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Charlotte Knights AAA Ballpark in Third Ward


dubone

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^ Do you think he's interested in keeping them in SC, or interested in extinguishing their existance? I interpret his interest in the current home to mean the latter. If he can kill them team completely, then perhaps we'll be more active in pursuing a MLB team.....just my take on it.

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^ That's what my intuition was saying to me when I read about his latest actions.

Yahoo had a nice front-pager yesterday about professional teams that were most likely to leave their current homes, among these several baseball teams (I recollect the Royals, Rays and oft-mentioned Marlins as front-runners), so it could be Reese is homing in on one of these. But the economy now simply does not support expensive public-subsidized stadium building (which the article thankfully took note of), I just don't get what he is thinking. Perhaps Reese has some vendetta that has not come to light.

Edited by nowensone
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^Maybe, but it is one hell of a coincidence that Reese is the one atempting to buy it, as opposed to any number of developers. If his stated goal is to put up a hotel and shopping (don't remember exactly what the article had said) then he is trying to make this a destination, but isn't the Fort Mill park away from town? Wouldn't seem to fit, and if his goal is for a Charlotte MLB team then seemingly he'd save his resources for that eventuality, or begin building in DT Charlotte for it.

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As much as I support the land swap, I wish the Knights would just buy a piece of land near uptown and build a stadium. If Southend is too expensive, the go to Memorial Stadium, if thats too expensive then build it on North Tryon near Graham Street and the Double Oaks revitalization. The construction prices have apparently gone up $20 million over the past three years, ironically this could have been used to just buy the land and build a stadium. At first I was in favor of subsidizing the Knights, but their stubborness has really begun to irk me. Beggars can't be choosers and I'm not sure they deserve to have a perfect skyline view, be three blocks from the center of the city, not pay for their land, and have the county pay millions of dollars of legal fees for them to have these things. Its AAA baseball, not a corporate headquarters. BTW I'm still in support of the other elements in this plan, just not so much the Knights any more.

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As much as I support the land swap, I wish the Knights would just buy a piece of land near uptown and build a stadium. If Southend is too expensive, the go to Memorial Stadium, if thats too expensive then build it on North Tryon near Graham Street and the Double Oaks revitalization. The construction prices have apparently gone up $20 million over the past three years, ironically this could have been used to just buy the land and build a stadium. At first I was in favor of subsidizing the Knights, but their stubborness has really begun to irk me. Beggars can't be choosers and I'm not sure they deserve to have a perfect skyline view, be three blocks from the center of the city, not pay for their land, and have the county pay millions of dollars of legal fees for them to have these things. Its AAA baseball, not a corporate headquarters. BTW I'm still in support of the other elements in this plan, just not so much the Knights any more.

Am I missing something? How are the Knights the ones being stubborn!!!? Reese is being stubborn, not the knights.

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The Knights are being stubborn because they refuse to look at other options. As construction costs rose and it became apparent that there would be delays with the current plan yet they continue to stick with it despite the fact that they're reaching the point where it might never happen. Jerry Reese is also being stubborn, but the Knights apparently want their sweetheart deal or nothing.

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The Knights are being stubborn because they refuse to look at other options. As construction costs rose and it became apparent that there would be delays with the current plan yet they continue to stick with it despite the fact that they're reaching the point where it might never happen. Jerry Reese is also being stubborn, but the Knights apparently want their sweetheart deal or nothing.

They are going after their sweetheart deal because it was the only thing cost effective to them 3 years ago. The land swap was what made this whole thing possible. To call them stubborn is just wrong. They have little choice. Had they known 3 years ago that this was going to cost 20 million more by the time they actually got it out of the ground maybe they would have considered other options. But since they designed the ballpark for this site, got a great deal on the site and had a clear advantage with this site.

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.... But since they designed the ballpark for this site, got a great deal on the site and had a clear advantage with this site.
Have they actually done the architectural and engineering work in this regard? I've only seen some pretty renderings which would not have been much of an investment of their money.
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Have they actually done the architectural and engineering work in this regard? I've only seen some pretty renderings which would not have been much of an investment of their money.

There are formal site plans and architectural elevations that have been done for this site. Its been much more than pretty renderings.

Here is the rezoning petition. There has been additional work shown, this is all I have at my disposal however.

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planni...ns/2007-136.htm

Edited by Guest
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I seem to remember seeing something during the past year or two, with more detailed architectural renderings, however I'm unable to find it, so I cannot answer that question with any verifiable evidence. I can assure however, I have seen detailed siteplans and elevations, hopefully someone else has as well, and can give me some help? However I do recognize that in an open forum, ones written words are not as good as gold, so any discredit I might get is perfectly acceptable. As far as necessary engineering work, I do not know much about that.

Edited by Guest
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They are going after their sweetheart deal because it was the only thing cost effective to them 3 years ago. The land swap was what made this whole thing possible. To call them stubborn is just wrong. They have little choice. Had they known 3 years ago that this was going to cost 20 million more by the time they actually got it out of the ground maybe they would have considered other options. But since they designed the ballpark for this site, got a great deal on the site and had a clear advantage with this site.

No I agree they should have taken the original deal, but my point is 3 years down the line they are jeapordizing having any stadium at all by sticking with the original location/deal.

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No I agree they should have taken the original deal, but my point is 3 years down the line they are jeapordizing having any stadium at all by sticking with the original location/deal.

I still disagree with this. I think not chosing the deal jeopordizes this even further. The Beazer land has never been anything more than a speculation on this website. This is the BEST POSSIBLE location, at the best possible price. The would have to redesign whatever they have, buy Beazers land at a premium unsubsidized price, and get this thing off the ground. Construction is still going to be 60 million at this time, add in the 20 million dollar price tag for the beazer land, that they would most likely have to outbid someone for, and it goes from almost too expensive to way too expensive. Honestly I am not a huge fan of the 3rd Ward Park plan, so don't think i'm just a biased party, I personally would prefer it to be in a prominent location in southend. I personally feel Southend would benifit more from a entertainment venue, and would make the transition between southend and uptown more cohesive. However finding a location in southend would take a year long process of collecting enough land, or finding the right parcel. If it went up nearly 25 million in three years, another year is another 7 million dollars. The Knights were hooked up with this great land swap that is good for not just 3rd Ward, but second ward. How can you argue with that? It benifits tons of underutilized land.

Heres what I hate about Beazer land, other than the it being part of someones imagination.

1. It is so inexcessible from LYNX light rail

2. It is not an ideal walk from the square

3. Its really just an unpleasant location.

4. It will not help much in the revitalization of 3rd ward close to the square. Especially imagewise.

Edited by Guest
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I have to say that I disagree with a Knights Stadium helping revitalize 3rd Ward. The park has/will do that.

I had the strong opinion long ago the Memorial Stadium was the right location, and I still do.

If the 3rd Ward location works out for them, then fine, I'm not opposed. But I won't shed any tears if this part of the plan falls out and the rest of the land swap can proceed.

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I suppose I could get behind a park being built outside of Uptown, as long as it was in an in-close neighborhood. The trend of inner-city ballparks became fashionable with Camden Yards in the early 90's. Now it's all the rage. But some of the most beloved parks are vital parts of old neighborhoods (Fenway, Wrigley, Ebbets Field). In fact the neighborhood becomes defined by the tradition and community of having something so inclusionary. How about in Cherry? I am not sure it would work the same with minor league - so I guess I could see Charlotte trying to start a new trend especially if we could get MLB (in the future). But it might be something to be proud of - an a throwback to a different era (one which is not already the cause du jour - downtown revitalization).

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I think that the new Bryant Park development would be perfect for the Knights. It has great access with W. Morehead & Wilkinson, it's on the greenway, and has spectacular city views. There is plenty of land cleared and available plus a TIF is in place for infrastructure development. The stadium would make a great addition to the Charlotte School of Law, the planned retail, office, and residential.

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You guys seem to be completely missing the point. This stadium does not happen elsewhere. If they are calling it on the verge of being too expensive, they cannot buy land and then build it for cheaper than they have it right now.

Edited by Guest
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You guys seem to be completely missing the point. This stadium does not happen elsewhere. If they are calling it on the verge of being too expensive, they cannot buy land and then build it for cheaper than they have it right now.

That is why Mr. Reese needs to be sued for the difference in inflation so this can be funded from its original veins of $.

Edited by Andyc545
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....But some of the most beloved parks are vital parts of old neighborhoods (Fenway, Wrigley, Ebbets Field). In fact the neighborhood becomes defined by the tradition and community of having something so inclusionary. How about in Cherry? I am not sure it would work the same with minor league - so I guess I could see Charlotte trying to start a new trend especially if we could get MLB (in the future). But it might be something to be proud of - an a throwback to a different era (one which is not already the cause du jour - downtown revitalization).

Actually this did exist in Charlotte. The predecessor to the current Knights stadium was Griffith Park. It was later re-named Crockett Park after the owner of the park. It was more famous in later years for wrestling over baseball as people were more interested in that. There is a housing development there now, Olmstead Park, approximately in Sedgefield. In any case they didn't need a $100M tax subsidized stadium ($35M + $65M) in those days. I am not sure why neighborhood baseball needs it now.

crockett_park.jpg

More on this park here. You can see where a young Ric Flair used to wrestle.

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<br />Actually this did exist in Charlotte. The predecessor to the current Knights stadium was Griffith Park. It was later re-named Crockett Park after the owner of the park. It was more famous in later years for wrestling over baseball as people were more interested in that. There is a housing development there now, Olmstead Park, approximately in Sedgefield. In any case they didn't need a $100M tax subsidized stadium ($35M + $65M) in those days. I am not sure why neighborhood baseball needs it now. <br /><br /><img src="http://www.midatlanticgateway.com/Resource_Center/venues/crockettpark/images/crockett_park.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><br /><br />More on this park <a href="http://www.midatlanticgateway.com/Resource_Center/venues/crockettpark/crockett_park.htm" target="_blank"><b>here</b></a>. You can see where a young Ric Flair used to wrestle.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

Thanks for the pic. I had a summer job off of East Blvd. back when Crockett was still rocking. Folks should also remember that the only reason CLT ended up with a AAA franchise is that George Shinn thought he could eventually parlay that into a MLB franchise. AA suited the QC just fine for a long time and I imagine would again in a close-in, organic stadium should Don Beaver prove not to have the deep pockets needed for more expensive AAA. Bottomline, the most his revenue stream ever had for new ballpark was $20m. -- now costs are at $62m.

Later,

JAT

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  • 4 months later...

I am not sure, but I think that Bill James confirmed this week the money that was set aside by the county for this project, will now instead be spent on something else. This is related to the county's decision to halt all capital projects not already started, for at least the next 16 months.

If this is true, I would say this means this project is pretty much dead. So not only did this shady plan cost us a big park downtown that would would have most likely been finished by now, it also killed off any other plans to develop it in the foreseeable future. I think the tax money should be refunded back to the residents.

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The County money was going to Third Ward Park....not the Baseball Stadium.

They were going to sell the bonds back in January...but Mecklenburg County decided against that...they do plan to sell some bonds in July...but that will likely only include money for new CMS schools and maybe CPCC. There will be no money for Park and Rec. At the earliest I would say it would be Jan 2010 before some money became available for 3rd Ward Park.

The baseball stadium is on hold until all of the lawsuits that Jerry Reese has thrown at them are over and done with. Currently they are in the NC Court of Appeals.

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I'v been wondering about this project. How long can the Knights wait for a new stadium? I would think they would try to find another site within the city since this is taking too long.

I doubt this will happen, but the Braves moved their AAA team out of Richmond b/c they wanted them to have a downtown stadium. Richmond couldn't make up it's mind and the team ended up in Gwinett County. Now Richmond needs a team and will likely build a new stadium downtown for a AA team. It's so stupid b/c either way they had to build the stadium and now they are stuck with AA b/c no AAA teams are available.

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