a concrete building is properly constructed and protected, it can last as long, or longer, than steel.   The Pantheon in Rome is a concrete structure completed about AD 25.  The first concrete skyscraper, the Ingalls Building in Cincinnati, was completed in 1903 and is still in use today.  You almost never see a building, either concrete or steel, demolished because its structural system has deteriorated. Buildings get demolished because they become functionally obsolete or their site is needed for some other use, but not for structural reasons.

 

Sometimes steel buildings are less expensive, and sometimes concrete buildings are.  It depends on a lot of factors, such as the relative cost of steel vs. Portland cement and rebar, but also including local practices and the availability of skilled trades.  For the Wells Fargo Building in Norfolk, a steel frame would have been about a million dollars cheaper than a concrete frame.  Steel was also believed to reduce the construction schedule by four months, which would have created a significant savings in construction financing.  However, the concrete frame was not as deep as the steel beams.  This allowed the architects to decrease the height of each floor by 18 inches, greatly reducing the amount of architectural precast wall panels and curtain walls needed for the exterior skin.  The resultant savings made concrete the better alternative. But the next high-rise might go the other way.

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  • 1 month later...

I don't think there is cause to worry.

 

It is not uncommon for the project to drive a handful of test piles early in the project.  One or two test piles will be loaded to determine the pile capacity.  Then the structural engineer will design all of the foundations based on the pile capacity determined by the test piles.  This means that there is some early activity on the site, and then nothing happens for two or three months while the foundation design is finalized.

 

Installing the tower crane (the tall blue crane) takes a good bit of money.  The contractor would not have spent that money if he wasn't pretty sure the building would get built.

 

In NRKJeff's photo, the long, white stripe on the ground directly behind the mobile crane are the piles.  They are typically 12 inches square and about 70-80 feet long to get past the soft upper layers and down to solid material that makes up Norfolk's geological soil formation. There appear to be eight or ten piles, which would be a reasonable number of test piles for a building of this size.

 

The vertical crane on the left in front of the Custom House in this photo (it's hard to see in the shadows) is the pile driving rig.  The contractor may even remove the mobile crane and the pile driver from the site for the few months while the foundation plans are finalized, if he has another project where they are needed.  If he doesn't have the work elsewhere, he will spare the cost of demobilization and remobilization and leave the pile rig on the site unused for a few months.

 

 

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Any movement on this? I'm getting nervous.

Nervous? Why? I've seen construction activity on this site everyday. They've expanded some of the boundaries and are already digging out some of the foundation. Did I miss something? I actually was down there the other day and took some pics. Just haven't uploaded them from my phone yet. They've driven a lot of piles. Probably close to being finished with that actually. They've been driving since October.

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Well, this thing is finally coming out of the ground, they've begun construction on the first floor. They've also started putting up the second tower crane. I was driving so couldn't take any pics. I'll probably try to get out there and take some pictures when the weather gets warmer.

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I think this will fill in nicely, but I do wish that would have made it taller. :(

 

This building, like myself, would look better a bit taller and thinner.  This will be about as stout as the Hilton next to Camden Yards in Baltimore.  From Main Street it will have a more interesting facade, but from the north it will have a similar look/palette.  http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/00487101_H14003901-760x505.jpg

 

Still looking forward to seeing it rise.  

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This building, like myself, would look better a bit taller and thinner.  This will be about as stout as the Hilton next to Camden Yards in Baltimore.  From Main Street it will have a more interesting facade, but from the north it will have a similar look/palette.  http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/00487101_H14003901-760x505.jpg

 

Still looking forward to seeing it rise.

Blah! LOL

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This building, like myself, would look better a bit taller and thinner.  This will be about as stout as the Hilton next to Camden Yards in Baltimore.  From Main Street it will have a more interesting facade, but from the north it will have a similar look/palette.  http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/00487101_H14003901-760x505.jpg

 

Still looking forward to seeing it rise.  

One of my first thoughts when I saw the new renderings was that it looked a lot like a smaller version of the Hilton in Baltimore. Hopefully it has a bit more success than Baltimore's Hilton too.

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Man what a major disappointment!

 

It appears that the hotel is going to two floors shorter with less parking and a smaller conference center. Why in the hell can't the city build things in a timely fashion instead of waiting until costs increase or until the project dies such as the case of the Granby Tower?

 

I guess now, our only hope of a real downtown is Virginia Beach since Norfolk can't get it's crap together.

 

After thinking about it for a while, maybe they are only talking about the conference center portion of the development and not the hotel itself. Hopefully, this is the case here; however, either way, the city is not getting what was originally agreed upon.

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The conference center and parking garage are attached to the hotel, not under it. Any decrease or increase in the height of the garage or conference center will have zero effect on the height of the hotel itself.

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The conference center and parking garage are attached to the hotel, not under it. Any decrease or increase in the height of the garage or conference center will have zero effect on the height of the hotel itself.

Thanks for the clarification Vdogg.

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Man what a major disappointment!

 

It appears that the hotel is going to two floors shorter with less parking and a smaller conference center. Why in the hell can't the city build things in a timely fashion instead of waiting until costs increase or until the project dies such as the case of the Granby Tower?

 

I guess now, our only hope of a real downtown is Virginia Beach since Norfolk can't get it's crap together.

 

After thinking about it for a while, maybe they are only talking about the conference center portion of the development and not the hotel itself. Hopefully, this is the case here; however, either way, the city is not getting what was originally agreed upon.

What gets me right now is that one of the major reasons for building this new hotel was for the new grand ballroom... yet with the reduction in size, the new grand ballroom is only slightly bigger than the one at the Marriott? The convention center is smaller too now. I'm starting to wonder if this hotel is actually worth the tax money that's going into it. Then again, I also wonder how much longer the Sheraton really has in it. Should things continue to stall at Waterside AND the Sheraton go under, there's suddenly an awful lot of prime waterfront property in downtown Norfolk. 

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Norfolk is not a convention or hotel city. Sure, you might have some professionals here on business, and the MEAC tournament. But, I don't see the point of a five-star hotel here, at least not a high rise. If the Tides or Admirals were Big-4 teams that drew massive crowds, then maybe. But otherwise, nah.

 

I would much rather see that space used for a 30-story office tower, with a Fortune 500 company coming here. Wouldn't mind seeing the Waterside and Sheraton space used for the same. This area could benefit from some tech companies and startups coming here. A sleek, state-of-the-art office tower would look really nice along the skyline. 

 

What am I talking about? This is Norfolk.  :P

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Norfolk is not a convention or hotel city. Sure, you might have some professionals here on business, and the MEAC tournament. But, I don't see the point of a five-star hotel here, at least not a high rise. If the Tides or Admirals were Big-4 teams that drew massive crowds, then maybe. But otherwise, nah.

 

I would much rather see that space used for a 30-story office tower, with a Fortune 500 company coming here. Wouldn't mind seeing the Waterside and Sheraton space used for the same. This area could benefit from some tech companies and startups coming here. A sleek, state-of-the-art office tower would look really nice along the skyline. 

 

What am I talking about? This is Norfolk.  :P

The more I think about it, the more I think that the Hilton's overall end game is to essentially render the Sheraton useless so that that building can be put out of its misery. That land, Waterside + the Sheraton could be used in a much better way than a mid-rise hotel and a cluster of chain bars/restaurants.

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The more I think about it, the more I think that the Hilton's overall end game is to essentially render the Sheraton useless so that that building can be put out of its misery. That land, Waterside + the Sheraton could be used in a much better way than a mid-rise hotel and a cluster of chain bars/restaurants.

The Marriott hotel parking garage should be built upon as it takes up so much space near the waterfront.

 

There is an abundance of free standing parking garages sitting on prime land downtown. The city should re-evaluate all the properties for prime development opportunities.

 

Perhaps it's time for someone with a real vision to make suggestions to city council members instead of those seeking profits. I bet local college students, architecture designers, or even people on this site could offer more for less than the tens of thousands that they have already paid for these plans that are borderline awful and never acted upon.

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