Northlake Mall

[derita1]

It really makes no sense to me, because a reason why they opened this mall was for the lack of retail in North Charlotte....and yet it is doing poorly? And in the death of Eastland Mall I dont see what is keeping NL from thriving? Poor highway connection? Lack of something new and too many repeats? Too expensive? Too cheap? TOo much crime? I dont get it

This racism kills me!! I was trying to objectively listen to everything you all are writing, but I am against straitjacted thinking. I resect every mans right to believe whatever his intelligence(or lack of)tells him is intellectually sound, and I expect everyone else to repect my right to believe likewise. I go to this mall twice a week, and it is packed every time I go . I have never seen crime or gangs at this mall, but I have at southpark. So please stop writing ignorance!!

[DigitalSky]

2 and a half years is not enough time to deadmall the place. If we're still scratching our heads about this mall after 485 is completed, then it's probably time.

I agree, It would be completely premature to call Northlake "dead" at this point. I hope to go to the mall in a few weeks.. I don't think I've been in 2 years!!

[monsoon]

This racism kills me!! I was trying to objectively listen to everything you all are writing, but I am against straitjacted thinking. I resect every mans right to believe whatever his intelligence(or lack of)tells him is intellectually sound, and I expect everyone else to repect my right to believe likewise. I go to this mall twice a week, and it is packed every time I go . I have never seen crime or gangs at this mall, but I have at southpark. So please stop writing ignorance!!

deritia1 we do respect your right to believe as you please but I note that it is you who is coming on there and accusing everyone of racism and un-intelligent writing because you don't seem to respect what others believe. If you are going to participate here, please leave the name calling and 'issues' at home and try to have this discussion in a polite manner amongst adults. This is the environment that we try to foster here, that is the type place where these kinds of misconceptions can be exposed on a forum of people that otherwise would never have a discussion with each other.

If someone says something that you think is wrong, then tell us why they are wrong. We are all more than willing to listen and understand.

[StevenRocks]

Oh whoever commented that this was not a mom and kid mall, just look over at the kiddy playground. Full of moms and kids and sometimes dads. Mostly the dads are in the sports court.

The question is whether these moms, dads and kids are actually shopping or utilizing the play area for an hour or two before they go to Target to spend their money. I think it's the latter.

[monsoon]

I think Northlakes problem is related to what we are discussing in this topic. It sits right in the middle of the crescent fromed by the large swath of homes being foreclosed in North & Northeast Charlotte. It's the culmination of a decade of really bad planning by the city of Charlotte and it's definitely, IMO, a contributor to the mall's struggles.

[MZT]

I was thinking the same thing when I saw that map in the paper. Most of the neighborhoods being slammed by foreclosures are just north of I-85 and south of future 485. This sounds a lot like what happened around Eastland. As neighborhoods become Section 8 rentals, it will get tougher to lure a healthy mix of retail to the mall.

How long before Burlington Coat Factory moves in? It's a harbinger of suffering malls!

Edited December 10, 2007 by MZT

[mallguy]

How long before Burlington Coast Factory moves in? It's a harbinger of suffering malls!

Yikes- I'd say that Northlake Dillard's must be struggling, as I rarely see people shopping at least in the men's section, and the store's location at the opposite end of the mall from the entrance closest to I-77 leads people to park elsewhere. That space could perhaps be one of the country's largest Burlington Coat Factory stores!

[Temeteron]

This racism kills me!! I was trying to objectively listen to everything you all are writing, but I am against straitjacted thinking. I resect every mans right to believe whatever his intelligence(or lack of)tells him is intellectually sound, and I expect everyone else to repect my right to believe likewise. I go to this mall twice a week, and it is packed every time I go . I have never seen crime or gangs at this mall, but I have at southpark. So please stop writing ignorance!!

There was nothing racist about what I said....and there have been some crime scenes there....but i was just throwing factors as to what might be reasons why it is struggling.

[mall_employee85]

This racism kills me!! I was trying to objectively listen to everything you all are writing, but I am against straitjacted thinking. I resect every mans right to believe whatever his intelligence(or lack of)tells him is intellectually sound, and I expect everyone else to repect my right to believe likewise. I go to this mall twice a week, and it is packed every time I go . I have never seen crime or gangs at this mall, but I have at southpark. So please stop writing ignorance!!

Ok if you go to this mall twice a week then I'm assuming you go either on either Friday, Saturday or maybe Sunday. They are not as packed as last year. If you'd go their from Monday - Thursday then you'd see the mall is empty. Also make sure your on the lower level. You may not see crime or gangs but go to the sports court area and stay there for a while. Their have been crimes at Northlake, they've even make it on Fox News @ 10pm. This is not ignorance because I've been working at this mall for 2 years now. And you don't need a business degree to figure out this mall sucks.

[mallguy]

Looks as if nearly all space in the mall is leased, albeit with some "urban" stores- and if Mint Hill gets its own mall, the Eastland crowd would maybe go to that one rather than Northlake. Is there no hope?

[StevenRocks]

Looks as if nearly all space in the mall is leased, albeit with some "urban" stores- and if Mint Hill gets its own mall, the Eastland crowd would maybe go to that one rather than Northlake. Is there no hope?

Nothing's impossible. But even if Eastland and Mint Hill took over Eastland's former market, there's still the little issue of the rapidly decaying suburbs around Northlake, the delays in getting 485 to the mall and the double threat of the Village at Lake Norman (reportedly with Saks) and Birkdale Village.

I hope they can pull it off.

[mallguy]

Well at least Northlake is owned by Taubman, which has a good track record with upscale malls; the only troubled ones I can think of that Taubman owns/owned are/were Willow Bend and Columbus City Center.

Wow, Saks at Lake Norman- I didn't know that!

[StevenRocks]

Actually, Taubman hasn't owned Columbus City Center in years. That mall was sold along with several others a few years ago.

Willow Bend is an example, like Northlake, of overestimating the market. It's a nice mall, but it's a little too much mall for that market.

My prediction is if the Village at Lake Norman opens, it will siphon off many, if not most, of Northlake's marquee retailers. As we've seen with other malls in similar situations, the department stores could basically carry Northlake, but a bunch of empty inline space wouldn't be a selling point, and could eventually lead to a plethora of no-name stores selling identical merchandise like Eastland has.

Edited December 13, 2007 by StevenRocks

[monsoon]

^That is what happened to the Tryon Mall years (well decades now) ago. The interior of the mall emptied out and only the outside big stores operated. It eventually got a reputation for being unsafe and even those stores closed. If it wasn't for the fact that it got redeveloped into the Asian Mall it would probably be an empty building by now.

[derita1]

A man is not in the world to set it right, but to see it rightly. So I call it the way I see it, any fool can criticize, condemn, or complain-and most fools do. But it takes character and selfcontrol to be understanding. PLEASE tell me how urban stores are a negative thing, I thougth this was a urban form. I live in highland creek about four miles away from northlake and I see no decaying.I go to to this mall during the week and and I see good crowds , like every mall in the country there is more people shopping on the weekends. So mall_employee85 if this mall sucks so much, go work at southpark or go get that business degree!!

[Neo]

A man is not in the world to set it right, but to see it rightly. So I call it the way I see it, any fool can criticize, condemn, or complain-and most fools do. But it takes character and selfcontrol to be understanding. PLEASE tell me how urban stores are a negative thing, I thougth this was a urban form. I live in highland creek about four miles away from northlake and I see no decaying.I go to to this mall during the week and and I see good crowds , like every mall in the country there is more people shopping on the weekends. So mall_employee85 if this mall sucks so much, go work at southpark or go get that business degree!!

This is your last warning, do not stoop to calling anyone a fool on these boards as it is not allowed per our rules. All forumers here have the right to their opinion just as you do. Opinion is far from fact as everyone here should know so just because you don't particularly agree with everyone else regarding Northlake and its issues you have absolutely no right to call your own opinion as fact. You are welcome to continue to express your opinion as long as you abide by our rules and keep your opinion as just that, your opinion.

[f0xym0p]

A man is not in the world to set it right, but to see it rightly. So I call it the way I see it, any fool can criticize, condemn, or complain-and most fools do. But it takes character and selfcontrol to be understanding. PLEASE tell me how urban stores are a negative thing, I thougth this was a urban form. I live in highland creek about four miles away from northlake and I see no decaying.I go to to this mall during the week and and I see good crowds , like every mall in the country there is more people shopping on the weekends. So mall_employee85 if this mall sucks so much, go work at southpark or go get that business degree!!

Everyone in this thread, including a mall employee, has noted the smaller than expected crowds at Northlake Mall, especially considering that we're in the holiday season. Sure, there are people shopping there and it isn't necessarily a dying mall yet, but it is clear that business isn't as good as it should be. The biggest reason I shop at this mall is because I can go there on a Saturday and it isn't overwhemingly crowded like Concord Mills and Carolina Place are--that is good for me but not good for the retailers. I can't understand why you would insist that this mall is doing well when it is clear to everyone else that it is not.

[StevenRocks]

PLEASE tell me how urban stores are a negative thing...

A typical urban store sells low-quality merchandise that tends to exaggerate cultural stereotypes at inflated prices. In the last few years, a number of chains have emerged that have tried to break the mold, but these are the exception.

[ncwebguy]

It's a slow Friday... usually I read the Charlotte forums to see what's going on, but for this I feel the need to post.

I have never been to NorthLake (yet) because I don't have any ties to that part of Charlotte. I spent too much time at Eastland in the early 80s and walked to Carolina Place a few times when they first opened (Dad lived off Park Road extension, the walk wasn't bad except 51 under 485).

Eastland was in the right place at the right time -- demographics of the area were good due to the tail end of white flight and mall shopping was catching on with everyone. As the neighborhoods around the mall declined, the stores in the mall followed suit when the mall owners did nothing to hold on to its existing customer base. The center court ice skating rink was a stroke of genius that attracted new transplants/carpetbaggers (including my family) from the north and midwest working for IBM, the banks, etc. It helped create a sense of place that was not present in uptown, the new strip malls, or the other mini-malls that popped up around the city.

Carolina Place was shiny and new when it first opened, and was a little ahead of its time. One family owned all that land as a farm, sold it parcel by parcel and never looked back. The newness quickly faded, and traffic dropped some, though you couldn't tell since driving around is a traffic nightmare. Like it or not, Ballentine saved Carolina Place (and the hospital helped), and indirectly the neighborhoods south of 51 west of there. For better or worse, it was always the mall of convenience for south Charlotte and just over the border South Carolinians. There were crime issues, but there was enough *shoppers* (not just browsers and/or loiterers) to justify enough rent to pay the bills and keep the lights on.

Higher end shoppers always went to South Park, but duplicating Eastland's tenant list was good enough, since Eastland and South Park were traffic-choked miles away. A lot of the original residents moved out, but it hasn't dropped the way North Charlotte has because foreclosures were few, if any. There was a good housing mix -- apartments/townhouses closer to 51, houses further back (though close to 485 now) and getting credit was a lot more difficult. Nearby big boxes (Best Buy, Toys R Us, K Mart, etc.) met (and continues to meet) the retail demands of the area.

North Lake, however, doesn't have any of the things going for it Eastland had in the early 80s or Carolina Place has today. If Birkdale or Concord Mills didn't exist, I'm pretty sure this conversation wouldn't happen. North Lake's sport court and play area, unlike Eastland's ice skating rink, can easily be duplicated in parks and driveways across Charlotte. If some of the neighborhoods around NL were well established when the mall opened and others came onlilne at a moderate pace, the mall could have had a similar path as Carolina Place did. It would eventually draw from the Lake Norman shoppers closer to the middle class and/or looking for a Birkdale/Concord Mills alternative. But the boom and now bust of a large strech of 85 corridor North Charlotte, as discussed in the thread Monsoon linked to earlier, was the worst possible thing that could have happened to the mall.

Anything *can* happen, but unless a large groundswell rises, things will get worse before they get better in the area. Foot traffic does not automatically equal shopper dollars most of the year, but from Thanksgiving through New Years, it usually does. Retailers make most of their money this time of year, and if the numbers aren't there now, they'll move elsewhere. Not this year or even next year, but as leases come up for renewal, they won't be extended if the future doesn't look positive.

The "urban" stores in North Lake don't sound like they're selling mass transit, higher density, etc. The term urban is used to describe the hip-hop lifestyle, but it also applies to a philosophy for the way cities opertate, land use, etc. which is covered by this message board.

[monsoon]

Higher end shoppers always went to South Park.....,

No not really. In the 1970s, South Park was a fairly modest place including such stores as Woolworths and by the middle 80s had become quite run down. Eastland was the mall of choice in those days especially after it's expansion in 1979.

[ncwebguy]

No not really. In the 1970s, South Park was a fairly modest place including such stores as Woolworths and by the middle 80s had become quite run down. Eastland was the mall of choice in those days especially after it's expansion in 1979.

The SouthPark/high end shoppers comment was more in context of Carolina Place's lifespan, not South Park's. By the time Carolina Place opened in the early 90s, South Park was on the way up, though not at the level it is today. I was moving a lot of thoughts around and didn't spell that out too well. i.e. "*Carolina Place's duplication of Eastland's then tenant list..."

When I lived in Charlotte in the early 80s, we ate a few times at the Woolworth's lunch counter/restaurant near the "escalator" center court, but did 75% of our mall shopping at Eastland. I missed out on mid-80s Charlotte due to being out of state.

I wanted to go to North Lake when it first opened, but my sister (who lives NW of the lake off NC 16) always wanted to go to Concord Mills, so we went there instead. I haven't been to Birkdale either, but hope to fix that one of these days.

[Temeteron]

i heard DEMO is closing all of its stores....if this is true then that is sad for urban wear fans, because i feel that that store is the best in that category....

[monsoon]

I note that Lowes has opened at Northlake. This place is shaping up to be one of the most congested parts of Charlotte.

[Andyc545]

I note that Lowes has opened at Northlake. This place is shaping up to be one of the most congested parts of Charlotte.

Wait until SuperTarget and Best Buy open up...

I admittingly have been using that Lowe's, it's very convenient for me and better than traveling into University City's traffic...

They also opened up that main road that loops around Lowe's and puts in a straight-away when leaving the mall.

[AuLukey]

future Northlake = Concord Mills Part 2