Charlotte Knights AAA Ballpark in Third Ward

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

41 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Are you saying an MLB sized field/stadium can fit on this current site?  I thought folks smarter than I said this block is too small to support even a small MLB Stadium.

Never say never, but it would require Mint street being removed and land from Bearden and the block bound by Poplar, Mint and 4th to be absorbed into the project. Not impossible but improbable on that site.

[navigator319]

Are you saying an MLB sized field/stadium can fit on this current site?  I thought folks smarter than I said this block is too small to support even a small MLB Stadium.

Yes I am saying I am of the opinion a 30-35k person stadium could fit here and MLB would be thrilled with that.

Never say never, but it would require Mint street being removed and land from Bearden and the block bound by Poplar, Mint and 4th to be absorbed into the project. Not impossible but improbable on that site.

I don’t agree you would need to do any of that to make the currently bound site not only feasibly but desirable.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

13 minutes ago, navigator319 said:

 

Yes I am saying I am of the opinion a 30-35k person stadium could fit here and MLB would be thrilled with that.

I don’t agree you would need to do any of that to make the currently bound site not only feasibly but desirable.

The current lot is 100% not wide enough to fit a stadium with a large enough lower level, much less an upper deck. Actually could be an MLS stadium site, but not baseball.

Edited December 11, 2018 by CarolinaDaydreamin

[navigator319]

The current lot is 100% not wide enough to fit a stadium with a large enough lower level, much less an upper deck. Actually could be an MLS stadium site, but not baseball.

We can agree to disagree on this.

[Guest]

We can agree to disagree on this.

You can’t photoshop a single mlb ballpark at scale into that spot. He’s just correct. I’ve tried. Didn’t work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[navigator319]

You can’t photoshop a single mlb ballpark at scale into that spot. He’s just correct. I’ve tried. Didn’t work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t doubt that. I’m not sure what current parks have to do with if this site can or not though. It needs its own unique design. At 30-35 it would also be the smallest and would need MLB waiver for that size. I’m saying that size would fit and MLB would agree to a stadium that size.

[Hushpuppy321]

I think MLB would be cool for Charlotte (MLS even better) - But I just can't foresee any scenario (funding mostly) of that happening.   I wish we had a situation like Nashville's Billionare to fully fund a stadium on his own.

[SouthEndCLT811]

2 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I think MLB would be cool for Charlotte (MLS even better) - But I just can't foresee any scenario (funding mostly) of that happening.   I wish we had a situation like Nashville's Billionare to fully fund a stadium on his own.

$225M of $275M in revenue bonds..

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/11/07/nashville-metro-council-approves-financing-275-m-nashville-mls-stadium/835596001/

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I think MLB would be cool for Charlotte (MLS even better) - But I just can't foresee any scenario (funding mostly) of that happening.   I wish we had a situation like Nashville's Billionare to fully fund a stadium on his own.

Tepper has quite a few Billions. 

[Hushpuppy321]

13 hours ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

$225M of $275M in revenue bonds..

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/11/07/nashville-metro-council-approves-financing-275-m-nashville-mls-stadium/835596001/

Oh I see - Taxpayers are funding their Stadium.  I had thought otherwise.  But this is also the reason I don't think MLB would work.  We don't have enough funding or support of our state government to Cost share with Critical needs much less Stadium deals (NFL, MLB, MLS).  

I hate it but I think this is just another reason Nashville Metro is surging and Charlotte is more limited.

[Dale]

2 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Oh I see - Taxpayers are funding their Stadium.  I had thought otherwise.  But this is also the reason I don't think MLB would work.  We don't have enough funding or support of our state government to Cost share with Critical needs much less Stadium deals (NFL, MLB, MLS).  

I hate it but I think this is just another reason Nashville Metro is surging and Charlotte is more limited.

On the other hand, it could be argued that Nashville is going nowhere on transit.

[KJHburg]

5 hours ago, Dale said:

On the other hand, it could be argued that Nashville is going nowhere on transit.

and nowhere on roads and highways from what I saw last month either.  Nashville Davidson metro government is in bad financial shape believe it or not so not sure how much appetite there would be for a huge taxpayer funded stadium after the big transit vote fail.  And we have billionaires here in the Carolinas too that could be interested in a MLB though taxpayer support might be thin here of course. 

[Dale]

3 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

and nowhere on roads and highways from what I saw last month either.  Nashville Davidson metro government is in bad financial shape believe it or not so not sure how much appetite there would be for a huge taxpayer funded stadium after the big transit vote fail.  And we have billionaires here in the Carolinas too that could be interested in a MLB though taxpayer support might be thin here of course. 

Rays are in play. They just declared the Tampa deal dead.

[King of the Queen City]

I posted similar thoughts about a 30,000 or so capacity upgrade to BB&T Ballpark on the Panthers Stadium thread without realizing the same estimate had recently been discussed on this thread. I do think it is possible if we are creative with the design.  Unlike with other sports, baseball fields vary a lot in size and shape (only the diamond itself is the same at every park).  You would see more home runs at a smaller park which is more entertaining for the fans and is actually an advantage for the home team that plays half of its games there. If an upper deck (or two) is built directly above the lower stands then you could have covered seating right up to the edge of the field. I would not be opposed to closing Mint Street between the ballpark and Romare Bearden if necessary and letting the two parks directly connect to each other.

[King of the Queen City]

Okay, here’s an idea. We could transform BB&T  Ballpark into classic old school style park similar to the White Sox former home (Comiskey Park) which opened in 1910 and originally seated 28,000.

[atlrvr]

I see no reason why there can't be some cantilever of stands over Graham or Mint.....

Also some (a lot) of corporate outfield suites and below some field level restaurants, bar standing areas with translucent left outfield wall to take advantage of the grade....

You could have a really unique, but probably profitable design....

[videtur quam contuor]

The last row of the upper deck in old Comiskey was closer to the field than the first row of the upper deck in new White Sox park. Using vertical beams to support the upper deck brings the upper seats lower and further forward than any other method, putting them right over the field practically. The problem is so many interrupted sight lines because of the beams.

This would be unacceptable now.

Canitlever seating decks require more height and a upper seating area further back from the field, actually closer to the cantilever support structure at the outer walls of the stadium.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 hours ago, atlrvr said:

I see no reason why there can't be some cantilever of stands over Graham or Mint.....

Also some (a lot) of corporate outfield suites and below some field level restaurants, bar standing areas with translucent left outfield wall to take advantage of the grade....

You could have a really unique, but probably profitable design....

Teams make their $ in premium spaces. This stadium/stadium site isn't an improvement on the Tampa stadium to provide additional premium seats and suites. This stadium is a non starter.

[King of the Queen City]

I have always pulled for the Braves in the majors since they are the closest to home, but I would gladly switch my allegiance if we got a team of our own. I would personally prefer an expansion team over a relocation, but if the Rays did move here they should leave their name and history in Tampa and treat it like a new franchise. The only other relocation scenario that would make sense would be the White Sox since we already have history as their AAA team and they have to compete with the Cubs in a Chicago market that only really needs one team.

[King of the Queen City]

41 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

The last row of the upper deck in old Comiskey was closer to the field than the first row of the upper deck in new White Sox park. Using vertical beams to support the upper deck brings the upper seats lower and further forward than any other method, putting them right over the field practically. The problem is so many interrupted sight lines because of the beams.

This would be unacceptable now.

Canitlever seating decks require more height and a upper seating area further back from the field, actually closer to the cantilever support structure at the outer walls of the stadium.

You might be right on that, but I still think there has to be some creative way to make that site work for a MLB team if we think outside the box.  It is widely considered to be the best minor league park in the country, and we could just be content with AAA for now, but Charlotte is a city worthy of a major league franchise and the commissioner seems to agree.  The smaller park would create the kind of intimate experience that is causing fans to travel to LA to see their NFL teams play against the Chargers in the MLS StubHub Center. We could create something really unique.

[CriticalT]

6 minutes ago, King of the Queen City said:

You might be right on that, but I still think there has to be some creative way to make that site work for a MLB team if we think outside the box.  It is widely considered to be the best minor league park in the country, and we could just be content with AAA for now, but Charlotte is a city worthy of a major league franchise and the commissioner seems to agree.  The smaller park would create the kind of intimate experience that is causing fans to travel to LA to see their NFL teams play against the Chargers in the MLS StubHub Center. We could create something really unique.

Uhhh,  

Alot of people in LA are from other parts of the country.
LA in October, November and December is paradise compared to 65% of the other NFL cities.
There are about 3 people  going to Charger games because of the intimate stadium.  Everyone else is going because it was a vacation game and cheap. 

The White Sox aren't moving.  The Rays might.  But still the best AAA stadium will always be the worst MLB stadium.  

Jerry Reese was right.  Unfortunately Charlotte will just be used as leverage for the next 10 years.    Hopefully we won't get Amazon'd 

[King of the Queen City]

12 minutes ago, CriticalT said:

Uhhh,  

Alot of people in LA are from other parts of the country.
LA in October, November and December is paradise compared to 65% of the other NFL cities.
There are about 3 people  going to Charger games because of the intimate stadium.  Everyone else is going because it was a vacation game and cheap. 

The White Sox aren't moving.  The Rays might.  But still the best AAA stadium will always be the worst MLB stadium.  

Jerry Reese was right.  Unfortunately Charlotte will just be used as leverage for the next 10 years.    Hopefully we won't get Amazon'd 

I get that LA is made up of people from all over the country and you are right that it is a vacation destination with great weather, but you are wrong in saying that nobody is going there for the intimate experience. A number of articles have been written about this over the last couple years.  The only group of 3 fans there are Chargers fans. That poor team has to play 16 away games because there aren’t any Chargers fans in LA.

We might be used as leverage for the next decade or two like you said, but I’m truly hoping for an expansion franchise. If that is another decade or two down the road, I’m fine with keeping AAA for now.

Edited December 12, 2018 by King of the Queen City

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

1 hour ago, King of the Queen City said:

I get that LA is made up of people from all over the country and you are right that it is a vacation destination with great weather, but you are wrong in saying that nobody is going there for the intimate experience. A number of articles have been written about this over the last couple years.  The only group of 3 fans there are Chargers fans. That poor team has to play 16 away games because there aren’t any Chargers fans in LA.

We might be used as leverage for the next decade or two like you said, but I’m truly hoping for an expansion franchise. If that is another decade or two down the road, I’m fine with keeping AAA for now.

Stub Hub Center is a temporary fix, and a laughable one at that. Chargers are hurting their long term success by starting their term in LA, while playing in a stadium no Chargers fan wants to go to. This is a horrible example. At least the Raiders realize the first impression at their new stadium in Vegas is more important than playing there in the short term .

[King of the Queen City]

39 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Stub Hub Center is a temporary fix, and a laughable one at that. Chargers are hurting their long term success by starting their term in LA, while playing in a stadium no Chargers fan wants to go to. This is a horrible example. At least the Raiders realize the first impression at their new stadium in Vegas is more important than playing there in the short term .

StubHub Center is in fact a temporary fix, but that’s not the problem. The problem is that there are no Chargers fans to start with because nobody in LA wanted them and they alienated their fan base in San Diego.  The Rams had a long history in LA before moving to St. Louis, so they had something to build on when they moved back.  The Rams also moved to LA one year earlier than the Chargers so they had a head start. It was not a horrible example because fans of the opposing teams are traveling from all over the country to go see a game against the Chargers specifically for the intimate experience that will likely not be replicated in the NFL ever again. This has been well documented both last year and this year.  You have completely missed my point, which was to say that a small stadium can provide a unique experience.

https://www.axs.com/stubhub-center-makes-for-intimate-nfl-football-experience-like-none-ot-122258

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/17/16152772/chargers-stubhub-center-small-stadium-nfl

https://youtu.be/wn-y2lqC3gQ

[CTiger]

11 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Teams make their $ in premium spaces. This stadium/stadium site isn't an improvement on the Tampa stadium to provide additional premium seats and suites. This stadium is a non starter.

I think this is spot-on.  When looking at the current stadium it is easy to say that there is a possibility to add seats in the outfield to improve capacity.  The problem being that those seats do not boost revenue like seats behind home plate and in suites.  A good MLB park will have the bulk of the seats behind home plate and along the baselines, with the bargain-bin seats in the outfield.  If someone wants to put a profitable stadium in Charlotte, they would need to find a place to put premium seats, and that space just doesn't exist in the current stadium.