Charlotte Knights AAA Ballpark in Third Ward

[atlrvr]

Who did their park? I'm guessing the firm well-known firm out of Pittsburgh (can't remember their name). I think 3rd Ward Park will turn out ok, it's a little busy, but has decent flow....they just need to get pavers instead of concrete for the sidewalks.

[Miesian Corners]

Who did their park? I'm guessing the firm well-known firm out of Pittsburgh (can't remember their name). I think 3rd Ward Park will turn out ok, it's a little busy, but has decent flow....they just need to get pavers instead of concrete for the sidewalks.

Havlorson Design Partnership of Boston did the plan. Modern, fresh, cool, intersting water features and art. Outstanding job!

[Raintree21]

Anybody know what the holdup is on the start of construction? They aren't waiting on the 3rd lawsuit to be dismissed are they?

[JRNYP2C]

I wasn't able to read the article until yesterday and wanted to digest it before commenting.

He is way out there! Visionary is one word to toss around - but that would be too liberal. And I love the bible verse he quotes in the beginning. Kind of chastising everyone who doesn't believe him.

The one serious point he does make is of the land swap and the money portion involved. Other than that, it is just this rose-colored glasses look at what "may" happen in the future.

With entertainment dollars already stretched to the limit for most, I welcome AAA baseball as opposed to the big leagues. Just look at how much it costs to go to ONE Panthers game! Just the tickets alone are highway robbery! Forget about getting food and something to drink. The Checkers were a good deal when they were at Cricket. I used to go to several games a season. Now that they are at Bobcats Arena, their prices have gone up almost threefold. And food there is no cheaper.

The whole concept of putting together a Major League Baseball team and stadium by 2015.......wow! I sure hope he isn't working with the DOT! They can't get a road around Charlotte complete in half that time!

And the last comment about acting like an elite city - I have never thought of or tried to pretend that Charlotte is an elite city. One of the main reasons I really fell in love with this area almost 20 years ago was because it WAS NOT a big city. The only elite cities in the US, in my humble opinion are the real biggies like Boston, NY, Philly, DC, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, LA & SF.

As I have mentioned in other posts, I like Charlotte the way it is and the way it is progressing. I have no desire to live in a city that is trying to be something that it is not.

And yes Mr. Reese, the future is now and I think we are embracing it as best we can. Just be careful of squeezing too hard!

[uptownliving]

Update:

Meck Co and the Knights will be restructureing the Lease Agreement so that the Knights can go ahead and get started on the Infrastructure Improvements to MLK, Graham, Mint, and 4th. This has been held up because the original lease stipulated that clear title to the 3rd Ward Park site has to be in place before construction could begin. The clear title to the 3rd Ward Park can't happen until the Jerry Rease lawsuit saga is settled. So this is their way of getting started on the infrastructure items that won't be affected by the lawsuits.

[Charlotte_native]

^Does this affect the park getting started or are the lawsuits still holding that up?

[uptownliving]

The lawsuits are holding up the construction of the park and the stadium. However they can go ahead with the infrastructure improvements....unless of course Reease wants to sue the City/County for making infrastructure improvements to streets.

[New Name]

The lawsuits are holding up the construction of the park and the stadium. However they can go ahead with the infrastructure improvements....unless of course Reease wants to sue the City/County for making infrastructure improvements to streets.

He might have BETTER improvements for the streets in mind.

[monsoon]

The paper today has an article that suggests the Knights have not been able to hold up their part of the deal. That is, they can't get a bank to finance the stadium they said they would build in return for getting all of this public subsidized land. Wasn't this one of the requirements for the whole complicated deal to go through? Who wants to bet the tax payers will be put on the hook for this portion as well?

[HopHead]

The paper today has an article that suggests the Knights have not been able to hold up their part of the deal. That is, they can't get a bank to finance the stadium they said they would build in return for getting all of this public subsidized land. Wasn't this one of the requirements for the whole complicated deal to go through? Who wants to bet the tax payers will be put on the hook for this portion as well?

It's also b/c of Jerry Reese's frivolous lawsuits with the park... I thought they were suppose to amend part of the deal so the Knights could move ahead with some more preliminary work despite these two things not being complete? Taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for this.

[monsoon]

^I guess that depends upon one's perception of this deal. If it was such a clean cut deal that followed the intent of NC State law then I don't see where Reese would stand a chance. But because no politician wants to be identified with actually spending tax money on this project and having their chains jerked by the uptown interests that want this ballpark, the complicated shell game they have cooked up to hide all of the connections, has opened them up to litigation by the courts.

[Charlotte_native]

^A lawsuit, valid or frivolous, that is current (not settled one way or another) is a cloud on title. No surprise banks don't want to commit to lending until it is cleared up. This doesn't imply, at all, whether Reece has good legal standing or not. This doesn't mean the Knights aren't living up to anything.

Because we've never had tort reform, anyone can file a lawsuit about just about anything, so the simple fact that Reece is filing them doesn't mean there is (or isn't) anything shady going on. His suits will have to go through the process no matter how they are viewed from the beginning, there is no simple early review other than his first hearing or two. Those are not immediate and take time. So far all of his suits have been thrown out of court so, at least those, have not had merit to move through the system. I would assume, with so much scrutiny for so long, that if there were something purly against the intent of any regulation or law it certainly would have come to light by now.

I would have to say that the fact that the suits are able to hold up the process should alleviate any big 'conspiracy' theories that 'uptown interests' can get anything they want. If they had all that power and control certainly this would be contained and thrown out quickly. Nice to know, even for frivolous suits, the system respects the rights of all and allows everyone their day (or day after day after day after day in the case of Reece) in court.

As for a shell game, one could view this as an attempt to hide something, or perhaps it is just because so many players have so many parcels with various locations and values, that the changes are complicated. So far what they are doing is public, but if you aren't used to reading these massivly long contracts and docs they might seem confusing but be assured that plenty of attorney's and others have reviewed them thoroughly. The city/county are giving up land, and getting land. Developers who already have land, are getting different land. The plans, as I see them and only as opinion, are great for the city providing a park, a stadium, affordable housing, market-rate housing, mixed use facilities, more open green area in 2nd Ward, residential where now there are just offices and parking lots...

Edited March 18, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[Charlotte_native]

It's also b/c of Jerry Reese's frivolous lawsuits with the park... I thought they were suppose to amend part of the deal so the Knights could move ahead with some more preliminary work despite these two things not being complete? Taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for this.

They are. Initially their part of the deal said they couldn't start without clear title. They are amending it to change that, but that is only from the perspective of the city/county -- that doesn't mean banks have to pony up if they aren't comfortable that Reece won't hold this up indefinitly.

At some point I wish he'd give up if all this does is hold something up with no chance of his plans. If he won't, I do hope they finally counter-sue and begin costing him and his ghost supporters as much as he is costing us. Where is the outrage from all the tax protection folks that don't like a waste of public money? He is costing tons of legal fees, holding up new property tax revenue, stopping the rest of us from enjoying what is to come, and he is asking for quite a bit of public handout and subsidised land in his proposals.

[uptownliving]

I think it is hard to make the argument that Meck Co is trying to hide something in the Knights deal when all the contracts and lease agreements are available for the entire world to view on their website.

In the Observer article it says that the Knights have the financing for the Stadium lined up. I think that they will be able to close once the lawsuits are resolved. What bank in their right mind would close on financing for a building that didnt have clear title to the land?

[Charlotte_native]

What bank in their right mind would close on financing for a building that didnt have clear title to the land?

If you find one let me know! Banks have always been VERY particular about title exceptions even in the free wheelin' days before this recent collapse -- of all the loose lending regs of recent years, title issues were rarely what was overlooked.

[HopHead]

They are. Initially their part of the deal said they couldn't start without clear title. They are amending it to change that, but that is only from the perspective of the city/county -- that doesn't mean banks have to pony up if they aren't comfortable that Reece won't hold this up indefinitly.

At some point I wish he'd give up if all this does is hold something up with no chance of his plans. If he won't, I do hope they finally counter-sue and begin costing him and his ghost supporters as much as he is costing us. Where is the outrage from all the tax protection folks that don't like a waste of public money? He is costing tons of legal fees, holding up new property tax revenue, stopping the rest of us from enjoying what is to come, and he is asking for quite a bit of public handout and subsidised land in his proposals.

I was actually referring to taxpayers footing the bill for the stadium, which I thought Monsoon was eluding to. But yes, Reese is costing us money now... and that's what irks me aside from his argument that MLB would actually be ready to come here.

[Charlotte_native]

I was actually referring to taxpayers footing the bill for the stadium,

Oh, sorry, the Knights are responsible for building it, hence the need for financing!

[monsoon]

Oh, sorry, the Knights are responsible for building it, hence the need for financing!

The shell game they are playing to hide involvement is confusing to many. Needless to say that without significant taxpayer resources being offered in this deal (land) this project would not be happening because it isn't financially viable on its own. The Knights are always free to purchase a plot of land downtown and build a stadium without these tricky deals. It would be a relatively simple thing to do and they could have a stadium there by next year if they took this approach, and nobody would be filing lawsuits to stop it.

The fact of the matter however is they can't and won't make that kind of financial commitment to the project because they know they can't make enough money to take the above approach. So now we have a land deal that involves the county, the city, the school system and god knows who else that in its complexity has setup a situation where the law lets them be sued which has thrown a wrench in the works. All to hide the fact that it is the taxpayers that will be paying for most of this project.

There are plenty of ways for this deal to be setup so that it would be bulletproof to any lawsuit and any attempts to to do so would be fruitless. But those require the goverment, the CCCP, the Knights, and the others involved to be up front that the taxpayers will be paying for most of this baseball stadium which none of them have the backbone to do. They know that complicated shell games are the best bet from having to deal with it in this public manner.

Amazingly in this time of economic distress, when the banks themselves may be having to let go of 1000s of people before it is all said and done, when people are losing their homes in this city, there is a baseball team that wants to get financing for a stadium that nobody really needs. My guess is the only way it is going to get built now is if the county goes back on it's word that certain conditions have to be met before they would proceed.

And where is Mayor Pat McCroy in all of this? He is putting TV commercials on the air where he says that Raleigh won't give him the money to fight crime, but the local goverment can spend 10s of millions on a baseball stadium. Oh yeah, you are not supposed to figure that part out.

[Charlotte_native]

All to hide the fact that it is the taxpayers that will be paying for most of this project.

There are plenty of ways for this deal to be setup so that it would be bulletproof to any lawsuit and any attempts to to do so would be fruitless. But those require the goverment, the CCCP, the Knights, and the others involved to be up front that the taxpayers will be paying for most of this baseball stadium which none of them have the backbone to do. They know that complicated shell games are the best bet from having to deal with it in this public manner.

Do you have proof of this or is it opinion? Specifically that 'taxpayers...will be paying for most of this project' because everything I've read shows specifically that The Knights will pay for thier stadium and taxpayers will pay for infrastructure around it in the amount of $7million. If there is proof that something underhanded is going on, or if we the taxpayers are paying for more than we've been told -- then I think many people would line up to oppose this project.

Furthermore, as stated earlier, you can file a lawsuit about anything you want whenever you want, which is what Reece is doing. Maybe this deal is bulletproof since his suits have been all thrown out so far and appear to most to be 'fruitless'.

You'd think with all the scrutiny by Reece, Diehl, public attorney's, the state, and various courts, that if there were some hidden agenda 'shell game' going on, that one of them would have found it and made it public. None have though.

Maybe it just is what it is. A couple landowners are exchanging land, the city - county are changing where their land is, infrastructure funds that were being spent are still being spent, and a sports team is building their own stadium.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[HopHead]

Well, to no one's suprise after last night's City Council meeting to approve more site work for the stadium, Reese indicated he will file another lawsuit. This one will say the county is breaking it's promise to taxpayers about using the bond money for a park (which Reese probably doesn't give 2 you know whats about). From what council members were saying they did this approval b/c they knew it would trigger a lawsuit from him. They now want to see if it has merit. I still want to see his plans for this MLB stadium and his phantom supporters with their checkbooks...

[Raintree21]

I hate to report it, but Jerry Reese filed his threatened third lawsuit yesterday and asked for a temporary restraining order preventing any further work to be performed. The only good news was that today, the judge denied the restraining order.

[Andyc545]

I am REALLY beginning to get sick of this Reese guy....

[monsoon]

Do you have proof of this or is it opinion? Specifically that 'taxpayers...will be paying for most of this project' because everything I've read shows specifically that The Knights will pay for thier stadium and taxpayers will pay for infrastructure around it in the amount of $7million. If there is proof that something underhanded is going on, or if we the taxpayers are paying for more than we've been told -- then I think many people would line up to oppose this project

How much would it cost someone to buy this plot of land and I think you have your answer.

[HopHead]

I am REALLY beginning to get sick of this Reese guy....

He's like an annoying fly that won't go away... I saw on the news yesterday that almost everyone involved with these lawsuits (aside from Reese) anticipate the remainder of his lawsuits to be dismissed. I think we all know his claims don't hold much merit, especially considering he's not really interested in the 3rd Ward park like his lawsuit claims.

[Andyc545]

Officially, the judge denied the lawsuit that Reese was attempting to make. The O did have an awesome rendering that I don't recall seeing before. Think it's worth posting here.

I can't wait until next summer (hopefully) where I can go enjoy a game, a hot dog, and uptown at the same time. I try to get to get a game or two a year down in Fort Mill, but this is going to change everything for me being in uptown.