Dick Cheney in 1994 in explaining why we should not go into Iraq

[monsoon]

For those of you who have not seen this interview from 1994 where Cheney explained why we didn't take Baghdad in during the first Gulf War, why it would have been a disaster and why American lives were too valuable to waste on something such as this. Two things strike me about this. One is this video was not picked up by our corporate controlled media during the buildup to Gulf War II when Cheney was saying exactly the opposite. The other is that Americans were completely duped into re-electing this person back to office in 2004. We have become a nation of idiots given our ability to pick someone such as this to lead us.

[Plasticman]

It wouldn't open for me.

It should be noted that our media is controlled by the left. 87% of the Washington press corp are registered Democrats. NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, MSNBC, are all so left-slanted it is laughable to watch their news programs. The ridiculous left-wing spin they put on everything is blatently in-your-face.

In that light, I'll try to find the video on Youtube myself. If it is as hypocritical as you seem to elude, I'd have to say the press corp let a biggie slip by especially given their slant.

[monsoon]

It wouldn't open for me.

It should be noted that our media is controlled by the left. .

[Plasticman]

That simply isn't true. The media is controlled by corporations that are interested in maintaining the status quo and that status quo means a government that favors giving rights to corporations over individuals. During the lead up to war they all waved the American Flag and made people happy about Freedom Fries when they should have, instead, been rasing the red flag. Our media is so slanted to the right that most americans have no idea what "left" really means anymore.

In any case this is the link to the video if you can't get it to open above.

[Charlotte_native]

I notice that nobody is commenting on the video itself. lol

[Plasticman]

Metro has a point. I do need to watch the video to be fair.

[torgo]

If we're on the subject of politicians contradicting themselves, I seem to remember Bill Clinton carrying on and on about what a big threat Iraq was when he was president. Politicians say all kinds of things that don't make sense or seem contradictory years later due to different circumstances or just plain old petty politics. It seems foolish and ignorant to point to a something recorded thirteen years ago to make a silly point about Dick Cheney or the Bush Administration.

Invading Iraq in 1994 (or 1991) probably would have cost us many lives, maybe even more than the current occupation has. The point is that circumstances and geopolitics of the region have changed; the world does not exist in a vacuum. If you think Cheney is a dirty crook and a liar, then say so with proof that is relevant, instead of pointing to old videos and nonsensical conspiracy theories about some nefarious "right-wing" corporate media, especially when there is an overwhelming body of evidence that suggests the mainstream media is, generally, more liberal than conservative. I am by no means a fan of the Bush administration, but give me a break!

I agree with charlotte native that the media, while left-leaning, is probably after the almighty dollar more than anything else, so they love to get on board with scandalous nonsense, and they have with reckless abandon in the last few years. However, with everything under such a "no-spin" microscope these days, all of the media has to be a lot more fair to both sides than they ever have been before.

[monsoon]

^You are talking in generalities to cover very specific things that Cheney said about Iraq in 1994. In order to do so that would mean that you believe the story they were telling in 2001.

Do you think Iraq was significantly so different in 1994 vs 2001 that it warranted saying that Saddam wasn't a big enough threat to waste any American lives on, to going into a full scale war? I don't think so myself. However if you want to point out why this might not be so, then please do so.

[Gusterfell]

...especially when there is an overwhelming body of evidence that suggests the mainstream media is, generally, more liberal than conservative.

[MadVlad]

I seem to recall Clinton going on and on about Osama Bin Laden, not Saddam Hussein, and I also recall the GOP lambasting him for his obsession with Bin Laden.

[Plasticman]

Any links to said evidence? Yes, the majority of news reporters (the 87% Plasticman cited) consider themselves liberals, but reporters have zero editorial control and zero say over what stories get reported, and in what manner. Asserting that reporters control the media's stance is like claiming that factory workers control a manufacturer's product line. Those decisions are made by editorial staff, among whom Republicans are a sizeable majority.

If anyone believes the media is left-leaning, then please explain why the Monica Lewinsky non-scandal was front-page news for over a year. Please explain why, a few short years later, the Bush administration was given free reign to flout the law and lie to the public with very little comment form the media. The lies that led to the Iraq war were as obvious in 2002 as they are today, and the true liberal media was reporting that the Bush administration was wrong that early, as was the mainstream media in virtually every other country on earth. That is why the world's population was almost universally against the invasion. The case being made for war fell apart the second one looked beyond the administration's calims at the available facts, but few in the media botherd to do so.

The mainstream media in this country is decidedly centrist. If the news they report favors the left's position, it is because reality has a liberal slant. After all, the Bush administration has referred to liberals as the "fact-based community."

The closest thing this country has to a mainstream liberal media outlet is Air America Radio.

Here's plenty of reading material for anyone misinformed enough to believe that there is a liberal bias in American media.

[erdogs]

Gusterfell, you put up an obviously liberal website to prove your case. If you get enough like minded intelligent people together, you can spin the facts any way you want. You might as well use Rush Limbaugh to make the other side of the arguement.

Cheney and Bush have said many times that September 11 change their way of thinking. This has been hashed over numerous times in the past, nothing new here.

[Plasticman]

Ok I watched it so big deal. Cheney was correct given the circumstances and the allied position at the time.

[MadVlad]

Ok I watched it so big deal. Cheney was correct given the circumstances and the allied position at the time.

[monsoon]

Ok I watched it so big deal. Cheney was correct given the circumstances and the allied position at the time.

[monsoon]

If you post is not related to the video somehow and you have not watched it, I will delete it.

[Plasticman]

I am glad you finally watched it. I will point out that most of the thread drift, using your term, was because of your posts.

I find the video a sign of a man that will say anything to suit his needs at the time. It is interesting that everything he predicted that would happen in 1994 did happen in 2006 while everything he said in 2001 about the war was absolutely wrong.

[monsoon]

I don't get into the war of the news links for the most part and whether or not the surge is going anywhere depends upon the problem they are being asked to solve. We now have more troops in Iraq then ever before and yes it has helped to police down some of the violence. I will also note that much of the violence is being put down because Bush and company are arming the insurgents to fight Al Queda. This is the same broken policy that Bush Sr. used when they armed Al Queda in the first place to fight the Soviets.

But forgetting that, now what? 1000s are still dying each month, the Sunni's have resigned from the government, the Iraqi Parliment is on vacation, and 100 of thousands of middle class Iraqis are leaving the country leaving it in the hands of all the bad people.

There is no victory for us to be had by remaining in that country. Just death from a 1000 slow cuts. It is a quagmire just as Cheney predicted in 1994 and there is no answer. Bush and Cheney intend to keep us in there until they get out of office so the blame for the whole thing can be blamed on someone else. As for the Democrats agreeing about the surge, some of them are as stupid as the Americans that continue to support Bush and company.

[Plasticman]

I don't get into the war of the news links for the most part and whether or not the surge is going anywhere depends upon the problem they are being asked to solve. We now have more troops in Iraq then ever before and yes it has helped to police down some of the violence. I will also note that much of the violence is being put down because Bush and company are arming the insurgents to fight Al Queda. This is the same broken policy that Bush Sr. used when they armed Al Queda in the first place to fight the Soviets.

But forgetting that, now what? 1000s are still dying each month, the Sunni's have resigned from the government, the Iraqi Parliment is on vacation, and 100 of thousands of middle class Iraqis are leaving the country leaving it in the hands of all the bad people.

There is no victory for us to be had by remaining in that country. Just death from a 1000 slow cuts. It is a quagmire just as Cheney predicted in 1994 and there is no answer. Bush and Cheney intend to keep us in there until they get out of office so the blame for the whole thing can be blamed on someone else. As for the Democrats agreeing about the surge, some of them are as stupid as the Americans that continue to support Bush and company.

[Gusterfell]

I find the video a sign of a man that will say anything to suit his needs at the time. It is interesting that everything he predicted that would happen in 1994 did happen in 2006 while everything he said in 2001 about the war was absolutely wrong.

[Plasticman]

Cheny is not a stupid man. He knew what he was talking about in 1994, and he new that it was still relevent in 2001. He also knew that the American public has the attention span of a two-year-old when it comes to international politics and that his earlire interview would be forgotten. Cheney knew that this war would be a mess. He also knew that he and his cronies would make billions of dollars out of the mess. That is what the war was about. 9/11 changed nothing, as both Bush and Cheney were talking about invading Iraq at least as early as the 2000 presidential campaign.

Why is it that Republicans are allowed to completely reverse their public stance over the course of a decade, but if Democrats do it they are "flip-floppers?"

Yes, that website is liberal, but look at what it is claiming. Does it say the media are right-wing? No, overall the message is that the media are fairly moderate. Regardless, I shouldn't have to prove my case at all. The burden of proof lies on the accuser, namely those who claim the media are biased toward the left. You won't find anything to support that case unless you look at the likes of Limbaugh.

Look at Plasticman's response to my previous post. The best he can do to make his case is claim that the false pretense for the war is a "strawman" (even though this story has gone almost unreported by the mainstream American media), and that the Lewinsky scandal was such a big deal that "even the liberal media could not avoid it" (never mind that it became a big deal precisely because it received so much media attention). If you ask me, a liberal media would be far more inclined to cover a Republican president being dishonest about a war than a Democratic president lying (even under oath) about his sex life. Yet the coverage was much more harsh on Clinton than anything Bush has received, especially in the build-up to war.

The media's treatment of this Cheney video is more evidence that there is no liberal bias. Why is this video only coming out now, half a decade into the war? This video would have been an ideal rebuttal to the administration's case for war, yet where was it?. Do you really believe nobody in the mass-media conglomerate knew it existed? or is it more likely that the people calling the shots in the media didn't want it in the public eye.

Indeed, this video is nothing new to those who follow the (actual) liberal media. Such outlets have been talking about this video for six years now. Why is the "liberal" mainstream media only now "discovering" it?

[monsoon]

Then you are calling me stupid because I support some of what Bush and "company" (whoever that is) do. .....

[Plasticman]

You are saying that, not me, as I don't really know what you support. However in looking back through this thread, I get the impression that since you said you could never vote for a Democrat then you are left with coming up with a defense for the terrible mess that we now face at the hands of the people you did vote for. Dragging in Monica Lewinski and making 5 posts about not being able to see the video, IMO opinion are attempts to distract from what is going on here. That is in holding the President and VP responsible for the horrible mess they have made of this country, the war that wasn't needed, and the destruction of what it means to be American.

You said that you are a "conservative christian" in this thread which I guess pretty much sums up why you are voting for Bush so there really isn't much else to say. It's especially ironic however that IMO if Jesus was on this planet now, he most likely would be the first to condemn what Bush and company have done to this world in bringing death and destruction, when they had it in their power to do exactly the opposite.

If you don't have anything else to say about the video, then I assume you are gong to move on.

[Gusterfell]

The video does show Cheney doing an about face. I don't deny that. But we can't make it into a flip-flop or hypocrisy because the situations have changed since that time. So the title of this thread is appropriate in that Dick Cheney is explaining why we should not go into Iraq but the video has need for an asterick because it is based upon what was happening at the time.

[cityboi]

Its actually hilarious to watch that video because hes saying exactly what democrats are saying now