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Massive Bridge Collapse in Minneapolis


wolverine

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The money is already there without having to increase taxes. I'm not going to go into our overseas spending whether it's for the military or foreign aid but just think about all of the pork barrel spending that is in place. Cut out just a fraction of that and you could probably replace every bridge in the country. How many millions are to be spent on the "Bridge to No Where" in Alaska? How many pointless museums are built and funded just so Congressman can say they brought a project to their district? The list can go on and on and on.

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Raintree, golf clap to you. The way politicians, from the local guys on up, in both parties, spend money is just...a shame. Our infrastructure has been neglected for years, as money was funneled off to other things. I think they need to go to a refresher class on wants vs needs.

Now that I think about it. it wouldn't be a bad idea for their constituents, either.

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The money is already there without having to increase taxes. I'm not going to go into our overseas spending whether it's for the military or foreign aid but just think about all of the pork barrel spending that is in place. Cut out just a fraction of that and you could probably replace every bridge in the country. How many millions are to be spent on the "Bridge to No Where" in Alaska? How many pointless museums are built and funded just so Congressman can say they brought a project to their district? The list can go on and on and on.
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The money is already there without having to increase taxes. I'm not going to go into our overseas spending whether it's for the military or foreign aid but just think about all of the pork barrel spending that is in place. Cut out just a fraction of that and you could probably replace every bridge in the country. How many millions are to be spent on the "Bridge to No Where" in Alaska? How many pointless museums are built and funded just so Congressman can say they brought a project to their district? The list can go on and on and on.
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Raintree, golf clap to you. The way politicians, from the local guys on up, in both parties, spend money is just...a shame. Our infrastructure has been neglected for years, as money was funneled off to other things. I think they need to go to a refresher class on wants vs needs.

Now that I think about it. it wouldn't be a bad idea for their constituents, either.

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Raintree, golf clap to you. The way politicians, from the local guys on up, in both parties, spend money is just...a shame. Our infrastructure has been neglected for years, as money was funneled off to other things. I think they need to go to a refresher class on wants vs needs.

Now that I think about it. it wouldn't be a bad idea for their constituents, either.

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Interestingly, a large portion of Minnesota's "pork barrel" spending is on roads and bridges. Jim Oberstar secures a LOT of money for the state to update roads and bridges.

Last year, Oberstar set aside money for the state to rebuild a large section of highway in northern Minnesota that had seen a lot of accidents. Our Republican governor cut the matching portion out of the state budget, so we didn't get any of hte federal money.

Our Republican governor has his Lt. governor running MnDOT and under his watch our roads have deteriorated to their worst levels in decades.

Much like welfare leads to redistribution of income, our federal system takes money unequally from all over the nation and redistributes it to areas in need or to areas with congressmen and women who have their fingers in the cookie jar. My state receives 69 cents back for every dollar it pays into the federal government. Perhaps if we had that extra 31 cents we'd have been able to prevent this disaster, but instead we are busy paying for bridges to be built in other states.

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If states like Minnesota are getting 69 cents back for every tax dollar and Connecticut gets back 53 cents for every dollar ... where's the profit going? Is anyone even getting back all of their taxes returned to their state?...

It would be great if we didn't go to Iraq. It could be great if we pulled out today and used the money for something better in our own nation - like improving infrastructure. But the problem is, the war is just tacking onto a crippling national debt. And if we weren't in Iraq, there would be some other place we'd be spending money - surely not on infrastructure. We will only spot fix wherever we need to, and that's if you're lucky.

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As a MN resident, how angry are you at this? BTW, if the Fed gov't reported a major deficiency in it, why wouldnt' they fund the needed repairs, or work w/ the the state DOT to take care of it.

Like I said earlier, hopefully this is a wake up call, b/c this could have happened anywhere in the country. It's happened in CT, OH/WV(Silver Bridge 1967, plunged into the icy waters of the Ohio River, the movie "The Mothman Prophecies" was about it), a bridge on I-40 in OK collapsed a couple years ago, and in the early 80s, a bridge in St Petersburg, FL collapsed after being hit by a freighter.

Like you, I'd be for paying higher gas taxes, as long as it was guarenteed to fix our own infrastructure.

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Further, if you don't think there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats, than please explain why, over at least the last forty years, the federal deficit and the misallocation of government spending have invariably lessened when Democrats are in power and increased when Republicans are?
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What does any of this have to do with the bridge collapse? I know it's popular these days for people to use tragedies to further their political ends, but I don't see this as a political issue.

This is an issue with those at the local level. If this bridge was in such bad shape, why didn't they shut the whole thing down to make repairs? Someone dropped the ball and needs to be fired. Who was the structural engineer who couldn't see this coming? Who was overseeing this project on site that didn't understand the danger? Just because a bridge is old doesn't mean it's inadequate, take the Brooklyn Bridge as an example. Maybe this bridge wasn't built right in the first place. These are all questions that need to be asked first, and then we can find a political solution to make sure something like this never happens again. Jeez, does everything have to come down to Republicans versus Democrats? :rolleyes:

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I thought I heard the Brooklyn Bridge did receive a poor rating at some point recently. But I think repairs were done or scheduled... I'm sorry to be vague, but the year I think I heard was 2002.

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This is an issue with those at the local level. If this bridge was in such bad shape, why didn't they shut the whole thing down to make repairs? Someone dropped the ball and needs to be fired. Who was the structural engineer who couldn't see this coming? Who was overseeing this project on site that didn't understand the danger?
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What does any of this have to do with the bridge collapse? I know it's popular these days for people to use tragedies to further their political ends, but I don't see this as a political issue.

This is an issue with those at the local level. If this bridge was in such bad shape, why didn't they shut the whole thing down to make repairs? Someone dropped the ball and needs to be fired. Who was the structural engineer who couldn't see this coming? Who was overseeing this project on site that didn't understand the danger? Just because a bridge is old doesn't mean it's inadequate, take the Brooklyn Bridge as an example. Maybe this bridge wasn't built right in the first place. These are all questions that need to be asked first, and then we can find a political solution to make sure something like this never happens again. Jeez, does everything have to come down to Republicans versus Democrats? :rolleyes:

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Personally I think this bridge collapse is very much a political issue for one very unnerving reason. Today's Elected officials are a collection of corrupted sewer rats that could care less about the needs of the people (good solid infrastructure being one of them) and more about satisfying their lust for power and glory. If one needs a case and point, just take a look at post Katrina New Orleans. If the system of government at all levels did not help that city in its darkest hour, why would they care enough to maintain our infrastructure. In short, we are going to see allot more New Orleans, and bridge collapses along with lord only knows what else until we the people can vote in Elected Officials that actually cares about this country and its people instead of satisfying their own greed.

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Looking through this entire thread about all the political stuff and who inspected what. Everyone here sounds like the media, digging up a bunch of b.s. just so they can point a finger.

I still support my earlier theory

- The caisson supporting the piers failed, possibly due to erosion or inadequate ground support.

- The part of the bridge that failed, WAS NEVER inspected, because how could someone possibly inspect something underground.

- I believe this incident has NOTHING to do with MNDOT inspections, construction, aging infrastructure, or design specifics, rather failure to analyze the consequences of building on unstable ground. I don't believe or engineers are as incompetent as everyone seems to make them out to be. If there was a real noticeable problem with this bridge, it would have been shut down. But inspections show that the bridge was not going to collapse despite wild 'possible scenarios.'

The video supports my theory. The arch itself doesn't collapse because displacement should have happened from pier to pier, which it doesn't.. You can see failure occurs at ONE pier, which is followed by the bridge being PULLED down into the water. Photos on flickr show the pier at full tilt. I don't believe this is possible by failure of the superstructure because:

a. The steel superstructure would have snapped from the connections, leaving the pier undamaged.

b. I don't believe the weight of the vehicles and steel structure is sufficient enough to displace the pier to the degree of which it tilted.

The loss of lives that occurred in this disaster is tragic but nothing it makes it worse than when someone needs to start pointing fingers. No one knows for sure what caused it. I'd be willing to wait and see exactly what it is before people start getting pissed at every government entity that has ever touched this bridge.

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Looking through this entire thread about all the political stuff and who inspected what. Everyone here sounds like the media, digging up a bunch of b.s. just so they can point a finger.

I still support my earlier theory

- The caisson supporting the piers failed, possibly due to erosion or inadequate ground support.

- The part of the bridge that failed, WAS NEVER inspected, because how could someone possibly inspect something underground.

- I believe this incident has NOTHING to do with MNDOT inspections, construction, aging infrastructure, or design specifics, rather failure to analyze the consequences of building on unstable ground. I don't believe or engineers are as incompetent as everyone seems to make them out to be. If there was a real noticeable problem with this bridge, it would have been shut down. But inspections show that the bridge was not going to collapse despite wild 'possible scenarios.'

The video supports my theory. The arch itself doesn't collapse because displacement should have happened from pier to pier, which it doesn't.. You can see failure occurs at ONE pier, which is followed by the bridge being PULLED down into the water. Photos on flickr show the pier at full tilt. I don't believe this is possible by failure of the superstructure because:

a. The steel superstructure would have snapped from the connections, leaving the pier undamaged.

b. I don't believe the weight of the vehicles and steel structure is sufficient enough to displace the pier to the degree of which it tilted.

The loss of lives that occurred in this disaster is tragic but nothing it makes it worse than when someone needs to start pointing fingers. No one knows for sure what caused it. I'd be willing to wait and see exactly what it is before people start getting pissed at every government entity that has ever touched this bridge.

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Over a third of the bridges in the country are in at least as bad condition as the one that collapsed, and many are rated worse. Can you imagine the chaos that would result if a third of the nation's bridges were closed at the same time for repairs that could take months?

Maintainence of the Interstate highway system is managed by state DOT's, but nearly all of the funding comes from the federal government. If Interstate bridges are undermaintained due to lack of funds, the blame lies with the federal government, not local officials. Did lack of funds contribute to this failure? I have no idea, nor does anyone else. However, it is no secret to anyone that transportation infrastructure nationwide is grossly underfunded. The problem is far bigger than a few local officials, and it is indeed a political issue.

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.......

- I believe this incident has NOTHING to do with MNDOT inspections, construction, aging infrastructure, or design specifics, rather failure to analyze the consequences of building on unstable ground. I don't believe or engineers are as incompetent as everyone seems to make them out to be. If there was a real noticeable problem with this bridge, it would have been shut down. But inspections show that the bridge was not going to collapse despite wild 'possible scenarios.'.....

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