LRguy21

Update.......Little Rock National Airport.

427 posts in this topic

After looking at the last thread about LIT............i have just a few questions that i hope some people in Little Rock can answer for me:

1. What about the proposed new terminal. I remember reading something about it in the ADG about a year or so ago. I few out of LIT recently and the terminal looks very good............execpt the ticket counter area thats just a little small......and btw......where are they going to put United? and what if......... lets say Airtran or Jetblue or XYZ wants to come in........where do we put them?

2. Upgrade of Flights........off the top of my head.......i can think of Frontier (CRJ-700's to ERJ-170's) but we lose a flight. But besides that, were still all rejonial jets execpt for the 1 or 2 dailys to ATL on Delta and the 3 to MEM on Northwest. So that leaves us with:

UsAir............CRJ-700 to maybe CRJ-900?

Contential..........i dont think so.

American.....My wet dream....a MD-80 to DFW.

United...maybe once the route matures.......ERJ145 to CRJ-700 with Expluss?

Southwest............All 737.

Northwest.........CRJ to CRJ-900 or ERJ-170? hopefully not A320 to CRJ-200

Delta............CRJ-900

3. Any New routes? LAX which is long overdue. Bay area? mabye MIA? PHL? JFK? LGA? MSY? FLL? or what about routes that need or could suport more flights?

4. Any New Airlines? My blessing was answered with UA coming back to LIT. hopefully they can make it work now. What about Air Tran to ATL or MCO? I love Delta but $800 to fly to ATL in a CRJ sucks. Midwest Airlines? Express Jet............which i believe could make LIT work well with the right advertising.

Any insight?

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After looking at the last thread about LIT............i have just a few questions that i hope some people in Little Rock can answer for me:

1. What about the proposed new terminal. I remember reading something about it in the ADG about a year or so ago. I few out of LIT recently and the terminal looks very good............execpt the ticket counter area thats just a little small......and btw......where are they going to put United? and what if......... lets say Airtran or Jetblue or XYZ wants to come in........where do we put them?

2. Upgrade of Flights........off the top of my head.......i can think of Frontier (CRJ-700's to ERJ-170's) but we lose a flight. But besides that, were still all rejonial jets execpt for the 1 or 2 dailys to ATL on Delta and the 3 to MEM on Northwest. So that leaves us with:

UsAir............CRJ-700 to maybe CRJ-900?

Contential..........i dont think so.

American.....My wet dream....a MD-80 to DFW.

United...maybe once the route matures.......ERJ145 to CRJ-700 with Expluss?

Southwest............All 737.

Northwest.........CRJ to CRJ-900 or ERJ-170? hopefully not A320 to CRJ-200

Delta............CRJ-900

3. Any New routes? LAX which is long overdue. Bay area? mabye MIA? PHL? JFK? LGA? MSY? FLL? or what about routes that need or could suport more flights?

4. Any New Airlines? My blessing was answered with UA coming back to LIT. hopefully they can make it work now. What about Air Tran to ATL or MCO? I love Delta but $800 to fly to ATL in a CRJ sucks. Midwest Airlines? Express Jet............which i believe could make LIT work well with the right advertising.

Any insight?

LRguy21,

I've been intending to respond to your post for some time, and today's newspaper article reminded me...

1 - I'm unsure of the status about the new terminal, but I'm certain that it is still alive and well - funding being the primary question of course. I don't think that its helped that traffic in 2007 seems to have leveled from 2006 - no significant passenger boarding increases unfortunately. I'm sure though over the long term the outlook is for it to increase substantially, so the need will continue to increase.

2 - Note today's article in the DemGaz (Business Section) on the preponderance of Regional Jets and their significant impact (negatively) on congestion in the sky and at airports across the country. Most poignantly, they note that this trend has spread to ALL airports - even between large markets - for two reason: first, passenger demands for more flight options (more frequency with smaller planes) and second, the significant cost savings to the airlines that operate them in comparison to "mainline" aircraft. So, its not as much of a small market issue anymore since its so prevalent everywhere. Fortunately, Little Rock is just over the cusp in size/traffic that some mainline service remains - you'll find that similar markets (granted, less airport traffic) such as Shreveport, Jackson, Des Moines, etc. aren't as fortunate. LIT at approx. 2.4M total boardings/deplanes barely makes the cut, and even at airports with slightly more traffic, such as Tulsa (3.0M) have noticeably more mainline...particularly from the standpoint that "some" is offered on almost all airlines serving that market.

3 - I would hope for LAX and would assume that has been a priority. You know of course that LIT has been in discussions with Mexican airlines about future (long term) direct service. As unlikely as that sounds, it is well documented. BTW - I wouldn't expect to see SWA adding Denver anytime soon with both United and Frontier already serving that market. I'm still shocked that XNA has added Miami and Raleigh...what an unusual market up there - totally driven by business traffic.

4 - The addition of United (again) was welcome and expected, and provides service to LIT by ALL the primary carriers. The fact that we have two low-cost carriers is a coup really (Southwest and Frontier). I would like to see ExpressJet offer service....it seems to be all around us and I'm surprised this hasn't come about - perhaps in the near future. They offer direct connections to some unique markets not offered currently.

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I'm still shocked that XNA has added Miami and Raleigh...what an unusual market up there - totally driven by business traffic.

Very strange, but great for the state.

Not only do they serve as many cities as LIT, they offer MD-80s to Dallas and Chicago (which often near or exceed sell outs).

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Very strange, but great for the state.

Not only do they serve as many cities as LIT, they offer MD-80s to Dallas and Chicago (which often near or exceed sell outs).

Yes, it is great for the state. That wouldn't be possible at XNA without first, the disproportionately high business traffic that (often) pays a premium for tickets and second, a dominant carrier (American). A low-cost carrier would be great up there for lowering prices and increasing traffic, but you'd likely see discontinuation of mainline flights at the new price points.

I'm still of the opinion that AA dropped mainline in Little Rock partly b/c of the lawsuits surrounding the crash of flight 1420 in 1999 - which was clearly the fault of the pilots. Ironically, I just noticed that that flight is the only crash of an MD80 in American Airlines history (surprising considering the vast number of that aircraft in their fleet). When AA bought TWA they continued the five flights from LIT to STL per day on MD80's, and they were packed to the gils when AA just cancelled the service...strange their pull-out...

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Hey, thanks for the reply. Yes, i did read that article in the ADG on firday i guess it was. Yea, we are pretty lucky to have the mainline we have, but at the same time, Des Moines does see a 757.......or did by united and Jackson has much more Delta Mainline then LIT does...... Has for XNA.........you can really only say that Walmart is behind all the airport growth. Im happy for them that they have MIA, LAX, LGA, etc on AA. I just wish that they would give us our mainline back, but when cities like Pittsburg doent even have AA mainline, i guess we should just get inline. I totally agree with that part on the AA mainline situation in LIT. I was on one of the last AA flight to DFW on the MD-80's and it was PACKED!!! and this was 2002. and has for the STL flights, had they not pulled the hub, we might still have them and they were PACKED too. There has to be a reason that we have 10 daily Flights all on CRJ-700's. Then you have your 3 or 4 to ORD plus 3 other ERJ flgihts. Oh well, with them shrinking.......lets just hope we keep all the flights we can. All i can hope for is maybe a 3rd daily and maybe the return of the DFW flights.

WE really really need a LAX flight and a NYC flight. we have got to be one the biggest city in the country without any NYC flight. As for Southwest..... i dont know what the deal is. Why not a Nashville flight or a Kansas city flight. I would wheather have other cities on SW then 7 daily to Love field. If they were in the future to get that AWSOME E-190, they would have so many other cities from LIT. I guess its just hard to fill a 737 from LIT. Although i will say that every time i fly to vegas or phoenix, thoes flights are JAM PACKED!!

Lets just see what the end of 2007 brings us.

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Hey, thanks for the reply. Yes, i did read that article in the ADG on firday i guess it was. Yea, we are pretty lucky to have the mainline we have, but at the same time, Des Moines does see a 757.......or did by united and Jackson has much more Delta Mainline then LIT does...... Has for XNA.........you can really only say that Walmart is behind all the airport growth. Im happy for them that they have MIA, LAX, LGA, etc on AA. I just wish that they would give us our mainline back, but when cities like Pittsburg doent even have AA mainline, i guess we should just get inline. I totally agree with that part on the AA mainline situation in LIT. I was on one of the last AA flight to DFW on the MD-80's and it was PACKED!!! and this was 2002. and has for the STL flights, had they not pulled the hub, we might still have them and they were PACKED too. There has to be a reason that we have 10 daily Flights all on CRJ-700's. Then you have your 3 or 4 to ORD plus 3 other ERJ flgihts. Oh well, with them shrinking.......lets just hope we keep all the flights we can. All i can hope for is maybe a 3rd daily and maybe the return of the DFW flights.

WE really really need a LAX flight and a NYC flight. we have got to be one the biggest city in the country without any NYC flight. As for Southwest..... i dont know what the deal is. Why not a Nashville flight or a Kansas city flight. I would wheather have other cities on SW then 7 daily to Love field. If they were in the future to get that AWSOME E-190, they would have so many other cities from LIT. I guess its just hard to fill a 737 from LIT. Although i will say that every time i fly to vegas or phoenix, thoes flights are JAM PACKED!!

Lets just see what the end of 2007 brings us.

LRguy21,

Well, to clarify/correct:

1 - New York: there are direct flights from LIT (2 a day). I've flown them. Continental to Newark (one of three NYC airports).

2 - Des Moines: I don't find any 757's out of DSM, and while I could be wrong, I would seriously doubt there ever were, at least in modern history (were you confusing 737-500's with 757?). DSM traffic has grown signficantly in the past 5 years or so, but before that, traffic was half of LIT. I did find that they have quite a bit of mainline service on United to Denver (A319's and 737's). But remember, DSM has no low-fare carrier commanding (or drawing) a lot of the service (LIT has two: SWA and Frontier) - so all of the capacity is served by the traditional carriers which results in the likelyhood of more mainline flights. This is the sole reason that XNA does have some mainline - that and the fact that they command premium prices from the disproportionate business traffic.

3 - Jackson: Delta has 7 flights per day with 3 mainline, same as Little Rock. LIT also has ALL mainline on NWA to Memphis (A319's, DC-9's). All-in-all, I wouldn't think of trading LIT service for JAN.

4 - SWA: While I'm a fan of Southwest, to be honest, I'd rather see an increase in service/equipment from the traditional carriers than expanded SWA service. I think it would provide healthier competition and provide more connection options. Example: I use to hope for SWA service to Orlando, but now that this is provided by Delta, I prefer that it remain as such.

5 - LAX: Yes, this is really needed. I anticipate either Delta or AA to add this service. OKC just received service to LAX on Delta Connection as an example.

All in all, I don't think its hard to fill 737's or A319's or MD80's at all from LIT....that's all we used to have in the mid-1990's (at the same traffic level). The business model has changed EVERYWHERE...more flights/options on smaller aircraft. Being 6'-6", I prefer size over frequency (ugh...that sounded weird!).

As you can tell, I'm an airline buff! Sorry for the long rant.

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I guess most of you noticed this but Ark Times published confirmation of a rumor that the Aeromexico flight out of LIT is looking more and more likely.

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I guess most of you noticed this but Ark Times published confirmation of a rumor that the Aeromexico flight out of LIT is looking more and more likely.

Yes, I saw that today though the airport was quick to comment that (unfortunately) it wasn't imminent.

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Is there a US customs area at LIT?

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Is there a US customs area at LIT?

I believe so - at least there used to be.

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If the aiport has customs, why is it not "Little Rock International Airport."

It's not a big deal, but adds a little to the perception.

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If the aiport has customs, why is it not "Little Rock International Airport."

It's not a big deal, but adds a little to the perception.

Well, many people - like the airport commission (and me personally) - think it's ridiculous when airports call themselves "international" without any actual international service...hence the reason the Little Rock Airport Commission selected the term "national" for the airport's name. There are already too many airports that try to convince themselves otherwise by adopting that term. Its a false perception.

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I just read on Airliners.net that American has presumably dropped St. Louis flights from Little Rock in their winter timetable. Wow...no love lost from AA on LIT yet again...

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LRguy21,

Well, to clarify/correct:

1 - New York: there are direct flights from LIT (2 a day). I've flown them. Continental to Newark (one of three NYC airports).

2 - Des Moines: I don't find any 757's out of DSM, and while I could be wrong, I would seriously doubt there ever were, at least in modern history (were you confusing 737-500's with 757?). DSM traffic has grown signficantly in the past 5 years or so, but before that, traffic was half of LIT. I did find that they have quite a bit of mainline service on United to Denver (A319's and 737's). But remember, DSM has no low-fare carrier commanding (or drawing) a lot of the service (LIT has two: SWA and Frontier) - so all of the capacity is served by the traditional carriers which results in the likelyhood of more mainline flights. This is the sole reason that XNA does have some mainline - that and the fact that they command premium prices from the disproportionate business traffic.

3 - Jackson: Delta has 7 flights per day with 3 mainline, same as Little Rock. LIT also has ALL mainline on NWA to Memphis (A319's, DC-9's). All-in-all, I wouldn't think of trading LIT service for JAN.

4 - SWA: While I'm a fan of Southwest, to be honest, I'd rather see an increase in service/equipment from the traditional carriers than expanded SWA service. I think it would provide healthier competition and provide more connection options. Example: I use to hope for SWA service to Orlando, but now that this is provided by Delta, I prefer that it remain as such.

5 - LAX: Yes, this is really needed. I anticipate either Delta or AA to add this service. OKC just received service to LAX on Delta Connection as an example.

All in all, I don't think its hard to fill 737's or A319's or MD80's at all from LIT....that's all we used to have in the mid-1990's (at the same traffic level). The business model has changed EVERYWHERE...more flights/options on smaller aircraft. Being 6'-6", I prefer size over frequency (ugh...that sounded weird!).

As you can tell, I'm an airline buff! Sorry for the long rant.

Actually, DSM had 757 service on United as recently as 2000-2003. They used to piggy-back the 757 service to Chicago along with the multiple 757's to Chicago from Omaha.

Filling a plane is one thing, but making money with them is another. Just because the seats are full doesn't mean the airline is making money on the flight. You have to command premium yeilds in order to get the bigger planes to fly to your city. In other words, less discount flying and more Business and First Class flying has to happen.

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Actually, DSM had 757 service on United as recently as 2000-2003. They used to piggy-back the 757 service to Chicago along with the multiple 757's to Chicago from Omaha.

Filling a plane is one thing, but making money with them is another. Just because the seats are full doesn't mean the airline is making money on the flight. You have to command premium yeilds in order to get the bigger planes to fly to your city. In other words, less discount flying and more Business and First Class flying has to happen.

That makes sense since it was "piggybacking" service from Omaha, which is a larger market (and much larger for air service).

And yes, you are absolutely correct that a full plane doesn't mean it is making money - it has to do with premium airfares...per my comment about why XNA has some mainline even though it is a relatively small market - due to it being business-centric.

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That makes sense since it was "piggybacking" service from Omaha, which is a larger market (and much larger for air service).

And yes, you are absolutely correct that a full plane doesn't mean it is making money - it has to do with premium airfares...per my comment about why XNA has some mainline even though it is a relatively small market - due to it being business-centric.

I just find it hard to believe that XNA generates THAT much traffic in comparison to LIT. I realize that some of those flights are subsidized by Wal-Mart. In other words, they are paid for regardless if they are full or not. But maybe I just don't completely grasp the whole business climate up there.

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I just find it hard to believe that XNA generates THAT much traffic in comparison to LIT. I realize that some of those flights are subsidized by Wal-Mart. In other words, they are paid for regardless if they are full or not. But maybe I just don't completely grasp the whole business climate up there.

I don't understand it either. XNA has less than half the passengers as LIT. NWA does have a lot of business travelers, but LR is still the economic capial of the state plus it has more than twice the population for leisure travel potential.

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Im sorry, i was confusing Des Moines with Omaha for some reason. But im glad i wasnt totally wrong. I just read on Airliners.net that LIT-STL on AA will be ending December 12 i believe......check date but the flights will deffently be ending. Which really makes me mad because i try to advoid DFW and ORD like the plague. I dont understand STL and AA. It makes no since why they even have it in their system if thy dont even get good use of it. My idea would be to build up STL and use that as a reliever for the Cluster F@#k that is known as Chicago Ohare. I mean, im not sayint a 400 flt a day hub or even a 300 flt a day hub. but maybe like 250 with some reall service. But DAMN!!! that makes me mad. I was hoping we could get 3 dailys but i guess i should have just been happy with what we had. But AA will deffenly be hearing about this form me and many other top AA elites in the LIT area.

But back to LIT. United is going to start on sept 6. YES!!!! and then Frontier will be doing E-170 flights beginning Dec. 1st. Delta is back to 3 md-88 flights now. but i would much perfer a flight to JFK or LAX or a CRJ-900(first class cabbin) to SLC then an MD-88. but like i said, im going to be thankfull for what i have. I heard a rumor form my friends over at NWA that the CRJ-900 should be making an apperance in LIT by spring of 2008. Can we begin any 2008 predictions?

As for XNA. i think its a mystery. I doubt the college up there has anything to do with it. Who knows. But XNA is up to 1.2 mill a year i think. and LIT is up to 2.2 mill. And yes, untill we have any international flights, we should stay national.

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Im sorry, i was confusing Des Moines with Omaha for some reason. But im glad i wasnt totally wrong. I just read on Airliners.net that LIT-STL on AA will be ending December 12 i believe......check date but the flights will deffently be ending. Which really makes me mad because i try to advoid DFW and ORD like the plague. I dont understand STL and AA. It makes no since why they even have it in their system if thy dont even get good use of it. My idea would be to build up STL and use that as a reliever for the Cluster F@#k that is known as Chicago Ohare. I mean, im not sayint a 400 flt a day hub or even a 300 flt a day hub. but maybe like 250 with some reall service. But DAMN!!! that makes me mad. I was hoping we could get 3 dailys but i guess i should have just been happy with what we had. But AA will deffenly be hearing about this form me and many other top AA elites in the LIT area.

But back to LIT. United is going to start on sept 6. YES!!!! and then Frontier will be doing E-170 flights beginning Dec. 1st. Delta is back to 3 md-88 flights now. but i would much perfer a flight to JFK or LAX or a CRJ-900(first class cabbin) to SLC then an MD-88. but like i said, im going to be thankfull for what i have. I heard a rumor form my friends over at NWA that the CRJ-900 should be making an apperance in LIT by spring of 2008. Can we begin any 2008 predictions?

As for XNA. i think its a mystery. I doubt the college up there has anything to do with it. Who knows. But XNA is up to 1.2 mill a year i think. and LIT is up to 2.2 mill. And yes, untill we have any international flights, we should stay national.

Your comment about SLC (Salt Lake City) implies that Delta serves this with an MD8x, but isn't it all regional jet to that market from LIT?

The E-170 on Frontier...assuming this is still Frontier Express? Frontier is starting in Baton Rouge with mainline at the end of the year, which is very surprising except Baton Rouge has essentially adopted much of the traffic previously handled in New Orleans pre-Katrina...before that, service was relatively poor.

Also, regarding the rumor about CRJ-900 on NWA...that's fine if it is replacing Minneapolis or Detroit, but not Memphis since all service to MEM is currently mainline (A319 or DC9).

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Oh, my bad. i meant that Delta is up to 3 daily MD-88 to Atlanta. Trust me i know that SLC is on a regional jet. i have flown that route. 3 hours in a CRJ is hell, but at least its a 700 and not a 200. but i was just saying that i wish they would upgrade the SLC flight to a 900 which has a First Class cabin. Speaking of delta, Has anyone heard of them discontinuing the Orlando flight? I think its out of the schedule after November. Maybe this will pave the way for Airtran. And I did mean Frontier Express, but i consider the E-170 a mainline jet just because anything is mainline compared to a CRJ. I would love to see a A-318 on that route, but lets just hope it doesn't go the way of the Q-400. And as for northwest, i don't know what they are going to do. Trying to predict them is crazy. But i can tell you that my friend(the one who told me the rumor) said it would be to Detroit or Minneapolis and not Memphis. The mainline on that route should stay. Its crazy how you can have mainline on a 45 min flight but not an 2 hour and 45 min flight.

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Oh, my bad. i meant that Delta is up to 3 daily MD-88 to Atlanta. Trust me i know that SLC is on a regional jet. i have flown that route. 3 hours in a CRJ is hell, but at least its a 700 and not a 200. but i was just saying that i wish they would upgrade the SLC flight to a 900 which has a First Class cabin. Speaking of delta, Has anyone heard of them discontinuing the Orlando flight? I think its out of the schedule after November. Maybe this will pave the way for Airtran. And I did mean Frontier Express, but i consider the E-170 a mainline jet just because anything is mainline compared to a CRJ. I would love to see a A-318 on that route, but lets just hope it doesn't go the way of the Q-400. And as for northwest, i don't know what they are going to do. Trying to predict them is crazy. But i can tell you that my friend(the one who told me the rumor) said it would be to Detroit or Minneapolis and not Memphis. The mainline on that route should stay. Its crazy how you can have mainline on a 45 min flight but not an 2 hour and 45 min flight.

I sure hope your suspicion about the Orlando flight isn't true! I've flown it before, and in fact, there were two flights daily at one point. I'll have to admit, the tickets weren't cheap though!

I really doubt Airtran would come in...the legacy carriers have enough pressure from SWA. I (personally) wouldn't necessarily consider it a benefit.

Also, it is VERY strange that NWA maintains mainline on 30 minute flights! I'm not complaining...just surprised.

Lastly...why do so many people complain about CRJ's as opposed to ERJ's!?! The CRJ's have a 30% wider/taller fuselage (4 across as opposed to 3) - yet no one seems to complain about ERJ's.

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thank god! i do fly that route a lot and its not cheap. i felt like they could have used a bigger jet on that route, but im trying not to complain as much since i found out my STL flights are gone! UH!!! I think it was 2X daily prior to their filling for Bankruptcy, but it could have been a tag on flight that was suppose to go with those 2X daily to New Orleans. I think that its 2X daily on Saturday and 1X daily the rest of the week. But i hope your right. I also think thats true about Airtran. I find it interesting that southwest hasn't added a single flight out of LIT since the Addition of Baltimore back in 01 or 02. Theres talk of a Nashville flight. A DAL-LIT-BNA thing.

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thank god! i do fly that route a lot and its not cheap. i felt like they could have used a bigger jet on that route, but im trying not to complain as much since i found out my STL flights are gone! UH!!! I think it was 2X daily prior to their filling for Bankruptcy, but it could have been a tag on flight that was suppose to go with those 2X daily to New Orleans. I think that its 2X daily on Saturday and 1X daily the rest of the week. But i hope your right. I also think thats true about Airtran. I find it interesting that southwest hasn't added a single flight out of LIT since the Addition of Baltimore back in 01 or 02. Theres talk of a Nashville flight. A DAL-LIT-BNA thing.

I think SWA in general has been pretty stagnant, and in fact, if you haven't heard, they are quietly discontinuing their coast-to-coast service. They've been developing Denver as a "focus" city of sorts, but know that both Frontier and United serve Denver from LIT, I don't see SWA adding that at all (they did in OKC surprisingly).

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I sure hope your suspicion about the Orlando flight isn't true! I've flown it before, and in fact, there were two flights daily at one point. I'll have to admit, the tickets weren't cheap though!

I really doubt Airtran would come in...the legacy carriers have enough pressure from SWA. I (personally) wouldn't necessarily consider it a benefit.

Also, it is VERY strange that NWA maintains mainline on 30 minute flights! I'm not complaining...just surprised.

Lastly...why do so many people complain about CRJ's as opposed to ERJ's!?! The CRJ's have a 30% wider/taller fuselage (4 across as opposed to 3) - yet no one seems to complain about ERJ's.

I'm booked on one of those flights in early Sept so I sure hope it isn't true.

Flights are going to pick up a bunch this year and next because of traffic from Dassault, Welspun, and the Windmill plants.

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Theres talk of a Nashville flight. A DAL-LIT-BNA thing.

That would work both ways for LIT and BNA. BNA traffic has picked up on the DAL flights considerably in the last year and currently non stop flights are not allowed under the Wright Amend. from BNA to DAL. Plus, BNA would offer more connection choices for traffic out of LIT as BNA is a Southwest Focus City with mulitple connections north, east, south, and west daily.

Edited by Lexy

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