Update.......Little Rock National Airport.

[Architect]

Anyone know if Southwest ended up dropping LIT-PHX after year-end as was mentioned a little while back?

Nope, it’s still a scheduled flight. My parents are taking the direct LIT-PHX in a few months.


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[tmining]

On 10/31/2018 at 8:43 AM, Architect said:

By the way, I thought this had been shared on this forum, but I can't find it.  Frontier is adding direct service between Little Rock and Orlando...great sign in their confidence of the market to expand destinations.

Looks like this flight  has already been cancelled.  The last date available to purchase is 4/29 which also happens to be a few days before they start multiple other new flights around the country.  Based on the pricing, it seems like the flight was way under utilized. 

[Architect]

24 minutes ago, tmining said:

Looks like this flight  has already been cancelled.  The last date available to purchase is 4/29 which also happens to be a few days before they start multiple other new flights around the country.  Based on the pricing, it seems like the flight was way under utilized. 

You're saying the Frontier flight from LIT-MCO (Orlando)  has been canceled?  Are you sure about that?  It's only been active for a few months (it started November 16).  That would be surprising if true.

p.s.  Did a little research - very odd, as Frontier's site doesn't act like the LIT-MCO flight was EVER added.  On the route map, it shows, for example, service from Jackson, MS (JAN) beginning to Denver and Orlando in November, along with literally a hundred new routes, but no mention of LIT-MCO, nor does the route show graphically.  It was just announced a few months ago.  I wonder what happened?  I thought maybe it was seasonal, and though there are a lot of seasonal MCO flights, LIT isn't one of them.  Super strange.  Jackson doesn't have HALF the air service Little Rock has, but can support that route?

[tmining]

4 hours ago, Architect said:

You're saying the Frontier flight from LIT-MCO (Orlando)  has been canceled?  Are you sure about that?  It's only been active for a few months (it started November 16).  That would be surprising if true.

p.s.  Did a little research - very odd, as Frontier's site doesn't act like the LIT-MCO flight was EVER added.  On the route map, it shows, for example, service from Jackson, MS (JAN) beginning to Denver and Orlando in November, along with literally a hundred new routes, but no mention of LIT-MCO, nor does the route show graphically.  It was just announced a few months ago.  I wonder what happened?  I thought maybe it was seasonal, and though there are a lot of seasonal MCO flights, LIT isn't one of them.  Super strange.  Jackson doesn't have HALF the air service Little Rock has, but can support that route?

I have been following the route for awhile so that I could book it for my parents.  They never extended the schedule when all other routes where.  I felt the final confirmation came when the new routes were all announced for May 1st.  Since they never announced it was ending, they could bring it back again I guess but since they never raised there fares above $39, I cant believe that the flight were popular.  

[TomGufano]

I can confirm this route existed. I took my family to Orlando Dec 30th. We got one way tickets down for $49 ea. Return tickets were like $39. Flight was half full, but no less full than some of the big airlines I've seen. They did have an issue with seating... The back of the plane sells out bc it's cheaper, so the front of the plane is empty. For balancing, they had to reseat everyone, it was a mess. Nice plane, no freebies though (drink, snack, etc). When we were ready to come home, we decided to see if there was another flight a few days later & extend our Vaca. Return flights were only $25 on a Monday. Easy call for a family of 4, $100 + some fees. No need to change your original ticket, as there is a $75 change fee. It's Cheaper to rebook. 1hr 40 min flight time, you can't beat that. I hate to see this go...but it might resurface for the 2019 holiday season.

Edited January 23, 2019 by TomGufano

[Architect]

18 minutes ago, TomGufano said:

I can confirm this route existed. I took my family to Orlando Dec 30th. We got one way tickets down for $49 ea. Return tickets were like $39. Flight was half full, but no less full than some of the big airlines I've seen. They did have an issue with seating... The back of the plane sells out bc it's cheaper, so the front of the plane is empty. For balancing, they had to reseat everyone, it was a mess. Nice plane, no freebies though (drink, snack, etc). When we were ready to come home, we decided to see if there was another flight a few days later & extend our Vaca. Return flights were only $25 on a Monday. Easy call for a family of 4, $100 + some fees. No need to change your original ticket, as there is a $75 change fee. It's Cheaper to rebook. 1hr 40 min flight time, you can't beat that. I hate to see this go...but it might resurface for the 2019 holiday season.

Yes, I realize it existed and that it DOES exist.  I'm just flabbergasted that it wouldn't be renewed - it's only been available for 8 weeks or so.  It would seem premature to make a determination about a route in that short of a period.  That being said, I've never seen it advertised, which has arguably been a problem on past routes (example: I know LIT staff were frustrated with AA for not advertising the NYC route a few years ago, and they canceled it with 66% load factors!).

[Arkanzin]

Here's the link to the press release from Frontier.  It states the route was SEASONAL.  I guess season is the Christmas holiday period.  

 

Frontier Airlines Adds Six New Routes (September 12, 2018)

P.S.  Direct flights are still showing on Mondays and Fridays through April 30.    The direct flights disappear starting May 1 from what I can tell. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Arkanzin
Additional information

[Architect]

32 minutes ago, Arkanzin said:

Here's the link to the press release from Frontier.  It states the route was SEASONAL.  I guess season is the Christmas holiday period.  

 

Frontier Airlines Adds Six New Routes (September 12, 2018)

P.S.  Direct flights are still showing on Mondays and Fridays through April 30.    The direct flights disappear starting May 1 from what I can tell. 

Interesting.  However, when you go to Frontier's "live" flight info page, and select "Seasonal" routes, it doesn't show this flight.  It doesn't list Little Rock with any seasonal routes.  Furthermore, on the "route map" page, it also doesn't show the flight from LIT-MCO graphically either, though it does for other connections.  It's just strange.

I will note that in yesterday's DemGaz about year-end LIT traffic being up over 5% for 2018, it mentions the renewal of Frontier and then even the additional Orlando flight, and doesn't say anything about it being canceled.

[Architect]

Allegiant announced new seasonal, non-stop flights from Little Rock to Destin, Florida, twice weekly.

[theman]

Interesting article today on United Airlines and Clinton National. In February they were the #4 carrier at Clinton National with 17% of the business. An executive from the airline was here to talk about the growth in their existing service (around a 11% increase) and how they wanted to further increase service. He didn’t promise expansion to other hub airports outside of Houston, Denver and Chicago but he did talk about better connections at those hub airports and how they kept three flights per day to Chicago and Denver during the winter instead of dropping to two,

Another interesting fact from the article was that 77% of their flights leave here on 50 seat aircraft with only one seating option (no first class). On American only 4% of their flights leaving Little Rock are like that and on Delta none are.

The United exec said that Little Rock may not get larger aircraft with more seats but larger 50 seat aircraft that can have first class and economy.

If they want to grow their business here add direct flights to their Newark hub and one to LA. No one currently has direct flights to those areas outside of seasonal LA service on Alligient. I think there is enough leisure and business travel here to support at least one direct flight per day to those airports.

 

 

[ndark]

Thanks for sharing. I am exclusively an United business traveler due to their hubs, routes, and flight times compared to the other options. 

I had read they were moving to larger planes with more amenities in a national article some time ago but this is the first I have seen of it in relation to Clinton. I actually booked a flight yesterday and I changed my flight time to a less desirable one due to it being on an ERJ170 as opposed to an RJ145 just because of the first class option. But still no WiFi. I have actually been looking into switching over to AA due to this but may wait it out and see now. 

While I don't have a business need I would love a direct leisure option to NYC and I could use a direct occasionally to LAX. I know LR has had those routes before on the larger airlines but don't recall why they went away. I assume it came down to load and they just weren't filling the planes?  Maybe it was just seasonal? But I would imagine even if it was seasonal that if the planes we full it would have meant they made the service more permanent. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by ndark

[Architect]

6 hours ago, theman said:

Interesting article today on United Airlines and Clinton National. In February they were the #4 carrier at Clinton National with 17% of the business. An executive from the airline was here to talk about the growth in their existing service (around a 11% increase) and how they wanted to further increase service. He didn’t promise expansion to other hub airports outside of Houston, Denver and Chicago but he did talk about better connections at those hub airports and how they kept three flights per day to Chicago and Denver during the winter instead of dropping to two,

Another interesting fact from the article was that 77% of their flights leave here on 50 seat aircraft with only one seating option (no first class). On American only 4% of their flights leaving Little Rock are like that and on Delta none are.

The United exec said that Little Rock may not get larger aircraft with more seats but larger 50 seat aircraft that can have first class and economy.

If they want to grow their business here add direct flights to their Newark hub and one to LA. No one currently has direct flights to those areas outside of seasonal LA service on Alligient. I think there is enough leisure and business travel here to support at least one direct flight per day to those airports.

 

 

I read the article and was left confused...it talks about United's intention to increase marketshare, but the United rep goes on to be non-committal on either additional routes OR larger aircraft (which all of their competitors offer in LIT).  Soooo....going to increase marketshare by crossing your fingers?  Good luck with that.  Nobody wants to fly in your minivans.

[ndark]

28 minutes ago, Architect said:

I read the article and was left confused...it talks about United's intention to increase marketshare, but the United rep goes on to be non-committal on either additional routes OR larger aircraft (which all of their competitors offer in LIT).  Soooo....going to increase marketshare by crossing your fingers?  Good luck with that.  Nobody wants to fly in your minivans.

I just read it as nothing was confirmed so they couldn't say but it was in the future plans. Surely a senior UA rep wouldn't come to the airport talking about this stuff and not have some at least tentative plans for LR. But stranger things have happened. If it wasn't for a couple of specific cities I travel to frequently I would have already switched to AA.  And may still yet anyway. 

[Architect]

4 minutes ago, ndark said:

I just read it as nothing was confirmed so they couldn't say but it was in the future plans. Surely a senior UA rep wouldn't come to the airport talking about this stuff and not have some at least tentative plans for LR. But stranger things have happened. If it wasn't for a couple of specific cities I travel to frequently I would have already switched to AA.  And may still yet anyway. 

Yeah, sorry to be crass...I just felt like I wasted my time reading an article with a headline about plans for growth, yet no plans for growth.  I can't imagine what the airport commission must have thought after their meeting.

[Walls99]

9 hours ago, ndark said:

Thanks for sharing. I am exclusively an United business traveler due to their hubs, routes, and flight times compared to the other options. 

I had read they were moving to larger planes with more amenities in a national article some time ago but this is the first I have seen of it in relation to Clinton. I actually booked a flight yesterday and I changed my flight time to a less desirable one due to it being on an ERJ170 as opposed to an RJ145 just because of the first class option. But still no WiFi. I have actually been looking into switching over to AA due to this but may wait it out and see now. 

While I don't have a business need I would love a direct leisure option to NYC and I could use a direct occasionally to LAX. I know LR has had those routes before on the larger airlines but don't recall why they went away. I assume it came down to load and they just weren't filling the planes?  Maybe it was just seasonal? But I would imagine even if it was seasonal that if the planes we full it would have meant they made the service more permanent. 

There were many factors that led to LIT losing several routes (including but not limited to NYC) from main carriers.  The recession, repeal of the Wright Amendment (only affecting SWA out of DAL), and airline consolidation all converged at the same time and hit LIT pretty hard in the realm of air travel.  We lost Newark & Cleveland from Continental, Salt Lake City, Orlando, & Cincinnati from Delta, Houston-Hobby, Chicago-Midway, & Baltimore from Southwest, Minneapolis from Northwest, Kansas City from US Air, and New York-LGA from American.  Memphis was lost after Delta "de-hubbed" it when it was acquired from Northwest.

Though these route losses reflect on bleaker times, recent passenger boarding increases out of LIT have me very optimistic for our future.  Boardings have been up just about every month for the last two years putting LIT back on the rise towards the pre-recession boarding numbers.  I would be shocked if LIT does not see more routes from major carriers and/or increased plane size (maybe mainline in the case of AA to DFW) in the foreseeable future.  Although not included as one of the four major carriers, the successful return of Frontier with their relatively two new routes and Allegiant continuing to add new destinations shows promising signs for central Arkansas.  If United truly wants to grow their market share, they need to add routes to one (or more) of their major hubs in either Newark, LA, or San Francisco and/or upgrade current aircraft to E175s (as AA has done).  It would not be out of the realm of possibility to maybe take a larger market share here than Delta.  Delta has nearly a quarter of the traffic through LIT on effectively one route (90% of their passengers are to ATL with the other 10% are through DTW).  Delta seems to have neglected LIT with only one flight per day (very early in the morning) to a non-ATL hub on a CRJ and lack of convenient travel to the west with no routes to any of their hubs in SLC, LAX, or SEA.  American seems to be doing a better job of catering to the LIT market and are reaping the dividends by overcoming Delta to become the largest carrier by total passengers at LIT.  United could easily boost their numbers by doing the same things AA has: increase plane size allowing for more amenities to attract more passengers, increase flight schedules for more convenient travel times, and addition of new routes.

Personally, I would love to see some new routes out of LIT.  Our close proximity to Southwest's focus city of Nashville, as well as Southwest's legacy of success in LIT, would make a LIT-BNA route desirable. Lack of westward travel on Delta would make SLC, LAX, or SEA viable options.  Lack of any flights to NYC is not good, and I think United stands to benefit from revitalizing the LIT-EWR route.

[theman]

16 hours ago, Architect said:

I read the article and was left confused...it talks about United's intention to increase marketshare, but the United rep goes on to be non-committal on either additional routes OR larger aircraft (which all of their competitors offer in LIT).  Soooo....going to increase marketshare by crossing your fingers?  Good luck with that.  Nobody wants to fly in your minivans.

I felt the same way. Sounded like he wanted to increase market share on a wing and a prayer.

I’m flying on one of their minivans next week. Lol. I’m flying out of the country and they had the cheapest price. I usually try to fly AA or Southwest. Delta and United I fly the least but price was the determining factor for this trip.

[LRU1967]

American Airline announced that were opening 15 new gates at DFW and 100 new flights by American Eagle. How if any, will this affect LIT.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/05/03/american-airlines-opens-15-new-gates-dallas-fort-worth/1090020001/

[Architect]

American Airline announced that were opening 15 new gates at DFW and 100 new flights by American Eagle. How if any, will this affect LIT.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2019/05/03/american-airlines-opens-15-new-gates-dallas-fort-worth/1090020001/

American has substantial market share in LIT (in fact, where SWA used to dominate, Delta, AA and SWA are almost equal), yet somehow they ONLY fly regional jets that aren’t mainline. It’s actually mind boggling as Delta and SWA are virtually ALL mainline flights. A year or so ago, AA announced they were upgrading to mainline for some flights, but only temporary. I wonder when they’ll hit the threshold in LIT to make it permanent? I suppose the midsized E-175s (as opposed to the E-190s, which are mainline) have staved off use of the MD-80s or 737s.


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[Arkanzin]

In December, American Airlines is to start a daily, direct flight between XNA and MIA.

They will have daily, direct flights on AA to LAX and now MIA...

American Airlines to add flights

Edited May 10, 2019 by Arkanzin

[Architect]

1 hour ago, Arkanzin said:

In December, American Airlines is to start a daily, direct flight between XNA and MIA.

They will have daily, direct flights on AA to LAX and now MIA...

American Airlines to add flights

That's interesting, since they USED to have MIA flights.  I didn't know they stopped at some point.

[Architect]

LIT traffic is up nearly 10% year-to-date, with the biggest increases going to American (+18%) and then United (+13%).

[Architect]

Follow up: LIT tweeted yesterday that mainline American Airline flights are returning on select DFW flights!


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[theman]

This is why I don’t understand why LIT is not getting any expanded service. Look at XNA. In the last few months it has an announced expanded service on American to Philadelphia and Miami. Frontier also entered the market with flights to Denver. At LIT nothing. I know Walmart, Tyson, JB Hunt and the U of A drive a lot of business to that airport but it’s not like there aren’t any businesses driving passengers to LIT plus the leisure market here too. I just don’t get it.

[Architect]

This is why I don’t understand why LIT is not getting any expanded service. Look at XNA. In the last few months it has an announced expanded service on American to Philadelphia and Miami. Frontier also entered the market with flights to Denver. At LIT nothing. I know Walmart, Tyson, JB Hunt and the U of A drive a lot of business to that airport but it’s not like there aren’t any businesses driving passengers to LIT plus the leisure market here too. I just don’t get it.

I think your perspective is a bit circumstantial. Service is expanded not just through connections, but frequency of flights and upgraded equipment/larger aircraft. LIT has been awarded more of the later recently, but the former will also come in due time.


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[arky]

I tend to agree with both perspectives: service levels have definitely increased with more mainline aircraft, but it's well past time for LIT to start seeing better direct service. I tend to be an optimist but even I've been shocked by the level of growth in boardings at the airport over the last 18 months. 2018's growth was double that seen nationally and 2019 is 4x what is being seen nationally year to date. 

We need to see NYC daily service added. It's been available in the past, we can support it, but the hub strategy is killing us in this regard. Hopefully we'll see it added soon. 

I have little doubt a seasonal route somewhere to the panhandle of FL would have high traffic, though it doesn't seem to fit into the strategy of any of the larger players. Outside of NYC, what are the other potential routes that might make sense?