Charlotte Knights AAA Ballpark in Third Ward

[CharlotteDave]

Michael Smith, the Center City Partner's guy, was on News14 today talking about the Knight's situation. He said that Don Beaver assured him just last week that he was still fully committed to the project. On the negative side, Smith said that in a best case scenario, construction on the park probably wouldn't began before early next year, and he sort of hinted that given all the financial turmoil, it might be longer than that. At least for the moment, things don't look very promising for 2010, but it still looks as if there might be a pretty good chance the ballpark will get built eventually.

[rockhilljames]

^Ha! I actually was thinking "Ayn Rand" when I was writing that, and I reconsidered and thought about deleting it. What I wanted to say way "civic obligation." That's a more suitable phrase - as socialist as it may sound. I think it sounds harsh. It wasn't meant like that. It was meant to be a rebuttal to the question: "why should I pay for YOUR baseball?" answer: "why should I pay for YOUR kids if I don't own any?" or "why should I pay for YOUR highways when I don't even own a car?" Because you are part of something that is bigger than yourself.

That argument loses ground based on the fact that you're comparing necessary services to luxury items. Society needs roads and schools, just as it needs law enforcement. The argument for public funding of luxury items only works if they are seen as an investment. While a great deal of effort and stats have been debated on this site over the years about whether or not sports entertainment is a worthwhile investment (and I have NO desire to re-visit that argument) it's really the only basis for justifying public funding of luxury items. Using your argument, that whether someone uses the service/event is immaterial, funding for public projects would be based on popularity and not on need. Plenty of people go to the movies, perhaps the government should start funding and building movie theaters, and give them away to the company that runs them in return for a $1 a year lease. Maybe we could begin building shopping malls at taxpayer expense.

Oh wait, that's a bad example, in some places we already do that...

[Charlotte_native]

But there is something innate to many about public venues and sports. It brings (some) people together, creates some civic pride, and has been around for all of written history. Precedent for public works such as stadiums and coliseums goes back at least as far as the Romans...right or wrong it is something important to many people.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[monsoon]

Yeah, but the Romans did not turn exclusive control thus all financial gains of The Coliseum to a private individual. It's not a compelling argument.

[maratletter]

Yeah, but the Romans did not turn exclusive control thus all financial gains of The Coliseum to a private individual. It's not a compelling argument.

No, the Romans turned over the exclusive control to dictators known as emperors.

Respectfully yours,

Vespasian

Titus

Domitian

Edited October 3, 2008 by maratletter

[JRNYP2C]

I have a feeling that this thing is dead in the water.

Based on the current and near-term economy, and Reese's never-ending legal saga, I seriously doubt this will come to fruition. Add the mounting construction costs that the Knights would have to make out of pocket, it's over.

Did anyone see the interview that FOX Charlotte had with Reese last week? The picture the Observer uses must be real old, because on TV, he looks old.

I did agree with some of the posts that Monsoon made a page or two back and it brought some things into perspective about Reese's point of view on the stadium and the whole land swap. In the FOX interview though, he came across as smug and contrite. His last response to Brien Blakely was "I will win." Sounded like a confident man.

I think the Knights will have to remain comfortable in SC and raise the parking lot rates next summer!

[Charlotte_native]

Sadly he will only win in ending the Knights Stadium, he'll never 'win' in getting us to build a major league stadium for a sport that says they have no plans or interest in coming to Charlotte. This makes him just come across as a child who says 'my plan or no plan' but even less intelligent since his plan is for something that won't even end up here.

[southslider]

Sadly he will only win in ending the Knights Stadium...

I'm more worried whether he will "win" in killing Brooklyn Village. It would be nice to actually have residents in 2nd ward other than geese. Maybe worst-case scenario, Spectrum can at least build something like a smaller Brooklyn Village in 3rd ward on the Knights stadium site. That is, if the Knights ballpark is truly dead and only the 2nd ward pieces of the land swap are still tied up in court appeals.

[Andyc545]

So if this stadium were deemed "done for", what would this mean for the 3rd Ward Park? Wasn't the park placed where it is due to the land swap? They've already spent so much time with Land Design drawing up the designs and getting ready to even start construction soon. For Reese killing one project, it is going to have its domino effect on many more... How sad that someone can get away with something like that and not be forced to pay for it.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Andyc545

[Guest]

So if this stadium were deemed "done for", what would this mean for the 3rd Ward Park? Wasn't the park placed where it is due to the land swap? They've already spent so much time with Land Design drawing up the designs and getting ready to even start construction soon. For Reese killing one project, it is going to have its domino effect on many more... How sad that someone can get away with something like that and not be forced to pay for it.

Your question is answered below...

Meck Co took action earlier in the year to allow the Bearden Park to proceed independant of the Baseball Park...

Edited October 6, 2008 by Guest

[Andyc545]

Your question is answered below...

I guess the bigger picture what I was trying to get at is what would happen to the Baseball park land then? Wasn't that park land? Would the land that the baseball sits on stay to the city? CMS? Or could it be sold to a private developer? It just seems that the land had its purpose and someone came to dispute what was being built on it. Now its going to sit an empty lot.

[Mobuchu]

^ I would hope they could divide that land up into 4 or 5 parcels and sell it off to developers. Or maybe another public use could go on the side facing the park helping draw people to that side.

[rooster8]

Assuming Beaver doesn't move the team (and I don't see many willing suitors right now), where else in the city could he construct a stadium? I seem to recall South End was discussed at one point. Is that site still available?

[monsoon]

^Seems to me there is a vast area of land on W. Morehead St. between I-277 and the Panthers stadium that would be perfect for this. That land is probably where Belzer wants to build a development given this is where the old coffee cup was located, but it would also seem to be a very unattractive place for this kind of develoment given it's proximity to I-277 and I-77. And right now, the condo market would also seem to be a bad investment. It's a perfect spot for a baseball stadium. It's freeway close, takes advantage of land with a huge uncorrectable defect (freeway), and this land has been derelict for decades.

You can see a map of this area here.

[UrbanFuture]

That land is in play last I heard. Beazer is no longer conducting any new business in Charlotte and the surrounding areas and have left the city. Rumor is that land is for sale to the tune of $42.3 million (RUMOR, not fact).

[monsoon]

^If it's $42M, then there is nothing stopping the Knights from buying it and building a stadium starting immediately.

[Charlotte_native]

That land is in play last I heard. Beazer is no longer conducting any new business in Charlotte and the surrounding areas and have left the city. Rumor is that land is for sale to the tune of $42.3 million (RUMOR, not fact).

It is/was in play, not sure the current status. We did a study of the Beazer land last year for a group from outside the city. There were numerous interested parties both inside and outside Charlotte. I think that price is a bit exaggerated though

Edited October 7, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[atlrvr]

Land is for sale....$42M is the right number (well, their asking price anyway).....Knights would only need half of that 20 acres, and could possibly build a stadium that could be expanded, as the configuration would be less restricted.

The knights weren't that interested regardless of price when it was an option several years ago. They are counting of walk-up traffic from office workers, and this site is probably just a bit too far to achieve that.

I still support Memorial stadium. Though it too is farther than most office workers would hike it will be served by both the streetcar and SE transit lines......the Knights, however, are too hung up on their "skyline in the outfield" view, and they can't orient a stadium with the batter looking west.

I have a feeling if it doesn't happen in 3rd Ward, it won't happen, until the city is prepared to pony up big time bucks and infrastructure to attract a MLB team....and no, Jerry Reese won't be leading that effort.

[Andyc545]

^Seems to me there is a vast area of land on W. Morehead St. between I-277 and the Panthers stadium that would be perfect for this. That land is probably where Belzer wants to build a development given this is where the old coffee cup was located, but it would also seem to be a very unattractive place for this kind of develoment given it's proximity to I-277 and I-77. And right now, the condo market would also seem to be a bad investment. It's a perfect spot for a baseball stadium. It's freeway close, takes advantage of land with a huge uncorrectable defect (freeway), and this land has been derelict for decades.

You can see a map of this area here.

I'd have to agree. This site seems perfect. It can accommodate traffic via the freeways well, and with some improvements, it can be just as connected for pedestrians in uptown and S. End. It would have superb views and due to the vast amounts of land, like Atlvr said, it could even be built with adequate space to make it expandable, so some day down the road it can accommodate whatever the future holds. Also, it wouldn't break up any of the street grid that seems to be diminishing in uptown, and honestly, the site has a lot of potential, it's like a blank canvas. However, planning on here now would push back a completion date even further back, and with inflation, a stadium here would solve one problem (getting away from Reese) but create another problem (even more $).

[Spartan]

It can accommodate traffic via the freeways well, and with some improvements, it can be just as connected for pedestrians in uptown and S. End.

No, the ped connections are worse at this site. You have 2 ways to get there- Cedar St and Morehead. They will have to build a lot more onsite parking because there is less parking to share. The appeal of going to dinner uptown and a ballgame after looses a lot of luster with that location. I can't argue against the practicality of it though. From a purely practical standpoint it is a better site.

[Andyc545]

No, the ped connections are worse at this site. You have 2 ways to get there- Cedar St and Morehead. They will have to build a lot more onsite parking because there is less parking to share. The appeal of going to dinner uptown and a ballgame after looses a lot of luster with that location. I can't argue against the practicality of it though. From a purely practical standpoint it is a better site.

I did say with improvements. Obviously right now it's a scary area to venture to. It does benefit by having direct connection with S. End, again with some improvements. Specifically meaning lighting, pedestrian walkways, and improvements to the street. It at least has the benefit of being close to uptown. If they can come with a solution to connecting S. End and Uptown, which is what's being tried upon now, then I think there may be a solution to the connectivity to this site, as well. After all, the main deterrent is 277 after all.

[Spartan]

I-277 and the RR bridge. Its probably a good 300 feet of dead space there.

[monsoon]

Actually they could share parking with the Panther's stadium. I could see where they could build some sort of joint parking at the corner of that property and then free up some of the land on the city side of the football stadium for other uses. On that side of the stadium is where you do want residential housing. The downtown is served by multiple modes of transit, so it should be no issue for people working in the towers.

[uptownliving]

Yeah but the Panthers are not looking to build any parking. They have all that they need.

And to walk to this site from the downtown office towers you have to cross 277 twice.....yes twice....Four times if you are making a round trip. Or you can walk through a tunnel under the railroad tracks. It would be a good 15 min+ walk to this site from most of the office towers.

If the Knights are counting on those office workers then I would say they would be less likely to walk to a Morehead site than the 3rd Ward site.

[nonillogical]

That part of town has so much potential though that I think it is perfectly viable looking at how the area could fill-in over the course of five years. It's not a far walk at all, it is more an issue of the dead space, and though I don't know what the plans are there or who owns the land, it seems like building the stadium would speed up that fill-in a lot. My office is moving over there, as are lots of others and with some condos just opening I think we'll see west Morehead come to life pretty quickly.

I would prefer that location if some good development takes its place in 3rd ward...after all it would be nice to spread out our entertainment destinations just a little bit and focus on making uptown more livable. I do hope it happens with either location though.

Edited October 8, 2008 by nonillogical