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Hilton Norfolk at The Main


vdogg

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"As far as we have gone, in terms of assembling the land, we would need to find the person who would be quickest to get it to the table," City Councilman Paul R. Riddick said.

Burfoot disagreed, saying, "If this deal doesn't work out, then it gives us the opportunity to do what we should have done from the start, and that's put it out to bid. Norfolk has a good name. We don't have to give the city away. We should have people compete for our business."

I'm with Burfoot on this one. Lets do it right this time. This thing should've been up for competitive bid in the first place.

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I don't know guys,

In the grand scheme of things, this may possibly been the only takers for this type of development (or at all). Remember, we have the syndor lot, last I recall I do not see any one beating down walls to get to that site and it would have been a great subsitute for any landmark development (despite what they are holding it for). I'm afraid we will get something to replace it, but not as grand (if you consider that grand at all).....Just a thought.

If i had to roll the dice, they are pushing it because its one of the few major developments Norfolk DT has left on the books...

I knew something was funny, they started strong then back off. No additional equipment, men disappearing.......

"Yeah, why would they start doing anything if the deal isn't finalized from top to bottom...."

All of it was good faith that is turning into cloudy faith at best...

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I hate to say it guys, but, as Vdogg stated "this is what happened in Baltimore", I think this is probably all part of the plan to juice the city for as much money as he can. This guy didn't accidentally become a billionaire. He did so by making shrewd business deals and making people ante up even when they do not want to. From my perspective, I think there is a good case to say that is what is happening here. The city officials are definitely not going to start a whole new process of negotiations with a new firm. They are going to want to pull this project through. As a result, I'd bet they cave and fork over more money than they intended. I think this thing will get built, but it is going to be painful for Norfolk officials.

Anyone with some experience negotiating these kind of deals have any insight into this?

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I don't know guys,

In the grand scheme of things, this may possibly been the only takers for this type of development (or at all). Remember, we have the syndor lot, last I recall I do not see any one beating down walls to get to that site and it would have been a great subsitute for any landmark development (despite what they are holding it for). I'm afraid we will get something to replace it, but not as grand (if you consider that grand at all).....Just a thought.

If i had to roll the dice, they are pushing it because its one of the few major developments Norfolk DT has left on the books...

I knew something was funny, they started strong then back off. No additional equipment, men disappearing.......

"Yeah, why would they start doing anything if the deal isn't finalized from top to bottom...."

All of it was good faith that is turning into cloudy faith at best...

Lets not roll out the gloom and doom yet. This project has been shaky from its very inception and is absolutely no indication of how downtown Norfolk is doing as a whole. Wachovia was one of the original prospects looking at the Snyder lot, they chose over by Mac Arthur instead to be on the light rail line. There still may be others, and often we don't get the full details until a deal is actually made. Light rail passed all its hurdles, Granby Tower is under construction, Residence inn is nearing construction and Belmont @ Freemason is too. Lets keep everything in perspective, most of us never thought this would come to fruition in the first place so at the most we are back to square one. New England, I disagree, I think the city has finally lost its patience with this developer and may very well sue him for breach of contract and move on to someone else. I believe them when they say they have other developers looking at this location because this is quite a lucrative spot in a resurgent downtown.

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No, I would not say that is a fair guage to rate DT as whole, however, the lack of the bid process is...I seriously doubt they would skip out on the bid process if they had developers stumbling over themselves to develop the parcel. The vice major maybe right, however, it may be an issue to do it on the same level as the Hilton proposed (or better)....The individuals he speaks about may water down the site's potiental....

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I don't know what's best, but intuitively I'd say that other interested parties should be brought in and that they should meet with Mr. Fuller's group to see if something can be worked out between them. It would be an attempt to have some local participation and also get some utility from the work that has already been underway.

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To underscore a point raised above, I don't think Starwood/Westin will be anxious to build another property in the region right away. They will want to see how their property in Virginia Beach does first. It depresses me to think that the Ikon Building may have been demolished for absolutely nothing. For the moment, I remain cautiously hopeful that the original project- as mixed a blessing as it has proved to be for downtown Norfolk- will go through. This may well be another stunt by Johnson to extract more $$$.

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I really think that they didn't put the building out for bid because they wanted a highly respected minority developing in the city to show the city is minority developing friendly. This was a political move and its come to bite them in the butt.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I think Johnson is using this reality and the reality of $$$ made available for Granby Tower to squeeze the City of Norfolk for more and more. Apparently Johnson is not getting the cooperation he was expecting, or he has pushed the envelope too far.

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Building a convention center without an attached hotel would be an enormous mistake for Norfolk. A hotel must be attached in order to attract business. Without a hotel, planners will be reluctant to book meetings there. Period. It's not as though meeting planners were beating down the doors in order to choose Norfolk. An attached hotel would meke the choice so much easier.

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I've been harping since this project was announced and later delayed that Bob Johnson is a disreputable person. He is first and foremost a cheapskate. The guy hoards the money he made of off the sale of BET. He has billions but doesn't donate to anything. His ex-wife, who labels him a spendthrift, does He bought an NBA expansion franchise in Charlotte, named it after himself, got the city to build him a new arena, and then he didn't field a competitive team. He's millions under the cap, not to land some free agent, but because he doesn't want to spend on players. He wants to turn big profits so he cuts on every expense possible. The irony is that the poor performance on the court has led to a poor performance at the gates. If he doesn't derive a windfall from an investment, he's not going to do it. The worst thing Norfolk did was enter into an exclusive deal with this guy. At the first hint of trouble over a year ago, they should have ran for the doors. I hope Norfolk doesn't tear down the Decker or Beecroft & Bull buildings considering what is going on. I don't mind the IKON building coming down because although it is almost 140 years old, saving it would have been akin to saving a big box store 140 years from now. It was such a bland, function over form building.

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I'm pissed about this but honestly I am not totally surprised. A few things come to mind that this could've happened. Some signs include the fact it took 4 years for Johnson to finally agree (but not make sure he backs out), Johnson proposed 250 rooms and only gives 240 despite the city requesting (and in need of) 300 or more rooms due to a very low year-round vacancy hotel rate downtown and finally the fact that he is making Norfolk pay 70% of the project despite he himself being a Billionaire and the one who brought this project up to begin with. What is there to have cold feet for? High vacancy rates on the hotel that he built? If anything he would probably kick himself for not putting as much as the city wanted. It's obviously not enough since the city is set to get the Residence Inn under construction soon.

I say that if he doesn't follow through with his end of the deal, drop him, sue him for breach of contract and then find another developer that will actually care about the land and the city's needs. Johnson has already delayed this project for too long, has pushed his luck (and reputation) too far, has put city officials and it's citizens including me in too many round-a-bouts, tore down a building to lead us on and then start another round-a-bout.

I think the city doesn't do a bidding process for the simple fact that they generally want to be heavily involved in projects like this. I however agree with Burfoot that for this project we should allow the bid process. The project is already there, we just need someone to build it. Even better, I hope if the city does open a bid, they emphasize the need for more hotel rooms and possibly a new and better design in the hotel portion. If Johnson says the architect for the hotel portion is owed $1 million, tell him no because his design looks like it only costs $1 million. Heck I bet the city's little glass portion itself on the convention center costs more than that crap Johnson's buddy put on top. So what if this project get delayed another year to year and a half, I'll take it if it makes the building better.

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As i said, it serves the city right for throwing millions of dollars at developers. Fort Norfolk, Granby Tower, Hilton, there was free money to be had to build in downtown, when none was needed, the market was strengthening on it's own. It takes a case like this where the city finally learns its lesson. I realize that after the Hilton the city said we're done, but god forbid, what happens if Wachovia needs a subsidy? Guaranteed the city will provide it. At the Hilton they GAVE RLJ the land, $7.5 million to sign the contract, $750K if they could attract a upscale restaurant, and paid for over 2/3 the project. A cornerstone development in 2004 quickly turned into a snowball of incentives and it simply rolled out of control. Rus and CP are exactly right, a minority developer, let's bend over backwards to accomadate his needs. We got fleeced, and the city council deserves it. Someone should have had the guts to pull the plug on this a year ago, rather than cave to irrational demands.

I will not however bemoan the loss of the Ikon building; just because a building is 140 years old does not make it a building of historical value. It was past its usefulness, and if this project didnt tear it down the next one would have. It's no loss to the city of Norfolk.

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I could see the city finally just building the convention center without the hotel, or even designing it so that a future tower could still happen on site. This isn't going to be a huge convention center like what VB built so it will survive just fine without a hotel attacted to it.

Also if they have other hotel companies that would jump on board, then it is time to kick Johnson to the curb with no free money in hand and work with another developer.

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I don't know guys,

In the grand scheme of things, this may possibly been the only takers for this type of development (or at all). Remember, we have the syndor lot, last I recall I do not see any one beating down walls to get to that site and it would have been a great subsitute for any landmark development (despite what they are holding it for). I'm afraid we will get something to replace it, but not as grand (if you consider that grand at all).....Just a thought.

If i had to roll the dice, they are pushing it because its one of the few major developments Norfolk DT has left on the books...

I knew something was funny, they started strong then back off. No additional equipment, men disappearing.......

"Yeah, why would they start doing anything if the deal isn't finalized from top to bottom...."

All of it was good faith that is turning into cloudy faith at best...

There's a big difference between Snydor and this. It truth, hoteliers have been banging on the door. I have to believe Norfolk has a lot of options if this doesn't happen.

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