Audi/VW moving rumor

[ab1137]

Rumor mill (Greenville) suggests Audi is moving to Anderson

There is still some debate going on about where they will build - Hwy 81 or Hwy 86 (both at I-85). I would like to see a location a little closer to 81 and the City of Anderson, which would cause the area to grow rapidly and seperate itself from Greenville a bit. I guess it's just a waiting game, but if anyone has further info please add your thoughts. One poster mentioned 700 acres being purchased in February on Hwy 81, does anyone know details on that sale?

[GSP Tiger]

I cannot question the fact that SC-81 and SC-86 will both continue to grow. As additional industries come in, everything follows behind. This will continue to enhance northern Anderson County's industrial area.

Roads will be an issue. Both will need to be widened to accomodate additional traffic, SC-81 from I-85 to White Horse Road (US-25) in Greenville, and SC-86 (and SC-8) from US-123 in Easley, through Piedmont, to US-25 below Moonville. I will revisit this idea, Anderson area roads, in a future thread.

[Spartan]

This would definitely be a boost for Anderson's economy as well as the Upstate and South Carolina (We've seen what BMW has done for us). I hope we learn more about this rumor soon.

[Greenville]

Rumor mill (Greenville) suggests Audi is moving to Anderson

There is still some debate going on about where they will build - Hwy 81 or Hwy 86 (both at I-85). I would like to see a location a little closer to 81 and the City of Anderson, which would cause the area to grow rapidly and seperate itself from Greenville a bit. I guess it's just a waiting game, but if anyone has further info please add your thoughts. One poster mentioned 700 acres being purchased in February on Hwy 81, does anyone know details on that sale?

[ab1137]

I guess what I mean by "seperate" is stand out, or put it on the map. Anderson is rarely talked about because Greenville lands all the big corporations. Anderson will always be a suburb of Greenville, but it could promote itself in a manor that would make it a good and unique place in and of itself.

I think Anderson would see the most residential growth between G-vlle and A-town because of its lower housing costs, factor in gas prices and employees would want to live closer to work.

[krazeeboi]

If the BMW plant is any indication, Greenville would still get the majority of the shine if Anderson County lands the project in the area that's been proposed.

[interestedexpat]

If the BMW plant is any indication, Greenville would still get the majority of the shine if Anderson County lands the project in the area that's been proposed.

[gs3]

^ Great points.

One thing I've noticed about Upstate....those that grew up here, tend to separate Upstate more than those of us who have moved in recently, IMO. When I moved here, I thought, "HOW GREAT".....within a 45 minute radius I have mountains, lakes, small quaint towns, unique things like The Beacon, etc. To me the knitting together of Upstate was something I noticed immediately and a plus that helped me decide to move here. I spend just as many weekends headed to Lake Hartwell or to Clemson or to the Mountains, as I do in downtown Greenville. We live in a great region guys!!

[GvilleSC]

^ Great points.

One thing I've noticed about Upstate....those that grew up here, tend to separate Upstate more than those of us who have moved in recently, IMO. When I moved here, I thought, "HOW GREAT".....within a 45 minute radius I have mountains, lakes, small quaint towns, unique things like The Beacon, etc. To me the knitting together of Upstate was something I noticed immediately and a plus that helped me decide to move here. I spend just as many weekends headed to Lake Hartwell or to Clemson or to the Mountains, as I do in downtown Greenville. We live in a great region guys!!

[Spartan]

One thing I've noticed about Upstate....those that grew up here, tend to separate Upstate more than those of us who have moved in recently, IMO.

[gs3]

Very true. Thats one reason why regional cooperation is relatively limited in the Upstate.

[krazeeboi]

Well, the Upstate is an entirely different beast than the Charleston-North Charleston and Columbia-Lexington examples you cited. With the latter two, we're merely only talking about suburbs within the greater urbanized areas of the principal cities. Mount Pleasant and North Charleston, while separate municipalities from Charleston, are still in Charleston's urbanized area. Lexington is in Columbia's urbanized area. However, with the Upstate, Anderson, Greenville, and Spartanburg were distinct urban areas from the start (and still are), have historically played significant and important roles in the Upstate at some point or another, and have their identities rooted within their individual histories. The boundaries between Charleston and North Charleston (and Mount Pleasant) and Columbia and Lexington can be said to be imaginary, but not between Anderson, Greenville, and Spartanburg--those boundaries are definitely real. That's not to say that it should result in a disjointed region however. It's no different for other similar regions like the Triad, the Triangle, Hampton Roads, etc. What they share in common with the Upstate is that they all consist of distinct cities that just happened to be located near each other. I don't think you can blame natives and long-term residents for essentially not wanting to compromise the distinct identity of their cities for something of a one-size-fits-all generic regional appellation (although that's good for marketing purposes). They are conscious of the region in which they live, but the identity and vibe of their own city is more important.

[interestedexpat]

I agree that the entire region would benefit from better cooperation. But the rivalries exist and are real. Part of the reason is a company comes looking at the upstate and chooses Greenville. Well, Anderson and Spartanburg were both in the running. So Greenville's gain is Anderson's and Spartanburg's loss. You can see how rivalry would develop.

Also each of the three cities is largely self-contained. For instance, I grew up in Anderson. I probably went to Spartanburg 3 times in 15 years. Why would I? Everything Spartanburg had - Anderson had too. Greenville, being the center, and a bit larger got a bit more attention. But still there wasn't much reason to go. The occasional concert. Greenville serves as a much bigger draw today as a cultural center, but that's really just the last 10 years or so, right?

I knew a lot of people who went to Hartwell Lake on the weekends from Greenville as a kid. But they didn't really go into Anderson to do it. They'd pass by on 85 down to exit 14 and head to Portman Shoals. At the time, Anderson really didn't have a presence on 85, so they didn't think they were in Anderson... and they weren't.

Finally - At one point the three cities were really not that different in size. In fact, wasn't Anderson the biggest of the three at one time? (I might have that wrong.) At anyrate - Greenville developed a progressive government and saw an explosion of growth while Anderson embraced rurality and stalled out and I don't know what Spartanburg did. So not only did Greenville then develop much faster, but Anderson (in some ways) grew to see itself an anti-Greenville. A sort of "they made their choice, we made ours" kind of thing. Now there is often a sense of Greenville-envy in Anderson. Whatever Greenville does - Anderson tries to do 5-10 yrs later.

This is kind of a rambling post with some person complaints, but it might help explain why the region is so divided. I suspect that will continue to change though as more newer people move in and the three cities merge commercially.

[goodbye]

Have any of you heard of the Upstate Alliance? When it comes to attracting these large corporations we are actually marketed as one by this organization and that is the way these companies typically view the region. This is obvious when you look at the placement of a few larger plants in the area. Since we have so many seperate governmental bodies with local interests this is usually viewed by them (and thus most citizens) as a rivalry to harvest the immediate benefits.

[gs3]

I agree that the entire region would benefit from better cooperation. But the rivalries exist and are real. Part of the reason is a company comes looking at the upstate and chooses Greenville. Well, Anderson and Spartanburg were both in the running. So Greenville's gain is Anderson's and Spartanburg's loss. You can see how rivalry would develop.

Also each of the three cities is largely self-contained. For instance, I grew up in Anderson. I probably went to Spartanburg 3 times in 15 years. Why would I? Everything Spartanburg had - Anderson had too. Greenville, being the center, and a bit larger got a bit more attention. But still there wasn't much reason to go. The occasional concert. Greenville serves as a much bigger draw today as a cultural center, but that's really just the last 10 years or so, right?

I knew a lot of people who went to Hartwell Lake on the weekends from Greenville as a kid. But they didn't really go into Anderson to do it. They'd pass by on 85 down to exit 14 and head to Portman Shoals. At the time, Anderson really didn't have a presence on 85, so they didn't think they were in Anderson... and they weren't.

Finally - At one point the three cities were really not that different in size. In fact, wasn't Anderson the biggest of the three at one time? (I might have that wrong.) At anyrate - Greenville developed a progressive government and saw an explosion of growth while Anderson embraced rurality and stalled out and I don't know what Spartanburg did. So not only did Greenville then develop much faster, but Anderson (in some ways) grew to see itself an anti-Greenville. A sort of "they made their choice, we made ours" kind of thing. Now there is often a sense of Greenville-envy in Anderson. Whatever Greenville does - Anderson tries to do 5-10 yrs later.

This is kind of a rambling post with some person complaints, but it might help explain why the region is so divided. I suspect that will continue to change though as more newer people move in and the three cities merge commercially.

[Spartan]

You grew up here, right Spartan? What do you think caused this attitude with the average citizen in South Carolina (it goes well beyond Upstate.....ie: Charleston and North Charleston in the Low Country, Columbia and Lexington in the Midlands, etc)?

Again, as an out of stater, when I'm in the Low Country, the whole area is simply Low Country and I enjoy all it has to offer to me, doesn't matter if I'm in Mt. Pleasant or North Charleston or one of the islands. Same with Upstate, again I take full advantage of all that is offered.

I snicker at these imaginary boundaries and municipal boundaries sometimes (actually I snicker more at how much credibility some give them). There is a good group in the Upstate trying for regional cooperation. This is the group that realizes a large company looking to locate here, will look at the labor pool in a radius from the site, vs. these silly municipal boundaries. Upstate has clearly made great strides in this area as far as business entities, but yet you still hear the average local citizen clearly separate.

Could it have been because of high school football rivalries?

[krazeeboi]

None of this seems to be any different than what I read about the Triangle (Raleighites speaking poorly of Durham, even though the major economic engine of the region is mostly within Durham County), the Bay Area (Oakland gets no love), and other multi-nodal metropolitan areas, no matter the size. The Upstate doesn't seem to be a special case here, but it will be interesting to see how things evolve over the next few years.

On a bit of a related sidenote, just about all of the people that I know living in Spartanburg, are from there, or go to school there display a certain pride in the city as opposed to the region. Greenville may get a side mention (nothing negative), but they tend to sing the praises of their own city in particular. I get the feeling that for them, the Upstate west of Greenville might as well be in the Lowcountry, LOL.

[CorgiMatt]

I agree that the entire region would benefit from better cooperation. But the rivalries exist and are real. Part of the reason is a company comes looking at the upstate and chooses Greenville. Well, Anderson and Spartanburg were both in the running. So Greenville's gain is Anderson's and Spartanburg's loss. You can see how rivalry would develop.

Also each of the three cities is largely self-contained. For instance, I grew up in Anderson. I probably went to Spartanburg 3 times in 15 years. Why would I? Everything Spartanburg had - Anderson had too. Greenville, being the center, and a bit larger got a bit more attention. But still there wasn't much reason to go. The occasional concert. Greenville serves as a much bigger draw today as a cultural center, but that's really just the last 10 years or so, right?

I knew a lot of people who went to Hartwell Lake on the weekends from Greenville as a kid. But they didn't really go into Anderson to do it. They'd pass by on 85 down to exit 14 and head to Portman Shoals. At the time, Anderson really didn't have a presence on 85, so they didn't think they were in Anderson... and they weren't.

Finally - At one point the three cities were really not that different in size. In fact, wasn't Anderson the biggest of the three at one time? (I might have that wrong.) At anyrate - Greenville developed a progressive government and saw an explosion of growth while Anderson embraced rurality and stalled out and I don't know what Spartanburg did. So not only did Greenville then develop much faster, but Anderson (in some ways) grew to see itself an anti-Greenville. A sort of "they made their choice, we made ours" kind of thing. Now there is often a sense of Greenville-envy in Anderson. Whatever Greenville does - Anderson tries to do 5-10 yrs later.

This is kind of a rambling post with some person complaints, but it might help explain why the region is so divided. I suspect that will continue to change though as more newer people move in and the three cities merge commercially.

[goodbye]

...

I also hear Greenvillians speak down about the rest of the Upstate. They speak as though Spartanburg were this crim-ridden dump that nobody in their right mind would ever go to, move to, or visit for any reason, so why shouldn't everything come to Greenville?

...

[Spartan]

You can also flip that entire statement around because I regularly hear that exact mentality spoken by Spartanburg residents about Greenville. These are the I have been educating them on the truth in an attempt to help correct their misguided beliefs.

[krazeeboi]

^I think that perhaps he has someone on another certain forum in mind. From my experiences with people that live in, have lived in, or are from Spartanburg, that person is definitely in the minority.

[distortedlogic]

Great post earlier Spartan! Thanks for sharing. As for the Gville looking down on the rest of the upstate thing, I can see how this holds true sometimes. As one in the psychological field, I can attest to the nature humans have (in general) of believing the group they belong to is the best. As you get more humans together, that is more people believing that particular group is better. To apply this to our cities, it makes some intuitive sense that "the bigger the city, the more easily it is to 'look down' on another" especially if it is perceived that the smaller city is the "have nots" (ie don't have an arena, big zoo, mass transit, impressive skyline, or whatever). Still, Greenvillians are as guilty as any other city inhabitants on this. And I dare say people in Sptbg or Anderson may see other "have not cities" (Greenwood, Aiken, etc) similarly (kinda how poeple look down on Pickens County sometimes, until it comes time to promote it's mountains and lakes).

I think more collaboration is occuring however. I was reading an article in GSA Business (the magazine itself is some collaboration if you think about it) about the Anderson Joes. When I first heard about the team using the mascot "Joes", I thought, "Why are they using that, Joe belongs to Gville?" But I realized that in many ways, Anderson's use of that name is a reflection to the connetion the two cities have to each other, and to the upstate as a whole (and he was born in Pickens Cty anyway, which is part of it too). There certainly is a reciprocating effect between the big three of the upstate. As each gets stronger, the other two benefit, etc. There is no real reason not to promote unity. Of course some competition is healthy, but there needs to be a balance. I think the leaders of all three (plus of Clemson and others) have figured that out.

[Spartan]

And I dare say people in Sptbg or Anderson may see other "have not cities" (Greenwood, Aiken, etc) similarly (kinda how poeple look down on Pickens County sometimes, until it comes time to promote it's mountains and lakes).

[interestedexpat]

Spartan - I also wanted to say - "great post". Thanks for sharing your experiences. Mine are almost identical but coming from the opposite side of the metro (Anderson).

One thought on the "looking down" comments. In my experience when people from Greenville slight people from Anderson it's not intentional. It's more that Greenvillians were not aware of Anderson. But when Anderson people slight people from Greenville it was very intentional (see the envy factor I mentioned earlier).

I too think this is changing as the region grows closer together.

I disagree with the comment that the region is a long way away from being contigeous. Take the Anderson to Greenville section along 85. If Audi were to develop at Hwy 86, that would leave only one or two exits along the stretch from Clemson Blvd in Anderson to 185 in Greenville without substantial industrial and retail development. If you get off the freeway near the Anderson exits you will find that residential development from Anderson is just now reaching and crossing over 85. I know that if you look around in Pelzer and Powdersville and Piedmont areas that is true too. I don't think the region is more than 10 years from feeling much more contigeous (esp if Audi and even more so Rolls make a signficant investment).

[digital_sandlapper]

Spartan, I read your post, and it made a lot of sense. However, I must slightly disagree with one point: that Greenville offers nothing that Spartanburg doesn't already have. Don't get me wrong, I like both cities. But that is not true. Greenville's downtown is a draw for Spartanburg and all Upstate residents. It is an experience that can only happen in downtown Greenville. Both of my brothers and their families live in Spartanburg, and I lived there as a child for several years. For the most part, you are right, there is no need for Spartanburg folks to travel to Greenville for daily needs. But for my brothers and many others, a trip to Greenville to shop, dine, or enjoy is commonplace and something to look forward to. They are both thrilled that Spartanburg IS getting better, however, but this has just started happening in the last 10 years or so.

Both of my brothers and their families love living in Spartanburg, and one has been there 30 years. However, both joke that Spartanburg is Greenville's "redneck brother." They may joke about that, but it is rooted in some reality, and they love it just the same.